Author Topic: Ukrainian Cyclone 4 Launch Operations will be Established in North America  (Read 16953 times)

Offline starbase

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@spaceflight101 has a detailed article on this endeavour: http://spaceflight101.com/maritime-launch-services-selects-nova-scotia-launch-site/

Offline baldusi

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Here's the launch vehicle. LOX/Kero first stage derived from Zenit first stage, but using Ukrainian engines. This could be the RD-801, which is in development.

http://www.yuzhnoye.com/en/technique/rocket-engines/marching/rd-801/

That has a sea level thrust of 1199 kN. Four engines has a thrust of 4794 kN. Another engine in development is the RD-810.

http://www.yuzhnoye.com/en/technique/rocket-engines/marching/rd-810/

That has a sea level thrust of 1876 kN, giving a lift-off thrust of 7505 kN.

Look at the stats and compare the RD-801 with the Chinese YF-100 and the RD-810 with the Indian SCE-200. You are not going to convince me easily that those pairs are not related. I heard that the Ukrainians sold the blueprints for each and the Chinese and Indians had to develop the materials, models and certification process.

Offline gospacex

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Yuzhnoye is a government enterprise, and Ukrainian government is inefficient and worse, incredibly corrupt.
Klepto-politicians continue to pilfer public funds on a massive scale even while the war with Russia is ongoing.
Feeble attempts at "reforms" in economy, politics, judiciary, police, tax collection stalled. Now most people who tried to execute those reforms are fired.
GDP per capita is falling to nearly Africa-like levels.

I am trying to see how the idea with Cyclone-4 can possibly work in light of this environment... Maybe Canadians can privatize Yuzhnoye in its entirety?
« Last Edit: 03/15/2017 02:32 PM by gospacex »

Offline robertross

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Yuzhnoye is a government enterprise, and Ukrainian government is inefficient and worse, incredibly corrupt.
Klepto-politicians continue to pilfer public funds on a massive scale even while the war with Russia is ongoing.
Feeble attempts at "reforms" in economy, politics, judiciary, police, tax collection stalled. Now most people who tried to execute those reforms are fired.
GDP per capita is falling to nearly Africa-like levels.

I am trying to see how the idea with Cyclone-4 can possibly work in light of this environment... Maybe Canadians can privatize Yuzhnoye in its entirety?

Actually Canada & the Ukraine have reasonable close ties (mostly in opposition to Russian aggression on the world stage). We are often looking at ways to help & do business with the Ukrainians (while at the same time trying NOT to offend Russians). This is a reasonably sound way to do that.

(it's hard playing both sides of the fence,  but we certainly like to try)
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline Billium

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When I tweeted the link, a few Canadians responded with the potential of Churchill?

The only possibility would be Churchill, Manitoba, which is on the left edge of James Bay (close to our arctic area) in the center of our country.

Again, that is a potential non-starter these days due to indigenous people's land rights, and contamination due to hypergols.


(as for hypergols, its use on payloads 'might' get approval, but certainly not on the rocket's launch stages)

Just for interest, Churchill used to be our "spaceport" and we used to launch our sounding rockets out of there, and it has rail links (for the moment at least) and port (for the moment). We used to ship lots of grain out of Churchill too, I won't get into the politics of what is going on up there now, but they really are looking for some economic development.

Offline edkyle99

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Looks familiar.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline robertross

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When I tweeted the link, a few Canadians responded with the potential of Churchill?

The only possibility would be Churchill, Manitoba, which is on the left edge of James Bay (close to our arctic area) in the center of our country.

Again, that is a potential non-starter these days due to indigenous people's land rights, and contamination due to hypergols.


(as for hypergols, its use on payloads 'might' get approval, but certainly not on the rocket's launch stages)

Just for interest, Churchill used to be our "spaceport" and we used to launch our sounding rockets out of there, and it has rail links (for the moment at least) and port (for the moment). We used to ship lots of grain out of Churchill too, I won't get into the politics of what is going on up there now, but they really are looking for some economic development.

I know. I used to be a member of the High Power Rocketry Association.  ;)
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline russianhalo117

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Looks familiar.

 - Ed Kyle
except 4 chamber.engine version

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Looks familiar.

Cyclone 4M = edit: Florida Mayak-L
(the initially intended heavier variant of Antares, with a liquid upper-stage instead of Castor 30(XL))
I think it's very unlikely Cyclone 4M will use hypergolic propellants.

?4x RD-801?
« Last Edit: 03/16/2017 06:02 PM by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline russianhalo117

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Looks familiar.

Cyclone 4M = Mayak-L2
(the initially intended heavier variant of Antares, with a liquid upper-stage instead of Castor 30(XL))
I think it's very unlikely Cyclone 4M will use hypergolic propellants.

?4x RD-801?
possibly

Offline Danderman

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A LOX/Kerosene system flying over Hudson's Bay might work, but no bucks, no Buck Rogers.

Offline gospacex

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Yuzhnoye is a government enterprise, and Ukrainian government is inefficient and worse, incredibly corrupt.
Klepto-politicians continue to pilfer public funds on a massive scale even while the war with Russia is ongoing.
Feeble attempts at "reforms" in economy, politics, judiciary, police, tax collection stalled. Now most people who tried to execute those reforms are fired.
GDP per capita is falling to nearly Africa-like levels.

I am trying to see how the idea with Cyclone-4 can possibly work in light of this environment... Maybe Canadians can privatize Yuzhnoye in its entirety?

Actually Canada & the Ukraine have reasonable close ties (mostly in opposition to Russian aggression on the world stage).

Correct. Ukrainians and Canadians as nations are on friendly terms. No problem there.

The problem lies with Ukrainian individuals who are in charge of Yuzhmash. Just about any Ukrainian government enterprise is in bad financial shape (because management steals $$$) and therefore you can never be sure whether they'd execute their contractual obligations on time, on budget and with desired quality.
« Last Edit: 03/15/2017 11:14 PM by gospacex »

Offline robertross

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Yuzhnoye is a government enterprise, and Ukrainian government is inefficient and worse, incredibly corrupt.
Klepto-politicians continue to pilfer public funds on a massive scale even while the war with Russia is ongoing.
Feeble attempts at "reforms" in economy, politics, judiciary, police, tax collection stalled. Now most people who tried to execute those reforms are fired.
GDP per capita is falling to nearly Africa-like levels.

I am trying to see how the idea with Cyclone-4 can possibly work in light of this environment... Maybe Canadians can privatize Yuzhnoye in its entirety?

Actually Canada & the Ukraine have reasonable close ties (mostly in opposition to Russian aggression on the world stage).

Correct. Ukrainians and Canadians as nations are on friendly terms. No problem there.

The problem lies with Ukrainian individuals who are in charge of Yuzhmash. Just about any Ukrainian government enterprise is in bad financial shape (because management steals $$$) and therefore you can never be sure whether they'd execute their contractual obligations on time, on budget and with desired quality.

Well I don't foresee that to be a problem for the launch site, only the launch customers.

This is only about jobs for the local people (and maybe some revenue) - nothing more.
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Possibly some future for AR-1

Offline russianhalo117

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Looks familiar.

Cyclone 4M = Mayak-L2
(the initially intended heavier variant of Antares, with a liquid upper-stage instead of Castor 30(XL))
I think it's very unlikely Cyclone 4M will use hypergolic propellants.

?4x RD-801?
possibly
Anatoly Zak reports per his industry sources that first stage is using a version of RD-120 (Four modified RD-120 engines known in Ukraine as RD-810): http://russianspaceweb.com/tsyklon4m.html
« Last Edit: 03/16/2017 06:40 PM by russianhalo117 »

Offline The man in the can

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Ukrainian Tsklon-4M coming to Canada?
« Reply #55 on: 03/19/2017 09:30 PM »
From Anatoly Zak : http://www.russianspaceweb.com/tsyklon4m.html

As a Canadian I was surprised to read this!  :o
« Last Edit: 03/19/2017 09:31 PM by The man in the can »

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Ukrainian Tsklon-4M coming to Canada?
« Reply #56 on: 03/19/2017 09:36 PM »
Great news for Nova Scotia! :)
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Basically 4 single axis gimballed RD-120 derivatives with indigenous production.

Offline ChamberPressure

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New details about the proposed launch site and operations: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/canso-rocket-launch-pad-space-port-control-centre-rail-track-1.4065566

Also, it looks like it's confirmed the C4M will be using 4 RD-870 kerolox engines in the first stage (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/rd870.html), and 1 RD-861K engine with N2O4/UDMH propellants in the second stage.

Offline Alter Sachse

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