Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-S1-0024) Reuse Testing Coverage  (Read 61925 times)

Offline edkyle99

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #20 on: 07/29/2016 02:17 PM »
So much for talk of a series of test firings gradually building up duration! (At least I assume news would have leaked if there had been multiple firings already?)

Of course we don't know the extent of any refurbishment yet but still an impressive achievement. Feels like booster re-use just took another large step forward :D
There are test firings nearly every day at McGregor, of individual engines and of first and second stages.  Sometimes there are multiple test firings in a single day within a few hours time.  (McGregor may be the world's busiest "rocket laboratory" right now.)  SpaceX could have, and almost certainly did, perform at least one short test firing of this stage before the full-duration burn.  That is standard practice for new stage certification as I understand the process.

I too wonder how much of this stage is "new".  The interstage looks to be new, for example.  The real question is about the engines.  What was the extent of their refurbishment and were any even completely replaced?

 - Ed Kyle   
« Last Edit: 07/29/2016 02:26 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #21 on: 07/29/2016 02:41 PM »
So much for talk of a series of test firings gradually building up duration! (At least I assume news would have leaked if there had been multiple firings already?)

Of course we don't know the extent of any refurbishment yet but still an impressive achievement. Feels like booster re-use just took another large step forward :D
There are test firings nearly every day at McGregor, of individual engines and of first and second stages.  Sometimes there are multiple test firings in a single day within a few hours time.  SpaceX could have, and almost certainly did, perform at least one short test firing of this stage before the full-duration burn.  That is standard practice for new stage certification as I understand the process.

I too wonder how much of this stage is "new".  The interstage looks to be new, for example.  The real question is about the engines.  What was the extent of their refurbishment and were any even completely replaced?

 - Ed Kyle   

I was thinking the same question on the engines.  If engines have been changed, are they from other recovered cores?

SpaceX is certainly a fun company to watch.
I know they don't need it, but Crossfeed would be super cool.

Offline Kansan52

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #22 on: 07/29/2016 03:01 PM »
My guess is very little was done to this stage except examination and some refurb like thermal blankets. Basing this on the idea of "fly then fly again" with as little done as possible.

Offline schaban

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #23 on: 07/29/2016 03:10 PM »
The interstage looks to be new, for example. 

why it is grey then?

Online abaddon

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #24 on: 07/29/2016 03:10 PM »
I too wonder how much of this stage is "new".  The interstage looks to be new, for example.
The completely black interstage looks to be new?  Am I missing something?

Offline LastStarFighter

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #25 on: 07/29/2016 03:31 PM »
I too wonder how much of this stage is "new".  The interstage looks to be new, for example.
The completely black interstage looks to be new?  Am I missing something?

I think his point was the interstate looks to be black now and not the light grey it was after landing (seen during transport). So they either painted it black or replaced it with an unpainted one (perhaps an unpainted structural test article). I would think the latter is more logical. As to why they would do that in not sure. Perhaps they saw cracks in the carbon fiber or they are reusing that interstage (or pieces of it) on an upcoming flight.

Or maybe the contrast in this video makes the interstage look way darker than it really is... Who knows

Offline edkyle99

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #26 on: 07/29/2016 03:34 PM »
Or maybe the contrast in this video makes the interstage look way darker than it really is... Who knows
Some fine photos by "McGregor watchers" in L2 show that it is unpainted and jet black, probably just bare carbon composite.  On the other hand, some bits (aero covers) do appear to be original.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 07/29/2016 03:39 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline LastStarFighter

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #27 on: 07/29/2016 03:47 PM »
Or maybe the contrast in this video makes the interstage look way darker than it really is... Who knows
Some fine photos by "McGregor watchers" in L2 show that it is unpainted and jet black, probably just bare carbon composite.  On the other hand, some fairing bits (aero covers) do appear to be original.

 - Ed Kyle

I agree... It looks completely different. Is this what the structural test articles (used during certification) looked like? Perhaps this interstage was already outfitted with strain gauges to test the axial load they are putting on the vehicle during the simulated flight. I think it was mentioned that beefy cap was designed to be able to apply flight like loads to the booster during the test? Maybe I misheard

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #28 on: 07/29/2016 03:48 PM »
I too wonder how much of this stage is "new".  The interstage looks to be new, for example.
The completely black interstage looks to be new?  Am I missing something?

Yes... the completely black interstage is new... it doesn't appear to be painted and it's not covered in soot.

Offline chrisking0997

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #29 on: 07/29/2016 03:53 PM »
perhaps it just has something to do with the fixture on top
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Offline guckyfan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #30 on: 07/29/2016 03:58 PM »
I too wonder how much of this stage is "new".  The interstage looks to be new, for example.
The completely black interstage looks to be new?  Am I missing something?

Yes... the completely black interstage is new... it doesn't appear to be painted and it's not covered in soot.

It is quite possible, that they have just removed the cork coating. The clamp that connects to a second stage does not look new.

Online Semmel

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #31 on: 07/29/2016 05:28 PM »
So much for talk of a series of test firings gradually building up duration! (At least I assume news would have leaked if there had been multiple firings already?)

Of course we don't know the extent of any refurbishment yet but still an impressive achievement. Feels like booster re-use just took another large step forward :D
There are test firings nearly every day at McGregor, of individual engines and of first and second stages.  Sometimes there are multiple test firings in a single day within a few hours time.  (McGregor may be the world's busiest "rocket laboratory" right now.)  SpaceX could have, and almost certainly did, perform at least one short test firing of this stage before the full-duration burn.  That is standard practice for new stage certification as I understand the process.

I too wonder how much of this stage is "new".  The interstage looks to be new, for example.  The real question is about the engines.  What was the extent of their refurbishment and were any even completely replaced?

 - Ed Kyle   

They re-fire this stage because it is heavily damaged from a GTO launch. They want to know if it still works. If it works, there is a good chance that the less energetic launches can be relaunched. Changing much of the parts defies this purpose. Therefore, I would assume that only really broken parts after inspection are exchanged. If the engines for example were so damaged that they had to be replaced, the purpose of the test would be compromised. It wouldn't tell anything about the re-usability of other first stages.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #32 on: 07/29/2016 06:04 PM »
So much for talk of a series of test firings gradually building up duration! (At least I assume news would have leaked if there had been multiple firings already?)

Of course we don't know the extent of any refurbishment yet but still an impressive achievement. Feels like booster re-use just took another large step forward :D
There are test firings nearly every day at McGregor, of individual engines and of first and second stages.  Sometimes there are multiple test firings in a single day within a few hours time.  (McGregor may be the world's busiest "rocket laboratory" right now.)  SpaceX could have, and almost certainly did, perform at least one short test firing of this stage before the full-duration burn.  That is standard practice for new stage certification as I understand the process.

I too wonder how much of this stage is "new".  The interstage looks to be new, for example.  The real question is about the engines.  What was the extent of their refurbishment and were any even completely replaced?

 - Ed Kyle   

They re-fire this stage because it is heavily damaged from a GTO launch. They want to know if it still works. If it works, there is a good chance that the less energetic launches can be relaunched. Changing much of the parts defies this purpose. Therefore, I would assume that only really broken parts after inspection are exchanged. If the engines for example were so damaged that they had to be replaced, the purpose of the test would be compromised. It wouldn't tell anything about the re-usability of other first stages.

I disagree. They swap engines all the time, I think this was also about making sure the structure would work as expected.

Offline LucR

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #33 on: 07/29/2016 06:31 PM »
I too wonder how much of this stage is "new".  The interstage looks to be new, for example.  The real question is about the engines.  What was the extent of their refurbishment and were any even completely replaced?

If anything much was done to the engines, wouldn't that invalide the results of the testing for "life leader" purposes (as stated by Elon), since this is the JCSAT-14 booster?

Offline rst

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #34 on: 07/29/2016 07:32 PM »
I think his point was the interstate looks to be black now and not the light grey it was after landing (seen during transport). So they either painted it black or replaced it with an unpainted one (perhaps an unpainted structural test article). I would think the latter is more logical. As to why they would do that in not sure. Perhaps they saw cracks in the carbon fiber or they are reusing that interstage (or pieces of it) on an upcoming flight.

Or maybe the contrast in this video makes the interstage look way darker than it really is... Who knows

Trick of the light is one possibility.  Another is that the original interstage was removed for independent structural tests.

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #35 on: 07/29/2016 07:32 PM »
They re-fire this stage because it is heavily damaged from a GTO launch. T
It is not "heavily damaged". It experienced the most damaging environment during return (because of the high energy orbit). That does not mean it was "heavily damaged". In fact several statements from SpaceX deny that it was "heavily damaged".

Online The Roadie

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #36 on: 07/29/2016 09:50 PM »
Facebook group member Keith Wallace reported ANOTHER full duration test just now. Another $200,000 worth of propellant consumed for our amusement!
« Last Edit: 07/29/2016 10:51 PM by The Roadie »
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Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #37 on: 07/29/2016 10:27 PM »
Facebook group member Keith Wallace reported ANOTHER full duration test just now. Another $200,000 worth of propellant consumed for our amusement!

$200,000 a day can turn into real money. 

Will be very interesting to see how many they end up doing. 
I know they don't need it, but Crossfeed would be super cool.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #38 on: 07/29/2016 10:51 PM »
Wow. Whatever the refurbishment between recovering the stage and yesterday's test, I think we can be pretty confident there was little change since yesterday!

IIRC Elon has suggested SpaceX is aiming for something like 10 flights per engine with minimal work required. Not expecting them to get to 10 with this stage, as they may hit an unexpected limiting factor, but my guess is that's the number they're working towards. I'd guess at least a couple more tests with this stage, which would suggest at least a couple of re-uses per stage is well within bounds. That feels to me like minimum confidence needed for a customer to commit to a first re-use.
« Last Edit: 07/29/2016 10:52 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Online Johnnyhinbos

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SpaceX Falcon 9 (F9-0024-S1) Reuse Testing Coverage
« Reply #39 on: 07/29/2016 11:10 PM »
Facebook group member Keith Wallace reported ANOTHER full duration test just now. Another $200,000 worth of propellant consumed for our amusement!

$200,000 a day can turn into real money. 

Will be very interesting to see how many they end up doing.
10...?

(Meaning Elon had stated they were going to test fire a returned stage ten consecutive times. He didn't indicate specific duration, just quantity)
« Last Edit: 07/29/2016 11:12 PM by Johnnyhinbos »
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