Author Topic: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission MMX  (Read 6611 times)

Offline Fuji

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JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission MMX
« on: 06/11/2015 01:48 PM »
« Last Edit: 04/19/2017 01:00 PM by Fuji »

Offline metaluna4

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Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #1 on: 07/12/2015 07:22 PM »
Just in case anyone's interested in the contents of the table I did a quick translation. If anything's incorrect don't hesitate to blame me!
« Last Edit: 07/16/2015 03:01 PM by metaluna4 »

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #2 on: 07/12/2015 10:43 PM »
If any space agency can pull this mission of it is JAXA, sample returns seem to be their specialty.

Coincidentally last weeks FISO podcast was about a manned mission to Phobo.
http://spirit.as.utexas.edu/~fiso/archivelist.htm

A robotic mission would be a prerequisite for this manned mission. If JAXA does it all the better for NASA.

Offline JH

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Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #3 on: 07/13/2015 07:59 PM »
Just in case anyone's interested in the contents of the table I did a quick translation. If anything's incorrect don't hesitate to blame me!

Just checking, but under system components/elec-elec shouldn't it be (electrical propulsion)? The characters look the same as under system components/chem-elec. Thank you for the translation, by the way.

Offline ThereIWas3

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Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #4 on: 07/13/2015 08:39 PM »
I think you are correct.  電気 means 'electricity'.
The symbol 電 represents a rain cloud with lightning coming out of it,
and appears in words like 'telephone' and 'electric train'.  :)
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Offline metaluna4

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Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #5 on: 07/16/2015 03:02 PM »
Yeah, you're right. Thanks! Fixed it.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #6 on: 11/17/2015 08:14 PM »
Apparently some JAXA representatives made a presentation about this mission at a recent COSPAR conference in Brazil. They primarily talked about science goals, but a colleague who was there said that it is a real mission.

I also met somebody who was brought in as a science adviser to them. The Japanese have a history of creating foreign science advisory teams to critique their plans. This person also said that it is a real mission.

I think that this is actually a good idea and a clever one. First, Japan already has experience with sample return, with both H1 and soon H2. So they have the technology and the operational experience. Second, if they do this mission they will do something that nobody else (not NASA, Russia, India or China) has done before. Third, by doing the mission it sets them up to participate in a future NASA-led Mars sample return mission. So there are a lot of positives to doing a Phobos sample return mission.

Offline Star One

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Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #7 on: 11/17/2015 08:39 PM »
Sample return seems to becoming something of a speciality for JAXA these days. Scientifically it also sounds a very worthy goal.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #8 on: 11/18/2015 01:39 PM »
Well, NASA has already done sample return (Genesis, Stardust), and will have new capabilities with OSIRIS-REx soon. We don't series produce science spacecraft, so there's no real standardization of hardware except for some sensors. I don't know anything about H2, but I can almost guarantee that it has significant differences compared to H1 because it was built later (and it should have them--H1 was lacking in redundancy). So we have to qualify things when we talk about hardware heritage. This is my sorta roundabout way of saying that their Phobos sample return mission will not be a H2 clone.

But what they have developed is the technology, and an understanding of how the technology works (and what does not work). And they also have developed the operational knowledge. H1 provided a number of great engineering lessons in what not to do. The Japanese know that now, and they won't do it with H2. And they'll gain even more knowledge with H2.

So, yeah, they have this capability and they are smart to apply it to Phobos. I hope they go through with that mission, because it is valuable from a scientific standpoint as well as a political partnership one.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #9 on: 11/18/2015 02:23 PM »
Instead of returning a sample to earth via small capsule what about to cislunar space. Use a Orion mission to pick it up, would allow for a larger sample.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #10 on: 11/18/2015 02:50 PM »
Instead of returning a sample to earth via small capsule what about to cislunar space. Use a Orion mission to pick it up, would allow for a larger sample.

Actually, the sample would likely be smaller. While dispensing with the return capsule, now the spacecraft must carry much more fuel in order to slow down to enter orbit around the Moon. Direct Earth reentry is far more mass-efficient.

Also the cost associated with using an SLS launch to send an Orion capsule to retrieve the sample is prohibitive.
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #11 on: 11/18/2015 05:00 PM »
Instead of returning a sample to earth via small capsule what about to cislunar space. Use a Orion mission to pick it up, would allow for a larger sample.

Actually, the sample would likely be smaller. While dispensing with the return capsule, now the spacecraft must carry much more fuel in order to slow down to enter orbit around the Moon. Direct Earth reentry is far more mass-efficient.

Also the cost associated with using an SLS launch to send an Orion capsule to retrieve the sample is prohibitive.

Agreed. There is an interesting proposal for doing this with Orion and a lunar sample called Orion-MoonRise. I rather like that concept, which allows for a much larger sample because Orion would be in the vicinity of the Moon to retrieve something boosted up from it. But coming back from outside the Earth-Moon system you might just as well go into the atmosphere and use that for braking.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #12 on: 11/18/2015 08:50 PM »
Instead of returning a sample to earth via small capsule what about to cislunar space. Use a Orion mission to pick it up, would allow for a larger sample.

Actually, the sample would likely be smaller. While dispensing with the return capsule, now the spacecraft must carry much more fuel in order to slow down to enter orbit around the Moon. Direct Earth reentry is far more mass-efficient.

Also the cost associated with using an SLS launch to send an Orion capsule to retrieve the sample is prohibitive.

Maybe it might be doable with a different launcher & space vehicle.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #13 on: 11/18/2015 09:38 PM »
Instead of returning a sample to earth via small capsule what about to cislunar space. Use a Orion mission to pick it up, would allow for a larger sample.

Actually, the sample would likely be smaller. While dispensing with the return capsule, now the spacecraft must carry much more fuel in order to slow down to enter orbit around the Moon. Direct Earth reentry is far more mass-efficient.

Also the cost associated with using an SLS launch to send an Orion capsule to retrieve the sample is prohibitive.
I wasn't think of dedicated Orion. If NASA was doing Cislunar mission just add pickup of sample to it.
As has been pointed out due to DV changes required, the sample may as well go straight to earth.

Offline tul

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Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission
« Reply #14 on: 05/25/2016 03:49 PM »
The design of the probe will be finished at the end of FY 2016. Launch is still planned for August 2022.

http://mepag.nasa.gov/meeting/2016-03/17_Miyamoto.pdf

Offline Star One

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Offline Fuji

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Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission MMX
« Reply #16 on: 04/11/2017 08:55 PM »
JAXA ISAS's MMX(Martian Moons eXploration) Home page.
http://mmx.isas.jaxa.jp/
« Last Edit: 04/11/2017 08:56 PM by Fuji »

Offline Fuji

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Re: JAXA's Mars moon Sample Return Mission MMX
« Reply #17 on: 04/19/2017 01:04 PM »
JAXA and CNES Make and Sign Implementing Arrangement on Martian Moons Exploration (MMX)
http://global.jaxa.jp/press/2017/04/20170410_cnes.html
Quote
JAXA expects CNES to share technical expertise and to render assistance in the following three research topics for MMX research and development phase;

    - Near-infrared Spectrometer (MacrOmega)
    - Flight Dynamics
    - Feasibility of the Small Lander to be equipped


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