Author Topic: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?  (Read 310960 times)

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #180 on: 11/17/2016 04:24 pm »
Are there termination penalties in the contract if NASA is directed to cancel those contracts abruptly? 

There are always termination clauses, although I don't think that the government accepts "penalties." They usually agree to pay some kind of contract closeout costs.

But in this case, assuming that it happened, it would not happen in the way of contract termination. Contracts just would not be renewed, or options would not be exercised.

Offline Jim

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #181 on: 11/17/2016 04:40 pm »
Not really keen on discussing specific politics too closely but... Elon went on record with some not very complimentary things about Trump just prior to the election. That may cause some repercussions, which kind of squares with what QuantumG is saying.

So isn't the question, what are SpaceX's major contracts with the US Govt?

CRS-1, CRS-2 and CCtCap.

Are there termination penalties in the contract if NASA is directed to cancel those contracts abruptly? 

NLS and CCP

And the gov't can't just terminate one contractors.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2016 04:41 pm by Jim »

Offline Brovane

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #182 on: 11/17/2016 05:01 pm »
Are there termination penalties in the contract if NASA is directed to cancel those contracts abruptly? 

There are always termination clauses, although I don't think that the government accepts "penalties." They usually agree to pay some kind of contract closeout costs.

But in this case, assuming that it happened, it would not happen in the way of contract termination. Contracts just would not be renewed, or options would not be exercised.

Thank you that make sense and also what Jim said below, they cannot just terminate one contractor.

However it seems like there is a fairly limited ability for Trump to negatively impact current SpaceX contracts, regardless of what Elon has said about him.
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #183 on: 11/17/2016 07:29 pm »
However it seems like there is a fairly limited ability for Trump to negatively impact current SpaceX contracts, regardless of what Elon has said about him.

I think that is true over the short term, less over the long term. If he or his designates don't like a company, they can find ways to harm that company's government contracts. But it would not be simple or straightforward to do that.

The federal procurement system (including that FAR that so many people here hate) is set up to prevent that kind of thing from happening. The United States government still operates under the rule of law, no matter who is in power (actually, because anybody could be in power). The way it could happen is by canceling the programs that require those contracts. So, for instance, shut down the ISS program and cargo and crew is no longer required. But that's killing a fly with a sledgehammer--not easy to do.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #184 on: 11/17/2016 09:55 pm »
And so are you.  There is no evidence that Spacex is an Obama darling.  Obama's visit to SLC-40 does not count.  That was driven by the presence of LH2 tanks on SLC-41 and SLC-37.

Umm.. the evidence that SpaceX, and Elon in general, are considered an Obama darling by the folks who are about to be in the White House is on websites that I'd rather not link to on this forum. If you haven't seen it, you may be living in a bubble.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Brovane

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #185 on: 11/17/2016 10:17 pm »
And so are you.  There is no evidence that Spacex is an Obama darling.  Obama's visit to SLC-40 does not count.  That was driven by the presence of LH2 tanks on SLC-41 and SLC-37.

Umm.. the evidence that SpaceX, and Elon in general, are considered an Obama darling by the folks who are about to be in the White House is on websites that I'd rather not link to on this forum. If you haven't seen it, you may be living in a bubble.

The presumption that Elon is a Obama darling is driven by the amount of subsidies that his companies have received.  Those website leave out several key-facts, which they don't like to reminded of.  They are typical conspiracy theory hacks that think that anybody in "Green Energy" is a Obama darling.  Forgetting that when jobs are involved the support for "Green Energy" cuts across party lines.

•   COTS was started by the Bush 43 Administration, Obama administration just continued to support the program.
•   Solar Incentives was signed into law during the Bush 43 Administration and has wide-spread bi-partisan support.
•   Solar Incentives was just renewed until 2019 with bi-partisan support.
•   Several Republican Governors were offering Musk with incentives to get the Giga-factory built in their state.
•   Even EV incentives have strong bi-partisan support and are company agnostic. 


Didn't Obama and Musk have one single photo op together?  The Obama visit to LC-40?







"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #186 on: 11/17/2016 11:18 pm »
They are typical conspiracy theory hacks that think that anybody in "Green Energy" is a Obama darling.  Forgetting that when jobs are involved the support for "Green Energy" cuts across party lines.

Not to put too much of a fine point on it, but who exactly do you think is going to be in the White House next year?

Why is it that everyone seems happy to point out that NASA's earth observation program is likely to be gutted next year, but somehow Elon Musk is safe? How? It's paint-by-numbers obvious that he's in big trouble with this administration.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Blackstar

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Offline eric z

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #188 on: 11/18/2016 12:09 am »
  Frank Culbertson! Heavy-duty Shuttle Commander with long-duration and EVA experience; awesome management chops displayed during Shuttle/Mir era; and he seems to be doing great at Orbital/ATK. Plus he displays his love for outer space and his insider-knowledge in a very personable way- I think he could bring the various factions together and get them all in on the Plan.
 I think the community needs to be able to all pull together--and yes, Moon-Asteroids-Mars-GG Moons and on to the Tombaugh Pluto Station. Let NASA loose for once. Think how cool it will be. First step has to be shoring up all our assets and getting the most out of them; not cancelling SLS/Orion but beefing them up schedule and capability-wise. Frank would be great for this. IMHO, of course!

Offline Brovane

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #189 on: 11/18/2016 02:21 am »
They are typical conspiracy theory hacks that think that anybody in "Green Energy" is a Obama darling.  Forgetting that when jobs are involved the support for "Green Energy" cuts across party lines.

Not to put too much of a fine point on it, but who exactly do you think is going to be in the White House next year?

Why is it that everyone seems happy to point out that NASA's earth observation program is likely to be gutted next year, but somehow Elon Musk is safe? How? It's paint-by-numbers obvious that he's in big trouble with this administration.

So how exactly is a Trump Administration going to impact SpaceX? 

Well CRS1 and CRS2 contracts already awarded to SpaceX and as Jim already said, the US Government cannot just cancel the contract for one of the contractors.

CCP contract, once again the US Government cannot just cancel the contract for one of the contractors.

So the only way that the Trump administration could seriously impact SpaceX would be to tell NASA to cancel all COTS contracts (Which impacts not just SpaceX) and basically the US would abandon the ISS.  Do you seriously think that Congress would go along with that?  You have valuable valuable contracts for OrbitalATK, ULA and Boeing that are part of COTS.  The COTS contract are the major source of revenue from the US government for SpaceX.  However the Trump administration cannot easily select SpaceX as a target because Trump doesn't like Musk. 

The Trump administration would also have difficulty impacting FAR contract awards that are competitive bid to deliberately steer contracts away from SpaceX.  The FAR rules make it difficult for this type of direct political meddling  especially in competitively bid space launch contracts.  Even if SpaceX started loosing US Government launch contracts, it has a healthy backlog of private commercial contracts. 

The biggest danger to SpaceX is failing is not the Trump Administration, it is SpaceX itself.  They have to prove they can reliably launch without having to do a RTF every year. 

So what exactly has Musk done that makes you think he is a big target for the Trump Administration? 

"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #190 on: 11/18/2016 03:37 am »
Threatened Russia's revenue stream of RD-180s, commercial Proton/R7 launches, and ISS crew seats?
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline Jim

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #191 on: 11/18/2016 11:27 am »
And so are you.  There is no evidence that Spacex is an Obama darling.  Obama's visit to SLC-40 does not count.  That was driven by the presence of LH2 tanks on SLC-41 and SLC-37.

Umm.. the evidence that SpaceX, and Elon in general, are considered an Obama darling by the folks who are about to be in the White House is on websites that I'd rather not link to on this forum. If you haven't seen it, you may be living in a bubble.


Those websites are making the same bad assumptions based on the SLC-40 visit.

Offline incoming

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #192 on: 11/18/2016 02:15 pm »
As said upstream, the normal flow is everyone at the top hands in the resignation by the time the President-Elect becomes President. They President can ask them to stay on, stay on until a new person in confirmed, or accept the resignation.

The deputy steps in when the resignation is accepted.

The NASA drama when President Obama's first term began was extraordinary. Michael Griffin had a semi-public shouting match with a member of President Obama's transition team. After that shouting match, Griffin's wife began a social media campaign to save Griffin's job as NASA Administrator. He stopped the campaign the same day saying he did not want the job.

Then person after person was suggested as the new Administrator. The deputy ran the department until Bolden was confirmed nearly a year later.

Some of this is incorrect.  The deputy is also a political appointee, and will resign along with the rest of the politicals.  The President could of course chose not to accept her resignation.  But she also could chose not to serve Donald Trump. 

Assuming Dava departs, which seems most likely, Robert Lightfoot, the Associate Administrator and top civil servant, will run the agency until a new administrator and deputy administrator are confirmed.  This is consistent with the last transition, where Chris Scolese, then AA, ran the agency until Bolden and Garver were nominated and confirmed. 

Offline Brovane

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #193 on: 11/18/2016 03:15 pm »
Threatened Russia's revenue stream of RD-180s, commercial Proton/R7 launches, and ISS crew seats?

Let's not overstate the relationship between Putin and Trump. 
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline Danderman

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #194 on: 11/20/2016 02:25 pm »
The question on the table is who will be the next NASA administrator. Keith Cowing is guessing either Bridenstine or Pace.

Offline Wayne Hale

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #195 on: 11/21/2016 06:33 pm »

Just to be picky:  the first A in NASA stands for Aeronautics, the S stands for Space. 

Picking for Administrator a retired 'flag officer' who knows  nothing about the agency, space, or how to run an executive agency would not be my personal first choice . . . .

Offline Brovane

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #196 on: 11/22/2016 02:49 pm »
Threatened Russia's revenue stream of RD-180s, commercial Proton/R7 launches, and ISS crew seats?

Let's not overstate the relationship between Putin and Trump.
Is that even possible? ???

When you start implying that Trump is; against US launch providers taking launch business away from the Russians, in favor of continued dependency on the RD-180 for DOD payloads and in favor of continued dependency on the Russians for astronaut transport to the ISS.  You are venturing into the realm of wacky conspiracy theory conjecture.  So yes, let's not overstate the relationship between Putin and Trump.   
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline okan170

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #197 on: 11/22/2016 03:37 pm »
A front-door secret meeting yes.  At this point, it seems pretty futile to speculate until we hear any official news.  The transition situation is sort of chaotic and it seems NASA is a bit down the priority list.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #198 on: 11/22/2016 03:37 pm »
Threatened Russia's revenue stream of RD-180s, commercial Proton/R7 launches, and ISS crew seats?

Let's not overstate the relationship between Putin and Trump.
Is that even possible? ???

When you start implying that Trump is; against US launch providers taking launch business away from the Russians, in favor of continued dependency on the RD-180 for DOD payloads and in favor of continued dependency on the Russians for astronaut transport to the ISS.  You are venturing into the realm of wacky conspiracy theory conjecture.  So yes, let's not overstate the relationship between Putin and Trump.
The matter of engines that you brought up didn't even cross my mind and is the least of my concerns about their bromance...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline Brovane

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Re: Who should be the next NASA Administrator?
« Reply #199 on: 11/23/2016 01:42 am »

The matter of engines that you brought up didn't even cross my mind and is the least of my concerns about their bromance...

It certainly crossed "Robotbeat" mind.

« Last Edit: 11/23/2016 01:43 am by Brovane »
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

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