There's been a fair bit of head-scratching up till now as to how Spacex is going to finance its Mars colonization plans. ...
Quote from: meekGee on 07/06/2014 05:29 amQuote from: AJW on 07/06/2014 04:48 amInvolving governments brings red tape, strings, and bureaucrats. I think that Musk will prefer to seek funding directly from the public since few corporations will be willing to invest when the ROI isn't possible for decades.Instead, consider this list of names. Collis Porter Huntington, Mark Hopkins, Charles Crocker, Leland Stanford. Stanford, born to a farmer, organized this group to create the Central Pacific Railroad. Look up the Pacific Railroad Acts, passed by congress to help promote and fund the development of the railways by granting land to the railroad companies. So you made a billion at Facebook, congrats. Want to be immortalized? Have a spaceport named after you. The first Mars city. The passenger gateway at L2. Or, you can take the cash to your grave and hope that someone writes a nice obit.Land rights are a huge deal.What does it take to make a claim? Who recognizes claims? Governments indulge in red tape when they have nothing better to do. But when it becomes as urgent as this, they can move too fast sometimes.Earth based governments might make demands in exchange for funding, but that goes down the drain when the colony becomes self sufficient. Ultimately, any permanent colony is going to be self governing. You don't get to stake a claim to land unless you send people there. Squatters have more power over that land than someone back on earth with a piece of paper.
Quote from: AJW on 07/06/2014 04:48 amInvolving governments brings red tape, strings, and bureaucrats. I think that Musk will prefer to seek funding directly from the public since few corporations will be willing to invest when the ROI isn't possible for decades.Instead, consider this list of names. Collis Porter Huntington, Mark Hopkins, Charles Crocker, Leland Stanford. Stanford, born to a farmer, organized this group to create the Central Pacific Railroad. Look up the Pacific Railroad Acts, passed by congress to help promote and fund the development of the railways by granting land to the railroad companies. So you made a billion at Facebook, congrats. Want to be immortalized? Have a spaceport named after you. The first Mars city. The passenger gateway at L2. Or, you can take the cash to your grave and hope that someone writes a nice obit.Land rights are a huge deal.What does it take to make a claim? Who recognizes claims? Governments indulge in red tape when they have nothing better to do. But when it becomes as urgent as this, they can move too fast sometimes.
Involving governments brings red tape, strings, and bureaucrats. I think that Musk will prefer to seek funding directly from the public since few corporations will be willing to invest when the ROI isn't possible for decades.Instead, consider this list of names. Collis Porter Huntington, Mark Hopkins, Charles Crocker, Leland Stanford. Stanford, born to a farmer, organized this group to create the Central Pacific Railroad. Look up the Pacific Railroad Acts, passed by congress to help promote and fund the development of the railways by granting land to the railroad companies. So you made a billion at Facebook, congrats. Want to be immortalized? Have a spaceport named after you. The first Mars city. The passenger gateway at L2. Or, you can take the cash to your grave and hope that someone writes a nice obit.
Quote from: Hyperion5 on 07/05/2014 04:00 amThere's been a fair bit of head-scratching up till now as to how Spacex is going to finance its Mars colonization plans. ...The only way that SpaceX is going to build and launch multiple HLLVs and trans-Mars spacecraft is if a government, or governments, fund the project. I've always seen SpaceX plans as a pitch to NASA and the U.S. government. None of this gets built otherwise. - Ed Kyle
The only way that SpaceX is going to build and launch multiple HLLVs and trans-Mars spacecraft is if a government, or governments, fund the project. I've always seen SpaceX plans as a pitch to NASA and the U.S. government. None of this gets built otherwise. - Ed Kyle
The MCT today would be a brontosaurus in the age of trilobites. Im sure there is an element of pointed humour behind it. A massive reusable vehicle that launches at best every two years isn't that interesting to me.
There isnt even serious work on how to live on Mars yet.
Obviously nothing like MCT's necessary environment exists today.
A massive reusable vehicle that launches at best every two years isn't that interesting to me.
Quote from: llanitedave on 07/06/2014 08:20 pmQuote from: AJW on 07/06/2014 04:48 amInvolving governments brings red tape, strings, and bureaucrats. You think involving corporations doesn't? I've worked in both, and found that bureaucracy is an equal-opportunity curse. It's an organizational phenomenon, not a strictly government.And anyone who tells you different is selling something.True, but having worked both sides my experience is that the government subspecies is worse.
Quote from: AJW on 07/06/2014 04:48 amInvolving governments brings red tape, strings, and bureaucrats. You think involving corporations doesn't? I've worked in both, and found that bureaucracy is an equal-opportunity curse. It's an organizational phenomenon, not a strictly government.And anyone who tells you different is selling something.
Involving governments brings red tape, strings, and bureaucrats.
Quote from: docmordrid on 07/06/2014 08:39 pmQuote from: llanitedave on 07/06/2014 08:20 pmQuote from: AJW on 07/06/2014 04:48 amInvolving governments brings red tape, strings, and bureaucrats. You think involving corporations doesn't? I've worked in both, and found that bureaucracy is an equal-opportunity curse. It's an organizational phenomenon, not a strictly government.And anyone who tells you different is selling something.True, but having worked both sides my experience is that the government subspecies is worse.My experience of both is they are the much the same.But red tape is also essential. Without standards and agreements, nothing is going to work.
Mars doesn't have a magnetic field. Anything living long term on Mars is HUGELY problematic. At best we are talking about short term visits.
Quote from: RocketGoBoom on 07/07/2014 05:29 amMars doesn't have a magnetic field. Anything living long term on Mars is HUGELY problematic. At best we are talking about short term visits.That's the worst excuse I think I've ever heard.
Not to go too off topic from the financing issue here, but don't you think the radiation issue is a serious long term barrier to any actual self sustaining colony on Mars?
All I said was that IF you start with Elon's statement of "People on Mars in 10-12 years", THEN IMO they need to send a first payload in 2016, because there's a limited number of launch cycles, and there's a certain minimum steps in the landing curve.
In that case you can do the FH flight in 2018, unmanned BFR/MCT in 2020 and 2022, and a manned landing in 2024 or 2026.
Every company needs a "vision", even if it isn't entirely realistic. SpaceX and Elon talk about Mars, but they don't seem to be doing much about it other than improving the economics of getting into Earth orbit.
In international relations, we have a saying that "possession is 9/10ths of the law". When the Russian Federation violated international law by conquering Crimea from Ukraine, it was strictly illegal under international law. Yet today the first conquest of a portion of another state by a major power since WWII has largely been tacitly recognized. After all, what state on Earth would want to fight a nuclear-armed, oil-producing powerhouse like Russia over Crimea?
Quote from: Cruncher on 07/05/2014 12:04 pmMusk has no cash at all, he has millions in debt. see:http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-borrows-150-million-to-buy-tesla-2013-5One nit, I'm not as concerned about his current debt as you are...
Musk has no cash at all, he has millions in debt. see:http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-borrows-150-million-to-buy-tesla-2013-5