Author Topic: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly  (Read 33970 times)

Offline clongton

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #20 on: 10/30/2013 12:16 AM »
Super article Chris - thanks.
Especially enjoyed the explanations Mark Sirangelo gave of the events of the flight and SNC's perception of the importance of the gear failure in the overall view. Nice to know that all the important stuff survived unscathed and as for the rest, that while damaged, it was not significant enough to preclude repair and reflight.

Once again - great article.
« Last Edit: 10/30/2013 01:36 PM by clongton »
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Offline joek

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #21 on: 10/30/2013 12:34 AM »
Of course, all of us genuine enthusiasts want to see the full video, or better yet, live coverage; but unfortunately, the companies have to worry about hostile members of Congress and a generally ignorant and sensation-seeking news media.
Bingo.

A review of the telecon suggests that the media (at least those interested enough to attend, which included both mainstream and niche) are reasonably well informed and not seeking sensational headlines.  SNC did not appear to attempt to hide anything, and appeared to answer media questions forthrightly.  Lack of live coverage or prompt release of video seems to be the least of the problems, or at least the concern of a small minority of enthusiasts.

How about focusing on what SNC has stated and the media has reported?  If you have concerns or disagree with the accuracy of those statements or reports, then by all means state them.  If your complaint is lack of transparency, then learn to live with it.  No program, government, private, or otherwise has ever been completely transparent.  Availability or lack of video of any particular event is no indicator of transparency.

In short, IMHO if SNC released complete video of the landing and aftermath, it would matter naught other than to a few.

Offline Peter NASA

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #22 on: 10/30/2013 03:02 AM »
Impressive article again Chris!

Online edkyle99

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #23 on: 10/30/2013 03:21 AM »
SNC will eventually release the full video, after they have a couple of completely successful flights under their belt.
SpaceX is still sitting on video of its 2006 and 2008 failures. 

 - Ed Kyle

Online Galactic Penguin SST

SNC will eventually release the full video, after they have a couple of completely successful flights under their belt.
SpaceX is still sitting on video of its 2006 and 2008 failures. 

 - Ed Kyle

Not sure about Falcon 1 Flight 1, but here's Flight 3 in its "full glory":



And here's Flight 2 with the stage re-contact:



P.S. Sorry if it is only slightly related to the main topic.....I suggest others to reply this post at here.  :-[
« Last Edit: 10/30/2013 03:28 AM by Galactic Penguin SST »
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline iamlucky13

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #25 on: 10/30/2013 05:28 AM »
I've been too busy to follow progress much lately. I didn't even realize first glide test was already upon us.

Unfortunately, I found out about that at the same time the Associated Press informed me that Dreamchaser is not just "like a miniature shuttle," as it is commonly and more reasonably described, but is, in fact, the new version of the space shuttle.

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2022149511_spaceplanexml.html

Quote
The new version of NASA’s space shuttle, being designed by Sierra Nevada Corp., is vying to carry astronauts to and from the international space station in four or five more years.

Thank goodness for NSF's far better coverage to read.

But that aside, the video looked great. I'm looking forward to speedy repairs and progressively more challenging glide tests.

Speaking of which, is there a public description anywhere of the Dream Chaser test program? What else is left to be done under the current contract?

Offline Quindar

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #26 on: 10/30/2013 06:00 AM »
Superb article Chris.  A great flight and a "free" crash test proving the viability of the design to handle an off normal landing incident, not something that they were trying to test but it is good data to have none the less. 
Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth...

Online john smith 19

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #27 on: 10/30/2013 07:29 AM »
An excellent article. The real focus of the flight was what DC could do in the air and it it did brilliantly.

In fact this flight is even more amazing.

It is the first full size composite lifting body to make a completely autonomous runway landing (in the open world) in the US ever  :)

I'll note while I'm sure a lot of people would love to see a 2nd test flight it does sound quite likely that this flight has fulfilled all the milestones that NASA set in the contract. The budget is tight and I'd expect SNC will have to be very pragmatic about this.  :( 

The mission of a test vehicle is to gather data. If all necessary data is gathered then its job is done and it's time to move onto the next phase.

My only worry is that impact damage has been shown to lower the strength of composite pressure vessels with no visible damage. I hope SNC's NDE sensors are good enough to detect such damage.  :)

It's difficult to judge exactly how badly injured the craft was but it does seem that SNC have been very lucky
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Offline woods170

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #28 on: 10/30/2013 07:45 AM »
I was wondering how long it'd take before that argument found its way to this thread...

One hour and 14 minutes.

Offline woods170

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #29 on: 10/30/2013 07:52 AM »
SNC will eventually release the full video, after they have a couple of completely successful flights under their belt.
SpaceX is still sitting on video of its 2006 and 2008 failures. 

 - Ed Kyle

Exactly what is the problem Ed? You don't let a chance go by to display your dismay with commercial companies not showing their failures. This is not NASA. The things these companies do are not public domain. They have every legal right to keep information about these failures from the general public, regardless of them being financed with tax-payers dollars. This is the world of proprietary information. This is how it works. This is how commercial PR works. You celebrate the things that go right, and you downplay the things that went wrong.
That's not new. It has been standard MO since the very start of the aerospace industry.
« Last Edit: 10/30/2013 10:46 AM by woods170 »

Offline jtrame

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #30 on: 10/30/2013 09:58 AM »
Did it take a tumble?  They seem to be saying now that it did not.  Skidded sideways off the runway in a cloud of dust and came to a stop upright?   

Offline psloss

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #31 on: 10/30/2013 10:08 AM »
How about focusing on what SNC has stated and the media has reported?  If you have concerns or disagree with the accuracy of those statements or reports, then by all means state them.  If your complaint is lack of transparency, then learn to live with it.  No program, government, private, or otherwise has ever been completely transparent.  Availability or lack of video of any particular event is no indicator of transparency.

In short, IMHO if SNC released complete video of the landing and aftermath, it would matter naught other than to a few.
This is not black-and-white.  (One size doesn't fit all, either.)

With respect to releasing information, it's more as woods170 wrote -- standard public relations (beyond the aerospace industry); however, releasing video or not and editorial choices made in release aren't the only decisions involved.  For example, we wanted to cover the drop test in-person and I'd bet we weren't the only ones. 

It's not difficult to understand why they wanted to keep the test private; however, I imagine there will eventually be an approach and land that media will be allowed to cover in-person -- and the stakes probably won't be much different.

Online Chris Bergin

Thanks again for the nice words! Means a lot, because you're the readers. :)

Did it take a tumble?  They seem to be saying now that it did not.  Skidded sideways off the runway in a cloud of dust and came to a stop upright?   

She took a tumble. They were really careful to avoid words like crash, tumble, flip -  but she did.  Trust me, I know. But again, she's a strong little girl to do that and "survive". Sure, she looks a mess on the outside, but inside is what counts.

Offline brihath

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #33 on: 10/30/2013 12:00 PM »
SNC will eventually release the full video, after they have a couple of completely successful flights under their belt.
SpaceX is still sitting on video of its 2006 and 2008 failures. 

 - Ed Kyle

Exactly what is the problem Ed? You don't let a chance go by to display your dismay with commercial companies not showing their failures. This is not NASA. The things these companies do are not public domain. They have every legal right to keep information about these failures from the general public, regardless of them being financed with tax-payers dollars. This is the world of proprietary information. This is how it works. This is how commercial PR works. You celebrate the things that go right, and you downplay the things that went wrong.
That's not new. It has been standard MO since the very start of the aerospace industry.

I have worked in several industries over my career.  One common thread I noted is that all corporations are loath to publicize safety issues, including accidents and incidents.  That is internal information and is only shared when the government requires it or if it becomes a major news item.  Even then, the information flow is tightly controlled.  That is every company's responsibility and is necessary to avoid the costs of litigation.  SNC is no different than other companies in that regard.

Offline MarkM

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #34 on: 10/30/2013 12:09 PM »
Hi Chris,

Thanks for the great article, as always!  I have one question - was the airspeed at landing for this test flight similar to what would be expected on an actual reteurn from orbit? 

Mark

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #35 on: 10/30/2013 12:13 PM »
Thanks again for the nice words! Means a lot, because you're the readers. :)

Did it take a tumble?  They seem to be saying now that it did not.  Skidded sideways off the runway in a cloud of dust and came to a stop upright?   

She took a tumble. They were really careful to avoid words like crash, tumble, flip -  but she did.  Trust me, I know. But again, she's a strong little girl to do that and "survive". Sure, she looks a mess on the outside, but inside is what counts.
But that would have happened as she scrubbed off speed and diverged from the runway unto the soft sand, which although allowed DC to dig on to her left and presumable over, but cushion the impact.

Does that sound fair Chris?
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Offline Lee Jay

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #36 on: 10/30/2013 12:38 PM »
Hi Chris,

Thanks for the great article, as always!  I have one question - was the airspeed at landing for this test flight similar to what would be expected on an actual reteurn from orbit? 

Mark

They told me that the planned return from orbit landing speed was 191 knots.

Offline newpylong

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #37 on: 10/30/2013 01:04 PM »
Seems that the vehicle could be outfitted for piloted use early if the data achieved does not require an additional un-piloted flight?

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Dream Chaser ETA review promotes positives despite anomaly
« Reply #38 on: 10/30/2013 01:22 PM »
Sure, she looks a mess on the outside, but inside is what counts.
Sounds like my dating profile.

Online Chris Bergin

Thanks again for the nice words! Means a lot, because you're the readers. :)

Did it take a tumble?  They seem to be saying now that it did not.  Skidded sideways off the runway in a cloud of dust and came to a stop upright?   

She took a tumble. They were really careful to avoid words like crash, tumble, flip -  but she did.  Trust me, I know. But again, she's a strong little girl to do that and "survive". Sure, she looks a mess on the outside, but inside is what counts.
But that would have happened as she scrubbed off speed and diverged from the runway unto the soft sand, which although allowed DC to dig on to her left and presumable over, but cushion the impact.

Does that sound fair Chris?


I think that's fair. I also think it's fair to say it "looked" a lot worse than it was, with all the sand/dust/fake TPS. I'm betting that's a good reason as to why they haven't released that part of the video. Could easily be dramatized (not by the space flight media).....and it would do them no good to have screenshots of that all over websites and news papers.

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