Author Topic: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3  (Read 101726 times)

Offline yg1968

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #160 on: 03/01/2017 02:16 PM »
NASA quitely announced that it bought Soyuz seats for 2017 and 2018 from Boeing last week:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/additional-crew-flights-boost-space-station-science-and-research/

Does that mean Boeing will fly that many fewer Commercial Crew missions because NASA paid them off for them?

NASA already ordered 6 post-certification missions from each provider. So that still stands.

Offline rockets4life97

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #161 on: 03/02/2017 12:18 AM »
Does an Atlas V/Vulcan and a Starliner have the capability to do a moon flyby as recently announced for the FH and Crew Dragon?




Offline Lars-J

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #162 on: 03/02/2017 01:20 AM »
Does an Atlas V/Vulcan and a Starliner have the capability to do a moon flyby as recently announced for the FH and Crew Dragon?

CST-100 seems to be a bit heavier (13-14mt?), and Atlas V with 5 boosters only has a capacity of ~9mt to GTO (TLI requires more delta-v), so I don't think so.

Offline arachnitect

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #163 on: 03/05/2017 01:39 PM »
IIRC, Boeing said CST is not designed for BEO missions, in particular it lacks a lunar return capable heatshield.

Related: not clear to me if CST-100 has positive power balance with the solar array "mission kit" installed. This thing is pure LEO taxi.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #164 on: 03/07/2017 07:08 AM »
IIRC, Boeing said CST is not designed for BEO missions, in particular it lacks a lunar return capable heatshield.

Given enough money, I'm sure Boeing could design a Lunar capable heat shield for CST-100.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline The man in the can

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« Last Edit: 03/10/2017 09:07 PM by The man in the can »

Offline The man in the can

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #166 on: 03/10/2017 09:08 PM »

Offline arachnitect

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #167 on: 03/11/2017 01:57 AM »
Really enjoyed this video, especially how they handled the audio. Much more fun to listen to the wind and hardware than some lame voice-over.

Hope the tests continue to go well.

Offline woods170

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #168 on: 03/11/2017 02:45 PM »
Really enjoyed this video, especially how they handled the audio. Much more fun to listen to the wind and hardware than some lame voice-over.

Hope the tests continue to go well.
Agreed. Much more fun to enjoy this than the fancy PR stuff. Hardware being put to the test is a much better sight than some talking head.


Offline larmeyers

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #170 on: 03/13/2017 01:51 PM »
Apologies if this is an old topic, but is there any info regarding why Starliner needs to jettison its heat shield (at 4,500 ft)?  Am I correct that both Dragon 2 and Orion will land with theirs?  thanks...

Online yokem55

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #171 on: 03/13/2017 02:30 PM »
Apologies if this is an old topic, but is there any info regarding why Starliner needs to jettison its heat shield (at 4,500 ft)?  Am I correct that both Dragon 2 and Orion will land with theirs?  thanks...
It probably has to do with being able to deploy the airbags and allow for a slower touchdown.

Offline Roy_H

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #172 on: 03/13/2017 03:34 PM »
Apologies if this is an old topic, but is there any info regarding why Starliner needs to jettison its heat shield (at 4,500 ft)?  Am I correct that both Dragon 2 and Orion will land with theirs?  thanks...
It probably has to do with being able to deploy the airbags and allow for a slower touchdown.
That and there are rocket nozzles for slowing down just before landing. These nozzles are blocked by the heat shield.
Orion lands in water and Dragon has their rockets on the side so they do not need to jettison their heat shields.
« Last Edit: 03/13/2017 03:42 PM by Roy_H »
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Offline Roy_H

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #173 on: 03/13/2017 03:47 PM »
I am surprised that the Russian made RD180 engines are still an issue. All the plans for making them were delivered many years ago at the start of the contract. They have proven to be highly reliable, so what is the issue?
"If we don't achieve re-usability, I will consider SpaceX to be a failure." - Elon Musk

Offline baldusi

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #174 on: 03/13/2017 07:27 PM »
I am surprised that the Russian made RD180 engines are still an issue. All the plans for making them were delivered many years ago at the start of the contract. They have proven to be highly reliable, so what is the issue?
ITAR and the equivalent Russian laws. Any exchange requires an inquire for each set of questions. And you can get fined even from asking a question that might divulge that you know something that's not common knowledge. Besides, they had not all the data. Some things like anti corrosion treatment on the nozzle were not included. And the whole Russian system engineering is very different from the US. So asking for their paper trail to match NASA's expectations is a gruesome prospect.

Offline Prettz

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #175 on: 03/13/2017 11:33 PM »
I am surprised that the Russian made RD180 engines are still an issue. All the plans for making them were delivered many years ago at the start of the contract. They have proven to be highly reliable, so what is the issue?
ITAR and the equivalent Russian laws. Any exchange requires an inquire for each set of questions. And you can get fined even from asking a question that might divulge that you know something that's not common knowledge. Besides, they had not all the data. Some things like anti corrosion treatment on the nozzle were not included. And the whole Russian system engineering is very different from the US. So asking for their paper trail to match NASA's expectations is a gruesome prospect.
Why would NASA need to know such details as those in order to declare an engine man-rated? Why is what they already know not enough?

Offline su27k

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #176 on: 03/14/2017 04:18 AM »
Article on chutes and ASAP worrying about RD-180:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/03/chute-tests-starliner-asap-worry-rd-180-certification/

It would be nice if there's an explanation of what "SureSep separation ring" is and what it separates...

Offline brickmack

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #177 on: 03/14/2017 03:58 PM »
Article on chutes and ASAP worrying about RD-180:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/03/chute-tests-starliner-asap-worry-rd-180-certification/

It would be nice if there's an explanation of what "SureSep separation ring" is and what it separates...

I believe it is this https://www.google.com/patents/EP0273061A1?cl=en&dq=Vincent+Noel&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAp-Lgt9bSAhUU4mMKHew8AkoQ6AEIGjAA. McDonnel Douglas had "SureSep" trademarked around this time, and I found mention of a Vincent Noel involved in that project, he's listed as an inventor on this patent. Boeing probably acquired it with the rest of McDonnell Douglas and kept the name.

Now, on what is actually being separated. This shows what is apparently a SureSep test unit, and it looks to have a fairly large diameter, so I'd guess its the interface between Atlas and Starliner, or the CM and SM, or heat shield and CM structure. This guys LinkedIn lists him as being involved in both SureSEP testing and the Starliner-Atlas interface, so I'd wager its for that connection
« Last Edit: 03/14/2017 03:59 PM by brickmack »

Offline arachnitect

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #178 on: 04/03/2017 04:05 AM »
Some twitter videos. Anyone got a good tool/process for scraping and archiving this kind of stuff?

Video of Crew Access Arm test (swinging back into position in a hurry)

https://twitter.com/AKolomiets/status/844279239289593860

Testing the slidewire escape system:

https://twitter.com/BoeingDefense/status/848679836247871490

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #179 on: 04/03/2017 05:55 AM »
Quote
United Launch Alliance Completes Crew Emergency Egress System
ULA and Terra-Nova Zipline provide NASA and commercial astronauts with safe, new generation egress option 

Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla., (April 2, 2017) – The final test of the Emergency Egress System (EES) was conducted recently, signifying the completion of another United Launch Alliance (ULA) milestone supporting NASA’s Commercial Crew Program. The EES was developed in support of Boeing’s Starliner crew capsule and is a means of rapid egress for astronauts in case of an anomaly.

“ULA is absolutely focused on the safety of the crews we will be supporting, and, although we hope to never use it, we are excited to announce the Emergency Egress System is fully operational,” said Gary Wentz, vice president of Human & Commercial Services. “Through our partnership with Terra-Nova, a company that designs and builds zip lines for recreational use, a modified, off-the-shelf product has been designed and constructed to meet our needs and reduce costs, while maintaining reliability and safety.”

The egress cables are situated on level 12 of the Crew Access Tower (CAT), 172 feet above the Space Launch Complex 41 pad deck at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, and will allow the crew to evacuate the CAT quickly to a landing zone more than 1,340 feet from the launch vehicle. The EES can accommodate up to 20 personnel, including ground crew and flight crew.

Terra-Nova, LLC (makers of the ZipRider® Hybrid) offered a commercially developed EES based on their “off-the-shelf,” patented designs. The ZipRider was easily adaptable to ULA’s specific needs, while offering an unmatched safety record, and providing the best overall value.

In just 30 seconds, the rider reaches top speeds of 40 mph. The riders control their speed by releasing pressure on the handles, with the ability to glide to a gentle stop at the landing zone. There are 30 feet of springs on each cable located in the landing area to gradually slow a rider down if they forget to brake. Terra-Nova will install a training system located north of the CAT for riders to practice on before final training on the operational EES. 

The Boeing Company is developing Starliner and selected ULA’s Atlas V rocket for human-rated spaceflight to the International Space Station. ULA’s Atlas V has launched more than 70 times with a 100 percent mission success rate.

“Crew safety is paramount, and the ULA Emergency Egress System hits the mark for an effective yet simple system that is adapted from other commercial applications,” said Chris Ferguson, Boeing director of Starliner Crew and Mission Systems and a former NASA astronaut. “We look forward to spaceflight operations next year knowing that every measure to protect the flight and ground crew has been employed."

With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation’s most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 115 satellites to orbit that aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, unlock the mysteries of our solar system, provide critical capabilities for troops in the field and enable personal device-based GPS navigation.

http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-completes-crew-emergency-egress-system.aspx

Edit: add 4th picture showing handles used to control descent speed
« Last Edit: 04/03/2017 06:03 AM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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