Author Topic: Trump speech at joint session of Congress  (Read 4020 times)

Offline Eric Hedman

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Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« on: 03/01/2017 04:09 AM »
Let the interpretation begin of the following line from Trump's speech tonight:

    "American footprints on distant worlds are not too big a dream."

Text of speech here:

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/321699-full-speech-president-trumps-address-to-a-joint-session

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #1 on: 03/01/2017 07:06 AM »
This was the night that I thought he may of announced his Kennedyesque moment for spaceflight. Well I guess it was not to be...
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Offline robertross

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #2 on: 03/01/2017 11:02 AM »
This was the night that I thought he may of announced his Kennedyesque moment for spaceflight. Well I guess it was not to be...

Although in reality: mentioning a Trillions dollars for infrastructure spending sort of 'Trumped' that.
(It would have to be one or the other, not both)

Perhaps he's planting the seed (or building the momentum for public opinion). I guess we have to wait for another speech.
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Offline Mr. Scott

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #3 on: 03/01/2017 11:19 AM »
There were much more significant moments in the speech last night.  In particular, the many there who have lost their loved ones through tragedy and defense of our nation. 

I took away that HSF is less of a priority than other topics being considered for an industry.  The "not too big of a dream" implies that it is possible, it also implies that there could be bigger dreams to consider.

Reenactments of the 60s do not seem to be this president's priority right now.  The priorities are what will get this nation's economy moving again... so perhaps when THAT occurs we will hear what we want.  Not before
« Last Edit: 03/01/2017 11:27 AM by Mr. Scott »

Offline Proponent

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #4 on: 03/01/2017 11:22 AM »
My big-picture take-away from the speech is that Trump wants tax cuts and lots of spending on the military, infrastructure, and all kinds of miscellaneous but big promises, none including space.  In other words, if Trump largely gets his way, it's going to be "Big deficits, here we come!"  That would would mean, sooner or later, wide-spread budget cuts.  Unless you believe the overall program is so good for the country that all sectors will benefit soonish, this is basically bad for government-funded or -subsidized civilian space efforts, unless they can be construed as infrastructure.

Offline Proponent

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #5 on: 03/01/2017 11:46 AM »
This was the night that I thought he may of announced his Kennedyesque moment for spaceflight. Well I guess it was not to be...

Although in reality: mentioning a Trillions dollars for infrastructure spending sort of 'Trumped' that.
(It would have to be one or the other, not both)

Perhaps he's planting the seed (or building the momentum for public opinion). I guess we have to wait for another speech.

I think we may be waiting a very long while for that speech.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #6 on: 03/01/2017 12:22 PM »
Claim speech was just too long and editted down:

Quote
A senior administration official also said references to NASA and space travel were dropped at the last-minute due to timing. "We wanted to keep the speech to an hour," this person said. Other details on taxes and border tariffs were also dropped to consolidate the speech, this person said.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-speech-backstory-235552

Offline IRobot

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #7 on: 03/01/2017 01:12 PM »
In other words, if Trump largely gets his way, it's going to be "Big deficits, here we come!"  That would would mean, sooner or later, wide-spread budget cuts. 
Usually there is a short term economy improvement from huge government spending, so if NASA major programs survive the initial cut, they can survive for 2-4 years.

Regarding the question if Trump will substantially increase or cut NASA's budget, I guess that as everything about Trump, it is mostly unpredictable.
But my gut feeling is that his ego and "make America great again" will push for an ambitious HSF plan, but that is not a priority for him on the upcoming months.

Offline spacenut

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #8 on: 03/01/2017 01:21 PM »
He said the infrastructure would be a combination of government and private.  I think this would mean toll roads or bridges to pay for new construction.  He might translate this to NASA also, using private companies like SpaceX, Blue Origin, or ULA for launch services to cut cost instead of SLS.  He is all for cutting costs, to shift money where needed.  If that means NASA should concentrate on an L1 station, the moon, or Mars, forget SLS, let private companies do a lot of the heavy work, use the money to actually get things done.  He did say he would cut 10% of the Federal work force and make it more  efficient like private industry. 

Offline yg1968

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #9 on: 03/01/2017 01:56 PM »
Let the interpretation begin of the following line from Trump's speech tonight:

    "American footprints on distant worlds are not too big a dream."

Text of speech here:

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/321699-full-speech-president-trumps-address-to-a-joint-session

The full context of that quote is important here:

Quote from: President Trump
Imagine the wonders our country could know in America's 250th year. [...]

American footprints on distant worlds are not too big a dream.

https://twitter.com/NASA/status/836775965653155843

Offline eric z

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #10 on: 03/01/2017 02:10 PM »
 Guys and gals, I think is a bit unrealistic to think he would have had a big space-policy announcement this time. The goal of the speech, IMHO, was to have everybody settle down a bit after such a [fill in your own blank] first month. I joked to the Mrs. it was a "Kinder, gentler" speech, and this morning I saw that phrase being used both on TV and the papers. After Newt's Perceived debacle about the Moon last cycle, the last thing needed yesterday was re-inflaming that one; too big a leap to go there with immigration, terror, etc. in one speech.
 That said, I think NASA should jump at the chance to have at least one flown crew-member on the Musk's moonshot, since I think the P/P Partnership concept is coming to dominate a new paradigm for space-exploration. Mr. Musk offered it to NASA- grab it, HQ! Then the silly pressure to fly the first "Moose" launch [as I like to call SLS] can revert to a test launch, and the programs' emphasis placed on very high value stuff, at a rate of at least 3-5 launches a year, in a major expansion of PPP exploration, leading to where all the factions can start coming together. "United we stand, divided we fall".
 PS, I apologize for misspelling a famous astronaut-hero of mine's name in a previous post- how lame of me!

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #11 on: 03/01/2017 02:14 PM »
The full context of that quote is important here:

Quote from: President Trump
Imagine the wonders our country could know in America's 250th year. [...]

American footprints on distant worlds are not too big a dream.

https://twitter.com/NASA/status/836775965653155843

Which implies just 9 years away (i.e. 2026).  That's less likely using the SLS and Orion (NASA has no Mars-specific hardware in development), but maybe he's thinking of partnering with Elon Musk on getting to Mars?

We know Trump gets "inspired" by things in front of him, and since Musk was in front of him once or twice maybe that is the source of it.  But otherwise I don't see Trump caring enough about sending government employees to another planet to use any of his "political capital" in Congress to get it funded.

Soaring rhetoric meant to "inspire", but no real intent - that's my takeaway.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline yg1968

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #12 on: 03/01/2017 02:29 PM »
I disagree. I think that there is intent. We'll find out more when he choses an administrator and when he presents a budget. Although the 2019 budget will have more of his stamp on it than the upcoming 2018 budget.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #13 on: 03/01/2017 02:33 PM »
If the president is smart he will leave NASA out of it and instead "showcase" what American private enterprise is capable of... (I'm referring to the study of putting a crew on EM-1)
« Last Edit: 03/01/2017 02:36 PM by Rocket Science »
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Offline yg1968

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #14 on: 03/01/2017 02:35 PM »
Here is a good article by Alan Boyle on Trump's speech:

http://www.geekwire.com/2017/trump-joint-session-speech-science-space-tech/
« Last Edit: 03/01/2017 02:38 PM by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Offline clongton

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #16 on: 03/01/2017 05:27 PM »
President Trump's reference to "American footprints on distant worlds [by 2026]" should be understood in the context of what it takes to get there, not in the event itself. In order for there to be American footprints out there by then there will need to be an awful lot of people employed doing technically impressive things in many and diverse places for most of the interim. Does that not seem to fit well with his stated goals to get America back to work doing inspiring things? I would look for reasonable funding for NASA with a new Administrator put in place to clean up the act and get things moving efficiently.

President Bush introduced the VSE and was unprepared for the onslaught of Congressional vitriol towards it that it caused. He folded his cards and went home. President Obama, in February 2010 attempted to kill CxP and was genuinely shocked at the way Congress reacted and rebelled. He did not have the gonads to fight them and let the Senate Launch System survive under a new name. I don't expect this President will fold so easily, if at all. What I do expect is for this President to actually support his new Administrator in ways that will get NASA back to work producing much more that 25 new power points and short film ads per month about the wonderful things it is going to do in the near future. No more photo ops and ad nauseam news stories about "oh look - we welded the seam". Those days are over. NASA hasn't had any real leadership for a while now, nobody willing to hold the contractor's feet to the fire and *demand* (and get) value for the money. I think that will change now once President Trump understands how utterly inefficiently the agency has been run for so long, and how utterly wasted the billions of dollars given it have been in terms of actual results. 2026 is not that far away, and it really will not take a herculean effort for those footprints to be real. What it will take is a constant effort, reasonably funded, steadily plodding along checking off one box after another, each one in its turn, until the results are in.  That is Donald Trump's style; one day at a time, all day, every day, non stop, sleep a few hours, get up and do it again, and again, and again, until it's done.

Fixing healthcare is important - expect lots of Presidential visibility.
Rebuilding the military is important - expect lots of Presidential visibility.
Annihilating ISIS is important - expect lots of Presidential visibility.
Fixing the Infrastructure is important - expect lots of Presidential visibility.
Reducing the *real* unemployment numbers is important - expect lots of Presidential visibility.
Reforming the tax code is important - expect lots of Presidential visibility.
Reforming the Immigration laws is important - expect lots of Presidential visibility.
But those aren't the only things he'll be doing, just the most visible.

Many other important things will be underway, with much less visibility, like a duck's feet underwater.
Those things will be experiencing the steady pace, feeling the burn like someone exercising, of constant, uninterrupted working toward a goal.
I expect NASA to be among those.

NASA will not be invisible to this President, just not among his highest priorities. But that should not be understood as not being important. NASA will get its funding. NASA will get its marching orders. And NASA will get a new Administrator who will actually do the job of actually administering. And NASA will not be abandoned to its own devices by this President as it has been for the last few Administrations.

I have (not personally) known Donald Trump for a many years. The man can't talk in public at all, frequently says dumb things, has no tact at all and he rambles and frequently goes off track - the teleprompters do (finally) help. But his mind is quick, sharp as a tack and incredibly efficient. And he has run all his affairs that way all his life. I cannot see him changing his style now - that just doesn't make any sense. But the office of President does shape the man. That is obvious from watching new Presidents for as long as I can remember, and Mr. Trump will be no exception. NASA will go thru a period of adjustment but will come out on the other side far better for it, as will the American Space Program. At least that is my read of this President. We will see if I am correct or not.
« Last Edit: 03/01/2017 05:55 PM by clongton »
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Offline spacenut

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #17 on: 03/01/2017 05:37 PM »
I see him spending MORE for SpaceX, ULA, or BO for launch services, as well as more for IN SPACE exporation.  He will probably cut SLS, and cut or transfer some things NASA is currently doing.  He views private companies as more efficient and can get more bang for the buck than a government mandated, designed, and built program. 

I don't see NASA money being cut, but money shifted and more privatized.  With more shift also to the military, the Air Force might spend some money for SpaceX to develop a Raptor based upper stage for F9/FH.  You guys have figured getting 70-90 tons to LEO with FH with a Raptor based upper stage.  Then, they might help develop an upper stage ACES based on the BE-3.  Two competitors, very good throw weight for both rockets.  This is not counting what New Glenn may do.  Then NASA can concentrate on an L1 lunar station to replace ISS, and/or develop Mars transportation, landing, and return craft for these rockets to launch and assemble in space.  The L1 station can help develop Lunar mining and manufacturing.  Tourism would be a side benefit. 

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #18 on: 03/01/2017 09:15 PM »
In order for there to be American footprints out there by then there will need to be an awful lot of people employed doing technically impressive things in many and diverse places for most of the interim.

I know there is an urge to draw a direct line from "Make America Great Again" to specific outcomes, but Trump has not offered enough information to draw those conclusions.  Trump is a high-end real estate developer, and he has no experience in manufacturing, education, or high tech.

Waving hands and saying "go do impressive things!" is not doing anything to help the entrepreneurs that have already been doing "impressive things".  I know a lot of tech entrepreneurs, and except for tax issues I've hear none of them say Trump is going to help them be better entrepreneurs.

Quote
Does that not seem to fit well with his stated goals to get America back to work doing inspiring things?

If I told you that you were not inspiring enough, what would you say?  Because that is what Trump is telling all entrepreneurs right now.  So to me it's an insult to say that we had to wait for Donald Trump to tell us to be "inspiring" in order for us to be "inspiring".  Entrepreneurs don't wait for anyone - that is their defining ability.

Removing roadblocks?  Sure, that is always helpful.  But I have yet to see evidence that $Billionaires will suddenly invest more in new companies because they get a few more billion in tax breaks.  Real entrepreneurs don't wait.

Quote
I would look for reasonable funding for NASA with a new Administrator put in place to clean up the act and get things moving efficiently.

If you compare NASA when Bolden took over to NASA when Bolden left you would find, per the GAO, that NASA programs are running more on time and on budget than they were when he took over.  If the next NASA Administrator can do as well, or better, then great.  But for what the NASA Administrator's job description is, Bolden did a good job, so I'm not sure what you mean by "clean up the act and get things moving efficiently."

If anything, the inefficient parts of NASA are mandated by Congress, so it will take an act of Congress to fix them.  That takes Presidential leadership, not the NASA Administrator, so it's on Trump to make that happen.

As to whether Trump can get NASA to do "inspiring" things, it requires above all an opportunity.  Kennedy had an opportunity with Apollo due to the confluence of the Space Race and the Cold War, and the Shuttle and ISS have been echo's of Apollo and the Cold War.

The Constellation program was an effort to leverage the emotion surrounding the Columbia accident, but that obviously was not enough to sustain it, and the SLS and Orion are echo's of the Constellation program.

So Trump will have to deal with a situation that would have been there regardless who was President, and I would not blame him if he didn't find something truly "inspiring".  There are no obvious next steps in space for the U.S. Government, since sending government employees into space doesn't stop ISIS, illegal immigrants, or fix ObamaCare.

If Congress doesn't fund any payloads or missions for the SLS and Orion they will die on their own after the next Presidential election, regardless who wins.  So in a way, absent some new "National Imperative", the private sector is poised to become the leader in space exploration.  In which case, NASA helping our private sector would seem to be the best course of action.

My $0.02
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline Endeavour_01

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Re: Trump speech at joint session of Congress
« Reply #19 on: 03/04/2017 12:21 AM »
Here is a response to Pres. Trump's space comment from the LA Times in the form of an anti-HSF hit piece.

http://www.latimes.com/business/lanews-michael-hiltzik-20130507-staff.html

Quote
"Trump's call for human space exploration is hugely wasteful and pointless"

The article irked me so much I had to write a lengthy response (see below).

Pt. 1:

I vehemently disagree with this article. It misleads the reader with incorrect budget numbers, displays a number of easily refuted arguments, and shows a lack of understanding about how technology is created.

1. Incorrect budget numbers

From the article: "A multitrillion-dollar program to put an American on Mars...."

This number is pulled out of a hat and is patently absurd. ALL NASA spending on HSF from 1957-2017 comes to around $0.5 Trillion. 60 years of HSF funding from Mercury to ISS doesn't even come close to "trillions." Landing a person on Mars won't cost nearly the same as 60 years of HSF funding.

Current estimates for a manned Mars mission range from the tens of billions to around $200 Billion (over 10-25 years). That is a drop in the ocean compared to what the government will spend during that time.

NASA's current budget is 0.5% of the US federal budget. Even if funding for HSF is tripled (which no one in power is suggesting) NASA would still have less than 1% of the budget.

Pt. 2

The article shows a lack of understanding about how technology is created. If all that was required to create a cure or a new technology was "pour money into it" we would have already cured cancer.

Many technologies and medicines we have today came about by accident as a result of someone trying to solve a totally different problem.

Human spaceflight is a great example of this. While the goal was to land on the moon the spinoffs from that program are central to our world today. The advancement in computers alone was worth the cost of the moon landing.

There are numerous examples of recent spinoffs including water purification, firefighting equipment, and much more. The data from STS-99, The Shuttle Radar Topography Mission, which I personally saw launch, is still used daily by scientists around the world. Research was recently done on the ISS on anti-biotic resistant bacteria. That is a huge problem that needs to be dealt with soon.

More in next comment.

« Last Edit: 03/04/2017 12:28 AM by Endeavour_01 »
I cheer for both NASA and commercial space. For SLS, Orion, Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy, Dragon, Starliner, Cygnus and all the rest!
I was blessed to see the launch of Space Shuttle Endeavour on STS-99. The launch was beyond amazing. My 8-year old mind was blown. I remember the noise and seeing the exhaust pour out of the shuttle as it lifted off. I remember staring and watching it soar while it was visible in the clear blue sky. It was one of the greatest moments of my life and I will never forget it.

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