Author Topic: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD  (Read 223281 times)

Online CraigLieb

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
  • Dallas Fort Worth
  • Liked: 672
  • Likes Given: 751
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1180 on: 02/06/2017 01:14 PM »
I was thumbing through the SpaceX presentation again today and threw the interior image of the spaceship into photoshop and cranked up the levels just to see what was in the details. Not much (the weird control panels are kinda cool), but fun to see an old image in a new light.

I imagine that the space taken up by the windows might be leveraged  as dual use (transparent windows when you want, and projection space/display wall when you need to view data, display for group discussions, and/or see insets of system status. I believe during much of the trip, this type of information will be more important than viewing where the ship is pointed. Even if they just leverage optionally opaque (electronic control) wall materials (e.g. conference rooms at SpaceX use this tech), it would be fairly easy to project onto the surface without a lot of added expense or weight.
Colonize Mars!

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2070
  • Liked: 213
  • Likes Given: 583
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1181 on: 03/16/2017 07:58 AM »
I didn't wanted to create a new thread

http://web.archive.org/web/20100605005320/http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=6104

Boeing space freighter, 1977. A massive lifter for Space Based Solar Power satellites.

Quote
The first stage was powered by rocket engines burning liquid oxygen with methane

How about that ?

I'm surprised nobody suggested to use ITS to lift SBSP satellite components.   8)


Online FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4245
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 2844
  • Likes Given: 950
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1182 on: 03/16/2017 07:29 PM »
A report on Buzz Aldrin's comments about Elon's plans from a South by Southwest panel on Tuesday:

https://www.inverse.com/article/29170-buzz-aldrin-elon-musk-mars-plans-bodacious

Offline Pipcard

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 432
  • Liked: 94
  • Likes Given: 92
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1183 on: 03/16/2017 08:17 PM »
I didn't wanted to create a new thread

http://web.archive.org/web/20100605005320/http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=6104

Boeing space freighter, 1977. A massive lifter for Space Based Solar Power satellites.

Quote
The first stage was powered by rocket engines burning liquid oxygen with methane

How about that ?

I'm surprised nobody suggested to use ITS to lift SBSP satellite components.   8)
I would, and I like the idea in theory (who doesn't want 24-hour clean energy, which also synergizes with frequent launches of super-heavy RLVs?), but then Musk would come in with his desire to "stab that bloody thing in the heart" because apparently the energy conversion rate is too low.
« Last Edit: 03/16/2017 08:23 PM by Pipcard »

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27022
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 6914
  • Likes Given: 4875
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1184 on: 03/17/2017 03:47 AM »
The article is misleading. SpaceX has said they want to extend their LEO constellation As the basis for Mars communication, relying on laser links. Shotwell made such comments.

And one of the main points of Red Dragon is to test ways to acquire water.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Online Bynaus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 398
  • Planetary Scientist
  • Switzerland
  • Liked: 268
  • Likes Given: 167
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1185 on: 03/17/2017 04:52 AM »
Also, Elon sees SpaceX as a transportation company - he never said that his was a plan for complete Mars colonization. Remember that the video stopped at the point where the doors open on Mars. He only builds the bridge. But he knows he needs others to build the city behind it.

Offline guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6377
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1605
  • Likes Given: 1410
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1186 on: 03/17/2017 06:44 AM »
Also, Elon sees SpaceX as a transportation company - he never said that his was a plan for complete Mars colonization. Remember that the video stopped at the point where the doors open on Mars. He only builds the bridge. But he knows he needs others to build the city behind it.

Watch his seattle speech.



Using revenue from the satellite business to build a Mars city. He tries usually not to push the idea he wants to do everything, that's why he cut this short and usually does. But he is preparing to go all out and do it himself because likely nobody will do it until he at least builds a healthy growing base.

Online Bynaus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 398
  • Planetary Scientist
  • Switzerland
  • Liked: 268
  • Likes Given: 167
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1187 on: 03/17/2017 09:33 AM »
He says in that video that the revenue will "help" fund a city on Mars. He never says he will do it on his own. In fact, he has repeatedly said in interviews that he sees SpaceX as being a transportation company - they provide the way, not the full thing. They can't do it all on their own, and if they have to, it will take much longer. They hope that once they can show there is a way, many will want to go, including the US government. So lowering the transportation costs will trigger life to become interplanetary.

Online tdperk

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 225
  • Liked: 70
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1188 on: 03/17/2017 11:23 AM »
I didn't wanted to create a new thread

http://web.archive.org/web/20100605005320/http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=6104

Boeing space freighter, 1977. A massive lifter for Space Based Solar Power satellites.

Quote
The first stage was powered by rocket engines burning liquid oxygen with methane

How about that ?

I'm surprised nobody suggested to use ITS to lift SBSP satellite components.   8)

It has been known for decades that a large SHLV that is built to a refuel/refly design can dramatically lower the cost to LEO.  This kind of design study is part of knowing that.

Here's hoping the ITS gets funded by someone, soon is better than later.

Offline cro-magnon gramps

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1470
  • Very Ancient Caveman
  • Ontario, Canada
  • Liked: 624
  • Likes Given: 4559
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1189 on: 03/17/2017 11:34 AM »
Also, Elon sees SpaceX as a transportation company - he never said that his was a plan for complete Mars colonization. Remember that the video stopped at the point where the doors open on Mars. He only builds the bridge. But he knows he needs others to build the city behind it.

Watch his seattle speech.



Using revenue from the satellite business to build a Mars city. He tries usually not to push the idea he wants to do everything, that's why he cut this short and usually does. But he is preparing to go all out and do it himself because likely nobody will do it until he at least builds a healthy growing base.

I'm with you on this. It's not just about the transportation bridge. Elon is building the companies and technology that will be needed to work on Mars. Tesla, Solar City, CommX, Boring Co., and I'm sure that he is preparing others we don't hear about, as well as links with other companies or people that will have technology components needed for a Mars Colony/Settlement. He isn't as secretive as others, but does keep some things close to the chest.

He probably won't fund the use of these, any more than he will self fund ITS tickets to Mars. But he will be available for hire. Once the initial base is proven feasible. 

Have a boring machine, 
       will bore you to tears,
              anywhere in the Solar System:D
"Hate, it has caused a lot of problems in the world, but it has not solved one yet." Maya Angelou
 Tony Benn: "Hope is the fuel of progress and fear is the prison in which you put yourself."

Offline guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6377
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1605
  • Likes Given: 1410
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1190 on: 03/17/2017 12:50 PM »
Nobody is going to invest on Mars, except Space Agencies, maybe large Univesities on grants. Not until Elon can show something substantial beyond transport. He needs to build a thriving settlement with probably a few thousand people, able to feed themselves and make habitats, plus of course the propellant to support a constant stream of ITS.

Only then he can hope others will start to build on that. He says the Satellite Constellation helps funding it, that's beside funding from SpaceX and his Tesla shares. Plus hopefully some of his philantropist billionaire friends. Business can come in only after that.


Offline cro-magnon gramps

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1470
  • Very Ancient Caveman
  • Ontario, Canada
  • Liked: 624
  • Likes Given: 4559
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1191 on: 03/17/2017 02:53 PM »
Nobody is going to invest on Mars, except Space Agencies, maybe large Univesities on grants. Not until Elon can show something substantial beyond transport. He needs to build a thriving settlement with probably a few thousand people, able to feed themselves and make habitats, plus of course the propellant to support a constant stream of ITS.

Only then he can hope others will start to build on that. He says the Satellite Constellation helps funding it, that's beside funding from SpaceX and his Tesla shares. Plus hopefully some of his philantropist billionaire friends. Business can come in only after that.

I don't disagree with your basic premise. The crunch comes with

WHEN WILL OTHERS FEEL COMFORTABLE INVESTING THEIR LIFE'S WORK ON A SCATTERBRAINED IDEA

Should Elon make a bundle with his CommX and Boring Co. (don't think they are tied to Tesla?) then he may be in the position of being able to fund his basic ITS system and a small (it's all relative ?) base on Mars, that would "INSPIRE" others to invest... I expect he is hoping that will happen... unless he of course makes a Trillion dollars off of CommX and Boring PDQ...

I don't see him using his Tesla Solar City shares to directly invest in Mars... just a technological transfer to Mars from those companies... he needs them to push his Earth ambitions... AI and Hyperloop, etc...
"Hate, it has caused a lot of problems in the world, but it has not solved one yet." Maya Angelou
 Tony Benn: "Hope is the fuel of progress and fear is the prison in which you put yourself."

Offline john smith 19

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6048
  • Everyplaceelse
  • Liked: 785
  • Likes Given: 4871
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1192 on: 03/17/2017 07:57 PM »

I don't disagree with your basic premise. The crunch comes with

WHEN WILL OTHERS FEEL COMFORTABLE INVESTING THEIR LIFE'S WORK ON A SCATTERBRAINED IDEA
I deeply resent the idea that "Musk Villas",( Gracious Living for the Extraordinarily Well Off") is at all scatterbrained  ;)

One day it will be seen as the cutting edge of warehousing codgers enlightened social care in a low (gravitational) impact, low humidity (or high if you need it), near sterile and crime free community.

Just as it's former staff who choose to stay on Mars will be seen as the founding fathers and mothers of "Muskville." :)
« Last Edit: 03/17/2017 07:59 PM by john smith 19 »
"Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry Spencer 1/28/11  Averse to bold? You must be in marketing."It's all in the sequencing" K. Mattingly.  STS-Keeping most of the stakeholders happy most of the time.

Online jpo234

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 586
  • Liked: 386
  • Likes Given: 57
« Last Edit: 04/21/2017 08:10 AM by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline su27k

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 666
  • Liked: 413
  • Likes Given: 38
The report: https://engineering.purdue.edu/AAECourses/aae450/2017/spring/docs/AAE%20450-Project%20Destiny.pdf

So for a 1 million people colony, total launch cost for 100 years is $1,311B to $1,489B, total colony infrastructure cost is $711B, per person cost is about $2M, annual cost is about $22B. By this estimate, NASA's ISS budget is enough to create a colony of 100k people on Mars in 100 years.

Offline Aussie_Space_Nut

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 160
  • South Australia
  • Liked: 43
  • Likes Given: 155
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1195 on: 04/22/2017 02:42 AM »
I really enjoyed reading this report. Obviously it was all about the engineering. I think the Environmental Control and Life Support Systems (ECLSS) could be further offset by making more of the basic habitat cylinders to create forests, grasslands and even lakes. You can then have animals & fish for food as well as providing a natural ECLSS system to augment the engineered system. I doubt you could ever replace the engineered version but perhaps you could radically reduce its load thereby extending its life. Humans take nature for granted, its all around us. Can we live well without it? I'm not so sure. With animal sources of protein we can have pets as well such as mans best friend the dog and cats as well. :-)

Offline llanitedave

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2098
  • Nevada Desert
  • Liked: 1275
  • Likes Given: 1474
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1196 on: 04/22/2017 05:52 AM »
I really enjoyed reading this report. Obviously it was all about the engineering. I think the Environmental Control and Life Support Systems (ECLSS) could be further offset by making more of the basic habitat cylinders to create forests, grasslands and even lakes. You can then have animals & fish for food as well as providing a natural ECLSS system to augment the engineered system. I doubt you could ever replace the engineered version but perhaps you could radically reduce its load thereby extending its life. Humans take nature for granted, its all around us. Can we live well without it? I'm not so sure. With animal sources of protein we can have pets as well such as mans best friend the dog and cats as well. :-)
Not cats, please, they would decimate the Martian bird populations.
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Offline Oli

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2123
  • Liked: 378
  • Likes Given: 55
The report: https://engineering.purdue.edu/AAECourses/aae450/2017/spring/docs/AAE%20450-Project%20Destiny.pdf

A fun read.

They should think about inducing Torpor to reduce the number of crewed ITS launches.
« Last Edit: 04/22/2017 06:18 PM by Oli »

Offline MickQ

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
  • Australia.
  • Liked: 45
  • Likes Given: 130
Re: Elon Musk IAC Mars Speech - Sept. 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1198 on: 04/23/2017 12:19 AM »
I really enjoyed reading this report. Obviously it was all about the engineering. I think the Environmental Control and Life Support Systems (ECLSS) could be further offset by making more of the basic habitat cylinders to create forests, grasslands and even lakes. You can then have animals & fish for food as well as providing a natural ECLSS system to augment the engineered system. I doubt you could ever replace the engineered version but perhaps you could radically reduce its load thereby extending its life. Humans take nature for granted, its all around us. Can we live well without it? I'm not so sure. With animal sources of protein we can have pets as well such as mans best friend the dog and cats as well. :-)
Not cats, please, they would decimate the Martian bird populations.

Plus you will never keep them out of the airlocks.   ( here we go again )

Offline Jcc

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 806
  • Liked: 176
  • Likes Given: 75
The report: https://engineering.purdue.edu/AAECourses/aae450/2017/spring/docs/AAE%20450-Project%20Destiny.pdf

A fun read.

They should think about inducing Torpor to reduce the number of crewed ITS launches.

This should really get a serious discussion in a separate thread. Not the torpor bit, but the Purdue plan as a whole.

Tags: