Author Topic: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video  (Read 111103 times)

Offline Tonioroffo

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #20 on: 07/22/2014 07:46 PM »
How about an old oil platform.  They are perfectly stable.

Offline Xspace_engineerX

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #21 on: 07/22/2014 07:47 PM »
'with no required refurbishment' - this is a big deal. Until this launch SpaceX has been saying that they didn't know how much refurbishment was required.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #22 on: 07/22/2014 07:49 PM »
'with no required refurbishment' - this is a big deal. Until this launch SpaceX has been saying that they didn't know how much refurbishment was required.

I'm not sure what they meant there, but it seems like something they wouldn't be able to state accurately UNTIL they could inspect a star returned to land. (End of this year(?), if flight 14 will land)

The outlier reason might be IF they were able to recover a significant amount of vital hardware. Have we heard if anything was recovered?
« Last Edit: 07/22/2014 07:52 PM by Lars_J »

Offline Scylla

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #23 on: 07/22/2014 07:53 PM »
How about an old oil platform.  They are perfectly stable.

I think the helipad of an old oil platform is kind of small for a first attempt. Besides all the oil platforms I've ever seen are kind of tall, tricky getting a Falcon first stage off of one.
I reject your reality and substitute my own--Doctor Who

Offline mme

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #24 on: 07/22/2014 07:56 PM »
From the update on the SpaceX site:

"We will attempt our next water landing on flight 13 of Falcon 9, but with a low probability of success. Flights 14 and 15 will attempt to land on a solid surface with an improved probability of success."

The real story here is flights 14 & 15 on LAND!!  That's before the end of this year.

Does this mean they have gotten precise in hitting a designated landing location?

I wonder if F9R-Dev 2 is going to be needed if they keep collecting data with these flights?
From: SPACEX SOFT LANDS FALCON 9 ROCKET FIRST STAGE
Quote
At this point, we are highly confident of being able to land successfully on a floating launch pad or back at the launch site and refly the rocket with no required refurbishment. However, our next couple launches are for very high velocity geostationary satellite missions, which donít allow enough residual propellant for landing. In the longer term, missions like that will fly on Falcon Heavy, but until then Falcon 9 will need to fly in expendable mode.

We will attempt our next water landing on flight 13 of Falcon 9, but with a low probability of success. Flights 14 and 15 will attempt to land on a solid surface with an improved probability of success.
Given the wording, they may target a platform at see first, before attempting to land on land.  Either way, this is way sooner than I expected!
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #25 on: 07/22/2014 07:57 PM »
One implication of the news that they only plan one more ocean 'landing' before trying to land on land, is that the next ocean landing attempt (flight #13 - presumably next CRS mission) will have to demonstrate a pinpoint landing. So presumably that will be the first flight with the grid fins installed.

Online Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #26 on: 07/22/2014 07:57 PM »
'with no required refurbishment' - this is a big deal. Until this launch SpaceX has been saying that they didn't know how much refurbishment was required.

I'm not sure what they meant there, but it seems like something they wouldn't be able to state accurately UNTIL they could inspect a star returned to land. (End of this year(?), if flight 14 will land)

The outlier reason might be IF they were able to recover a significant amount of vital hardware. Have we heard if anything was recovered?
My guess is that they are extrapolating from F9R and the telemetry they received from the stage.

Offline Tonioroffo

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #27 on: 07/22/2014 08:01 PM »
Checked the recommended helipad sizes (https://new.rotor.com/portals/1/publication/Heliports_25_Most_Asked_Questions.pdf)

65 square feet to 100 square feet - small indeed.

Offline GusTurbo

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #28 on: 07/22/2014 08:05 PM »
From the update on the SpaceX site:

"We will attempt our next water landing on flight 13 of Falcon 9, but with a low probability of success. Flights 14 and 15 will attempt to land on a solid surface with an improved probability of success."

The real story here is flights 14 & 15 on LAND!!  That's before the end of this year.

Does this mean they have gotten precise in hitting a designated landing location?

I wonder if F9R-Dev 2 is going to be needed if they keep collecting data with these flights?

Very exciting news, indeed.

The real question is, is this news about potentially attempting solid-surface landings part of the post Chris had to hide all those months ago?

Online Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #29 on: 07/22/2014 08:07 PM »
The real question is, is this news about potentially attempting solid-surface landings part of the post Chris had to hide all those months ago?
Yeah, wonder what happened with that! Been meaning to ask... Chris?

Offline Scylla

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #30 on: 07/22/2014 08:08 PM »
A thought...

Since SpaceX is talking of a possible landing on a floating platform, a small spot in a very big ocean, or landing on land, presumably near launch site where there are lots of breakable, flameable things scattered about, that part of the last flight was bringing the stage down at a specific spot and they were successful?
I reject your reality and substitute my own--Doctor Who

Offline Dudely

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #31 on: 07/22/2014 08:09 PM »
Maybe they are saying it will be able to fly with no refurbishment because punching through the atmosphere in reverse is a pretty violent exercise and they have now done it multiple times with no failure of the structure. And they know they can use the engines a lot because they have done variable numbers of hot fires.

Presumably if they can light three engines twice and one engine three times and do this reliably then it can light nine again fairly easily.


So it's possible they are going on flight history, and have not seen hardware yet (though if I had to wager a guess I would say they've been able to at least recover whole engines by now).

Offline meekGee

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #32 on: 07/22/2014 08:10 PM »
So that's a lot of new information, some of it we suspected already, but nice to see it confirmed.

A) They'd rather fly a reusable FH than an expendable F9.  That says something about cost. We suspect it's a no brainer and reusability is a lot more of a cost-saver than what's implied here, but still for those that think a reusable vehicle does not equal cost reduction, here it is, formally:  A reusable triple-barrel flight is cheaper than an expendable single-barrel.

B) No refurbishment re-flight is not a far-off future concept. It's ready.

C) In the near term, no increased performance for F9 that will allow it to fly AsiaSat to GTO.

D) Nothing is off the table regarding what lands where.  At least during the next test, they are entertaining landing on a floating platform. Whether that's only a test necessity or also something they care about, remains to be seen.

E) They already feel confident about GNC between re-entry and landing.  I take it then that the grid fins are there to allow this confidence in higher cross winds, for example.

ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #33 on: 07/22/2014 08:11 PM »
Or possibly some sort of barge. :o

Thanks all.  I hope it's land based for a few reasons, it's more meaningful and the word barge sounds rough and crude.  Not to mention unstable.

But perhaps landing in the middle of a painted target will provide the proof needed to be allowed to return to CCAFS.

Great news on confirming larger payloads flying on F9H. 

How much of a trip will it be seeing 3 cores land within seconds of each other!!

Edit: I can only assume that they have held conversation on being approved for return to CCAFS.  Do we know what the terms are for approval?
« Last Edit: 07/22/2014 08:13 PM by wannamoonbase »
I know they don't need it, but Crossfeed would be super cool.

Offline Lourens

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #34 on: 07/22/2014 08:12 PM »
Checked the recommended helipad sizes (https://new.rotor.com/portals/1/publication/Heliports_25_Most_Asked_Questions.pdf)

65 square feet to 100 square feet - small indeed.

Actually, according to the linked report, 65 foot square to 100 foot square, i.e. a 65 ft by 65 ft to 100 ft by 100 ft foot area. 65 square feet would be 8ft x 8ft, which would fit only model helicopters :).

For the solid surface, I vote iceberg.

Offline joshcryer

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #35 on: 07/22/2014 08:13 PM »
Any word on how much of this Falcon 9 was recovered? That could go into the refurbishment question.

Offline mme

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #36 on: 07/22/2014 08:15 PM »
The landing burn almost looked like it was sputtering.  Why would it look like that?
My guess is that it's just the turbo pump's flame being blown back by the descent.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline Tonioroffo

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #37 on: 07/22/2014 08:15 PM »

Actually, according to the linked report, 65 foot square to 100 foot square, i.e. a 65 ft by 65 ft to 100 ft by 100 ft foot area. 65 square feet would be 8ft x 8ft, which would fit only model helicopters :).

For the solid surface, I vote iceberg.

Sorry, too excited to think straight :)

Offline Darga

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #38 on: 07/22/2014 08:19 PM »
Looking at the OG2 launch video, stage 1 sep was at 15:17:58 (T+2:43) and from this video, reentry burn started at 15:23:46 (T+8:31), landing burn 15:25:42 (T+10:27), leg deploy 15:25:57 (T+10:42) and splashdown 15:26:05 (T+10:50) if my math is correct.
« Last Edit: 07/22/2014 08:23 PM by Darga »

Offline saliva_sweet

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Re: Falcon 9 v1.1 ORBCOMM - First Stage Ocean Landing Video
« Reply #39 on: 07/22/2014 08:25 PM »
I wonder about the audio. Was IainCole involved or did they actually have a microphone this time.

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