Author Topic: Fairing reuse  (Read 564771 times)

Offline hamerad

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1000 on: 11/03/2017 07:13 AM »
hmm intact fairing possibly?

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I'M MR STEVEN LOOK AT ME AND I GOT MY FAIRING!


https://twitter.com/BoringSled/status/925826712511815680

Edit:Photo removed due to copyright reasons
« Last Edit: 11/03/2017 07:52 AM by hamerad »

Offline woods170

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1001 on: 11/03/2017 11:15 AM »
hmm intact fairing possibly?

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I'M MR STEVEN LOOK AT ME AND I GOT MY FAIRING!


https://twitter.com/BoringSled/status/925826712511815680

Edit:Photo removed due to copyright reasons
It might be a fairing, but whatever it is, it is wrapped in something by the looks of it.

Offline vanoord

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1002 on: 11/03/2017 03:10 PM »
Sure looks like one. Is the size correct for a full fairing?

Going off the (likely) size of the RIB next to it, yes.

Whether or not it's a complete fairing is another question.

Offline Lar

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1003 on: 12/14/2017 07:10 PM »
Wonder what a "short term opportunity area" means...

If I remember correctly, someone up-thread said this would be used for storing previously flown Falcon 9 boosters.
I think you're thinking of the 35000 s.f. of land and 77000 s.f. of water that are being added to SpaceX's permit near berths 51 and 52. In any case, we will see later this month what happens to the B1036 booster with the Iridium NEXT-4 flight.

Quote
Backqround: On January 7,2016, the Board approved RP 15-19 to SpaceX for the use
of 35,000 s.f. of land and 77,000 s.f. of water at Berths 51 and 52 along Miner Street in
San Pedro. RP 15-19 allowed for: berthing rights for the Marmac landing barge and
auxiliary vessels; construction of landside improvements including the installation of
rocket support pedestals on a concrete pad; and installation of temporary perimeter
fencing, an office trailer, a guard shack and portable restrooms. SpaceX's premises are
utilized to berth vessels that recover expended rockets and capsules from over 100
miles offshore and return the respective equipment for land based transportation to
various locations.
ln response to the Board's concern regarding insurance limits and coverage under selfinsurance,
the First Amendment to RP 15-19 increased insurance requirements to
provide superior insurance coverage, thereby reducing the Harbor Department's
financial risk exposure arising from SpaceX's operations.
The Second Amendment to RP 15-19 increased permit premises primarily at Berth 53
and adjusted compensation correspondingly. The additional areas provided SpaceX
with access to a wider area such that it can conduct its operations more safely and
efficiently, and also reduce the length of time that Miner Street is shut down, thereby
lessening the impact of SpaceX operations on neighboring tenants. A provision was
also added to allow the Harbor Department to be reimbursed for expenses incurred as a
result of the Tenant's operations such as Port Police fees (escort, street closures, etc.);
Construction & Maintenance costs (placement of k-rails, plumbing and electrical
services, etc.); Engineering fees (inspection fees, etc.); rental fees for use of additional
areas (staging for media, parking, etc.); and other related. costs.
SpaceX has conducted five rocket and capsule recoveries since 2016. On November
15, 2017, SpaceX submitted an application for additional premises in order to
accommodate the MA/ Mr. Steven, a 205-foot long vessel dedicated to recovering the
fairing portion of rockets which protect the spacecraft and reduce drag during flight.
No additional hazardous materials will be brought to the Port. The extended area will
allow a better layout for its operations and allow SpaceX to remove equipment on top of
their sea vans as much as possible, and better contain their equipment behind the
perimeter fencing, away from public view.
The proposed Third Amendment (Transmittal 1) to RP 15-19 modifies the permit
premises by adding a9,143 s.f. land parcel and a 25,500 s.f. submerged land parcel on
the south side of its current premises (Transmittal2), and modifying the compensation
accordingly, from $24,328.73 to $28,095.82 a month. ln anticipation of the vessel's
arrival in mid to late December 2018, SpaceX would like to take possession of the
additional premises by December 15, 2017.
Source: https://www.portoflosangeles.org/Board/2017/December%202017/121417_Regular_Agenda_Item_8.pdf
I think it interesting that Mr. Steven might migrate coasts.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1004 on: 12/17/2017 01:15 AM »
I think it interesting that Mr. Steven might migrate coasts.

As far as I know, it has already...

Marine Traffic link
« Last Edit: 12/17/2017 01:18 AM by RedLineTrain »

Offline Bob Shaw

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1005 on: 12/17/2017 01:27 AM »
Google 'Killer Tomato Target' and choose images - I think I took some of them. The predeployment package is *very* small and probably weighs less than 20Kg.

This might serve as a ballute and a flotation device.

Offline Lar

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1006 on: 12/17/2017 01:48 AM »
I think it interesting that Mr. Steven might migrate coasts.

As far as I know, it has already...

Marine Traffic link
That wasn't my point, rather that at this time they sent Mr. Steven rather than hiring another vessel. That suggests that Mr. Steven has some gear on board that it would be cost ineffective to duplicate,  or ship it all to the other coast and place on a similar vessel...  And THAT suggests that maybe there were some vessel mods (just like an ASDS got some mods) and further that they're not completely sure they have it all right yet to the point of duplicating it all. 

To me this all makes sense and probably was predictable without the move confirmation, but the move confirmation is just that, a bit of corroboration for the above.

Note that except for canal delay and transit times[1], Mr. Steven is much faster[2] than a towed ASDS but as launch cadence increases they can't sent it back and forth every time... once they have this figured out I would expect them to duplicate the setup, as they did for the ASDS.

1 - assuming they didn't go round the horn, which adds a LOT, what does Marine Traffic suggest?
2 - about 3x or better, 25 kt vs 8 kt I think?
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Lar

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1007 on: 12/17/2017 01:53 AM »
PS, what is the long term history of Mr. Steven? Based on some stuff posted here and on the FB group about her owners, charter offers, etc, I got the impression, perhaps false, that long term she was an Atlantic vessel, not a Pacific one, so this might be a temporary move rather than a permanent one (that is, which coast ends up with her, vs which coast gets the "new set" of equipment and another vessel?)
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline vanoord

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1008 on: 12/18/2017 08:21 AM »
My suspicion with Mr.Steven is that its speed* is the reason they've chartered it.

Either to get to the fairing before it sinks (but flotation bags would probably negate that) or to get under the fairing as it descends and provide a landing platform for it.

Looks like she was built as a crew transfer vessel for Gulf oil platforms but obviously can be used elsewhere for other purposes.


* Capable of 32 knots, if I got it right last time I looked it up.

Offline Lar

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1009 on: 12/18/2017 12:21 PM »
There are other fast boats. My inferences are around how close to "done" they are with equipment development... ie, not that done yet or they would duplicate instead of sending her through the canal.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Online zack

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1010 on: 12/19/2017 02:27 PM »
Looks like Mr. Steven is getting the "Bouncy Castle" upgrade in LA, maybe we get to see it in use on Iridium.

https://imgur.com/gallery/MQcEE

credit due to u/vshie on reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/7ktq9y/new_space_x_mystery_boat_with_odd_gearin_port_of/

Offline cscott

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1011 on: 12/19/2017 02:31 PM »
Looks like Mr. Steven is getting the "Bouncy Castle" upgrade in LA, maybe we get to see it in use on Iridium.

https://imgur.com/gallery/MQcEE

credit due to u/vshie on reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/7ktq9y/new_space_x_mystery_boat_with_odd_gearin_port_of/
Wow!  There's a rumor that Iridium is going to forego legs and be dumped in the ocean -- but perhaps they'll use the margin for a fairing recovery test?

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1012 on: 12/19/2017 02:36 PM »
There's a rumor that Iridium is going to forego legs and be dumped in the ocean -- but perhaps they'll use the margin for a fairing recovery test?

I think you might be underestimating the margin they have on Iridium flights even with S1 recovery hardware included. If their margin was so razor-thin that fairing recovery is a make or break thing, they would not have attempted booster recovery on prior launches at all. Simply a slightly higher reentry energy would fix the mass overhead of fairing recovery hardware, something that would still be vastly easier on the hardware than a typical GTO launch.
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 02:38 PM by ugordan »

Offline TrueBlueWitt

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1013 on: 12/19/2017 02:39 PM »
Looks like Mr. Steven is getting the "Bouncy Castle" upgrade in LA, maybe we get to see it in use on Iridium.

https://imgur.com/gallery/MQcEE

credit due to u/vshie on reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/7ktq9y/new_space_x_mystery_boat_with_odd_gearin_port_of/
Wow!  There's a rumor that Iridium is going to forego legs and be dumped in the ocean -- but perhaps they'll use the margin for a fairing recovery test?

Mr Steven's new nickname should be "Dock Ock"!
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 02:39 PM by TrueBlueWitt »

Offline cscott

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1014 on: 12/19/2017 02:44 PM »
There's a rumor that Iridium is going to forego legs and be dumped in the ocean -- but perhaps they'll use the margin for a fairing recovery test?

I think you might be underestimating the margin they have on Iridium flights even with S1 recovery hardware included. If their margin was so razor-thin that fairing recovery is a make or break thing, they would not have attempted booster recovery on prior launches at all. Simply a slightly higher reentry energy would fix the mass overhead of fairing recovery hardware, something that would still be vastly easier on the hardware than a typical GTO launch.
I have no particular knowledge of margins other than you ought to be able to trade leg mass with recovery hardware mass almost 1-1.  (Not quite, but the fairing is jettisoned 40s into the 6m34s S2 burn.)

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1015 on: 12/19/2017 02:54 PM »
Looks like Mr. Steven is getting the "Bouncy Castle" upgrade in LA, maybe we get to see it in use on Iridium.

https://imgur.com/gallery/MQcEE

credit due to u/vshie on reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/7ktq9y/new_space_x_mystery_boat_with_odd_gearin_port_of/
Wow!  There's a rumor that Iridium is going to forego legs and be dumped in the ocean -- but perhaps they'll use the margin for a fairing recovery test?

Mr Steven's new nickname should be "Dock Ock"!

Increasing what SpaceX is doing is hilarious in it's audacity - truly straight out of comic books! Brilliant!
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline DavidH

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1016 on: 12/19/2017 03:07 PM »
Looks like Mr. Steven is getting the "Bouncy Castle" upgrade in LA, maybe we get to see it in use on Iridium.

https://imgur.com/gallery/MQcEE

credit due to u/vshie on reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/7ktq9y/new_space_x_mystery_boat_with_odd_gearin_port_of/
Wow. Looks like Mr. Steven's Special Equipment list is out of date.
That's just awesome!
Another vote for Dock Ock.
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Online jebbo

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1017 on: 12/19/2017 03:20 PM »
Hmm ... not sure how this is meant to work. Presumably the fairing returns in two halves. Does the ship catch one, then sprint to catch the other? Or have I missed something obvious?

--- Tony

Offline JBF

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1018 on: 12/19/2017 03:41 PM »
Hmm ... not sure how this is meant to work. Presumably the fairing returns in two halves. Does the ship catch one, then sprint to catch the other? Or have I missed something obvious?

--- Tony

Probably just experimenting with one and once it works they will deploy 2 ships.
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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1019 on: 12/19/2017 03:56 PM »
Probably just experimenting with one and once it works they will deploy 2 ships.

Possibly.

If I was designing it, I'd go for different chutes on the two halves so one descends slower, and possibly active shrouds so you can be sure they land close to each other.  Then the catch one, sprint, catch the other works. But I have no idea how feasible that is ...

--- Tony

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