Author Topic: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles  (Read 166221 times)

Online oiorionsbelt

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #20 on: 12/30/2015 02:43 AM »
Ease of use, gas n' go, fast turn around say don't wash it if you don't have too.
 MCT will not be washed before return. OK that's just a guess.
« Last Edit: 12/30/2015 04:07 AM by oiorionsbelt »

Offline sanman

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #21 on: 12/30/2015 03:54 AM »
I guess the slipstream at terminal velocity isn't enough to get rid of all the soot. Isn't there a trick from the painting industry, whereby they can use electro-statics to charge airborne particles and either repel or attract them from a surface? Presumably it's during that re-entry plasma heating phase that the soot is being deposited. So couldn't the surface of the fuselage be charged to repel the soot so it won't deposit? I know, I know - it's not a crucial concern - but just a thought.


Offline KelvinZero

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #22 on: 12/30/2015 05:15 AM »
People may be prematurely celebrating the end of the expendable era.. They may soon be nostalgic for the age of brand spanking shiny new rockets. Should we really celebrate spaceflight joining the modern age of sooty vehicles, shitty inflight service, vandalised seats adorned with chewing gum.. something unidentifiable and sticky.. and the smell of wee?  :)

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #23 on: 12/30/2015 06:51 AM »
People may be prematurely celebrating the end of the expendable era.. They may soon be nostalgic for the age of brand spanking shiny new rockets. Should we really celebrate spaceflight joining the modern age of sooty vehicles, shitty inflight service, vandalised seats adorned with chewing gum.. something unidentifiable and sticky.. and the smell of wee?  :)
Yes.

If it substantially lowers the $/lb to orbit.  :)
"Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry Spencer 1/28/11  Averse to bold? You must be in marketing."It's all in the sequencing" K. Mattingly.  STS-Keeping most of the stakeholders happy most of the time.

Offline gospacex

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #24 on: 12/30/2015 01:31 PM »
People may be prematurely celebrating the end of the expendable era.. They may soon be nostalgic for the age of brand spanking shiny new rockets. Should we really celebrate spaceflight joining the modern age of sooty vehicles, shitty inflight service, vandalised seats adorned with chewing gum.

All these are signs of a well-matured industry :)


Offline llanitedave

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #25 on: 12/30/2015 05:50 PM »
"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid."
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Offline sanman

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #26 on: 12/30/2015 07:17 PM »
I wonder how long it will be until there's a "used spaceship" market? Or maybe the term "pre-owned" would sound better.

But seriously, I'd like to know how extensively the various construction materials and components have been tested for "cycle life".  It's one thing to expect your O-ring to flex properly during one launch, but after how many launches will it give out?

Is cycle life something that's normally tested for in the rocket industry?
« Last Edit: 12/30/2015 07:21 PM by sanman »

Offline meekGee

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #27 on: 12/30/2015 10:09 PM »
I wonder how long it will be until there's a "used spaceship" market? Or maybe the term "pre-owned" would sound better.

But seriously, I'd like to know how extensively the various construction materials and components have been tested for "cycle life".  It's one thing to expect your O-ring to flex properly during one launch, but after how many launches will it give out?

Is cycle life something that's normally tested for in the rocket industry?

Things like thermal stresses during tank/detank operations are always considered.  Even an EELV may go through several.  But SpaceX needs more than "several". 

But - seriously - do you really doubt that they're only now getting to it?    It may not be "normal" in the rocket industry, but it sure took place with Shuttle, and it sure takes place in the aircraft, shipbuilding and car industries. (and many others, of course)
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Offline Kansan52

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #28 on: 12/30/2015 10:18 PM »
I wonder how long it will be until there's a "used spaceship" market? Or maybe the term "pre-owned" would sound better.

But seriously, I'd like to know how extensively the various construction materials and components have been tested for "cycle life".  It's one thing to expect your O-ring to flex properly during one launch, but after how many launches will it give out?

Is cycle life something that's normally tested for in the rocket industry?

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Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #29 on: 12/30/2015 10:58 PM »
I wonder how long it will be until there's a "used spaceship" market? Or maybe the term "pre-owned" would sound better.

But seriously, I'd like to know how extensively the various construction materials and components have been tested for "cycle life".  It's one thing to expect your O-ring to flex properly during one launch, but after how many launches will it give out?

Is cycle life something that's normally tested for in the rocket industry?

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Online AncientU

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #30 on: 12/30/2015 11:06 PM »
I wonder how long it will be until there's a "used spaceship" market? Or maybe the term "pre-owned" would sound better.

But seriously, I'd like to know how extensively the various construction materials and components have been tested for "cycle life".  It's one thing to expect your O-ring to flex properly during one launch, but after how many launches will it give out?

Is cycle life something that's normally tested for in the rocket industry?

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Offline meekGee

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #31 on: 12/30/2015 11:08 PM »
I wonder how long it will be until there's a "used spaceship" market? Or maybe the term "pre-owned" would sound better.

But seriously, I'd like to know how extensively the various construction materials and components have been tested for "cycle life".  It's one thing to expect your O-ring to flex properly during one launch, but after how many launches will it give out?

Is cycle life something that's normally tested for in the rocket industry?

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Offline Henry.Yopp

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #32 on: 12/30/2015 11:25 PM »
I got it, leave the LOX tank white and paint the rest of the stage carbon black.
Out of sight , out of mind!  ;D

« Last Edit: 12/30/2015 11:32 PM by Henry.Yopp »

Offline sanman

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #33 on: 12/31/2015 12:44 AM »
Things like thermal stresses during tank/detank operations are always considered.  Even an EELV may go through several.  But SpaceX needs more than "several". 

But - seriously - do you really doubt that they're only now getting to it?    It may not be "normal" in the rocket industry, but it sure took place with Shuttle, and it sure takes place in the aircraft, shipbuilding and car industries. (and many others, of course)

Fair enough - I'd imagine that thermal stress cycling must have been a prerequisite, given all the
fueling-cancelation-defueling-refueling-etc that happens.

But when it comes to flight dynamic stresses - that's got to be tough to accurately simulate Max-Q and everything else. Furthermore, what do you do when you discover that your recovered booster now has a wicked shimmy in it?
Sounds like it's time to scrap that booster and pull a brand new one off the assembly line.

From what I see, when the fuselage structure exhibits issues during acoustic testing, then that recovered booster is pretty much a write-off. Just cannibalize some parts off it.

Which then also makes me wonder - can the design evolution of the stages/vehicles also move towards maximizing recyclability? Whatever else is wrong with the recovered stage/vehicle, you at least want to be able to scavenge some useful parts off it for possible re-use.




Offline lark

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #34 on: 12/31/2015 01:25 AM »
I understand that the FTS is rendered inert at some point in the flight. Is it rendered so inert that it cannot be reactivated (sounds like a good thing) and so is one thing that must be replaced?

Offline Jim

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #35 on: 12/31/2015 01:41 AM »
I understand that the FTS is rendered inert at some point in the flight. Is it rendered so inert that it cannot be reactivated (sounds like a good thing) and so is one thing that must be replaced?

It is just shut off.

Offline 411rocket

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #36 on: 12/31/2015 04:20 AM »
Things like thermal stresses during tank/detank operations are always considered.  Even an EELV may go through several.  But SpaceX needs more than "several". 

But - seriously - do you really doubt that they're only now getting to it?    It may not be "normal" in the rocket industry, but it sure took place with Shuttle, and it sure takes place in the aircraft, shipbuilding and car industries. (and many others, of course)

Fair enough - I'd imagine that thermal stress cycling must have been a prerequisite, given all the
fueling-cancelation-defueling-refueling-etc that happens.

But when it comes to flight dynamic stresses - that's got to be tough to accurately simulate Max-Q and everything else. Furthermore, what do you do when you discover that your recovered booster now has a wicked shimmy in it?
Sounds like it's time to scrap that booster and pull a brand new one off the assembly line.

From what I see, when the fuselage structure exhibits issues during acoustic testing, then that recovered booster is pretty much a write-off. Just cannibalize some parts off it.

Which then also makes me wonder - can the design evolution of the stages/vehicles also move towards maximizing recyclability? Whatever else is wrong with the recovered stage/vehicle, you at least want to be able to scavenge some useful parts off it for possible re-use.

So the possible salvage yard, gets located in Texas or elsewhere? The useful stuff gets pulled & the remainder gets broken down for recycle, like vehicles & aircraft.

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #37 on: 12/31/2015 06:51 PM »
I wonder how long it will be until there's a "used spaceship" market? Or maybe the term "pre-owned" would sound better.

But seriously, I'd like to know how extensively the various construction materials and components have been tested for "cycle life".  It's one thing to expect your O-ring to flex properly during one launch, but after how many launches will it give out?

Is cycle life something that's normally tested for in the rocket industry?

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Offline shooter6947

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #38 on: 12/31/2015 11:24 PM »
New Elon Musk tweet: 

@ElonMusk: "Falcon 9 back in the hangar at Cape Canaveral. No damage found, ready to fire again. "
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/682717803166695425

Based on the linked image, though:
https://www.instagram.com/p/_-d28bQEc9/
it kinda looks like there's at least some cosmetic damage to the paint.  Will they repaint, or just fly it with that 'used' look?
« Last Edit: 12/31/2015 11:27 PM by shooter6947 »

Offline Eer

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Re: Refurbishment of Used Stages/Vehicles
« Reply #39 on: 12/31/2015 11:50 PM »
I wonder how long it will be until there's a "used spaceship" market? Or maybe the term "pre-owned" would sound better.

But seriously, I'd like to know how extensively the various construction materials and components have been tested for "cycle life".  It's one thing to expect your O-ring to flex properly during one launch, but after how many launches will it give out?

Is cycle life something that's normally tested for in the rocket industry?

Preloved.

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Previously landed.

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