Author Topic: LIVE: TG-2 Tiangong-2 - CZ-2F/T2 - JSLC - September 15, 2016 (14:04 UTC)  (Read 92214 times)

Online Satori

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A new thread for the TG-2 Tiangong-2 launch.

After the end of operations with the TG-1 Tiangong-1 space module, China plans to launch the TG-2 Tiangong-2 space laboratory.

Actual indications is that the launch will take place at the end of 2013 or in 2014. As plotugno pointed out, the latest issue of the Chinese Journal of Space Science (n.5 vol 32, 2012), http://www.cjss.ac.cn/EN/volumn/current.shtml , has an interesting series of free access survey articles on the status of Chinese space science.

In one of these articles "China’s Space Astronomy and Solar Physics in 2011-2012" by Zhang Shuangnan; Yan Yihua and gan Weiqun, we can read that "POLAR is a Chinese-Europe joint experiment on board China's manned spacelab. (...) It is expected that POLAR will be launched into orbit in 2014 with the TG-2 spaceship as part of the spacelab."

So, TG-2 will be launched in 2014.
« Last Edit: 09/14/2016 11:24 PM by Galactic Penguin SST »

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

A new thread for the TG-2 Tiangong-2 launch.

After the end of operations with the TG-1 Tiangong-1 space module, China plans to launch the TG-2 Tiangong-2 space laboratory.

Actual indications is that the launch will take place at the end of 2013 or in 2014. As plotugno pointed out, the latest issue of the Chinese Journal of Space Science (n.5 vol 32, 2012), http://www.cjss.ac.cn/EN/volumn/current.shtml , has an interesting series of free access survey articles on the status of Chinese space science.

In one of these articles "China’s Space Astronomy and Solar Physics in 2011-2012" by Zhang Shuangnan; Yan Yihua and gan Weiqun, we can read that "POLAR is a Chinese-Europe joint experiment on board China's manned spacelab. (...) It is expected that POLAR will be launched into orbit in 2014 with the TG-2 spaceship as part of the spacelab."

So, TG-2 will be launched in 2014.

Are you sure that this will be launched by a CZ-7? AFAIK Wenchang may only just started its first launch operation by that year, and that's assuming no slips on the way. I would bet 5 dollars that a CZ-2F will be used for the launch....  ::)
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Online Satori

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A new thread for the TG-2 Tiangong-2 launch.

After the end of operations with the TG-1 Tiangong-1 space module, China plans to launch the TG-2 Tiangong-2 space laboratory.

Actual indications is that the launch will take place at the end of 2013 or in 2014. As plotugno pointed out, the latest issue of the Chinese Journal of Space Science (n.5 vol 32, 2012), http://www.cjss.ac.cn/EN/volumn/current.shtml , has an interesting series of free access survey articles on the status of Chinese space science.

In one of these articles "China’s Space Astronomy and Solar Physics in 2011-2012" by Zhang Shuangnan; Yan Yihua and gan Weiqun, we can read that "POLAR is a Chinese-Europe joint experiment on board China's manned spacelab. (...) It is expected that POLAR will be launched into orbit in 2014 with the TG-2 spaceship as part of the spacelab."

So, TG-2 will be launched in 2014.

Are you sure that this will be launched by a CZ-7? AFAIK Wenchang may only just started its first launch operation by that year, and that's assuming no slips on the way. I would bet 5 dollars that a CZ-2F will be used for the launch....  ::)

The CZ-7 is the «new» designation for the CZ-2F/H. Maybe China can upgrade the 921 launch pad in the months between the SZ-10 launch and the launch of TG-2 (I think this can be one year apart). Or you are right, and they will use a CZ-2F/G.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

A new thread for the TG-2 Tiangong-2 launch.

After the end of operations with the TG-1 Tiangong-1 space module, China plans to launch the TG-2 Tiangong-2 space laboratory.

Actual indications is that the launch will take place at the end of 2013 or in 2014. As plotugno pointed out, the latest issue of the Chinese Journal of Space Science (n.5 vol 32, 2012), http://www.cjss.ac.cn/EN/volumn/current.shtml , has an interesting series of free access survey articles on the status of Chinese space science.

In one of these articles "China’s Space Astronomy and Solar Physics in 2011-2012" by Zhang Shuangnan; Yan Yihua and gan Weiqun, we can read that "POLAR is a Chinese-Europe joint experiment on board China's manned spacelab. (...) It is expected that POLAR will be launched into orbit in 2014 with the TG-2 spaceship as part of the spacelab."

So, TG-2 will be launched in 2014.

Are you sure that this will be launched by a CZ-7? AFAIK Wenchang may only just started its first launch operation by that year, and that's assuming no slips on the way. I would bet 5 dollars that a CZ-2F will be used for the launch....  ::)

The CZ-7 is the «new» designation for the CZ-2F/H. Maybe China can upgrade the 921 launch pad in the months between the SZ-10 launch and the launch of TG-2 (I think this can be one year apart). Or you are right, and they will use a CZ-2F/G.

I don't believe that the 921 pad will be upgraded soon - that will mean that the Shenzhou will be switching rockets, and that will need a LOT of work (imaging switching the Soyuz spacecraft to be launched by a zenit rocket!), so I would not be surprised if the CZ-2F is the last rocket of the old CZ series to be retired.

Speaking of this, the plans for the current three launch sites for the new CZ series transition is very unclear. The only safe thing to say right now is that Wenchang will feature one CZ-5 pad and one CZ-7 pad, both aiming for entering operations by 2014/5 (dry runs may be possible by late next year). As for the current three sites:

Xichang: there are talks of making it the "backup site" for Wenchang, but I am not sure what that meant, except that it will continue to hoist the CZ-3 series and other BLEO launches for the next few years. What's next is anybody's guess.

Taiyuan: we know that the CZ-6 has a high possibility of launching from there, but what pad will it use, a new one or upgraded old ones? We don't know yet (it should be a "minimal" pad that features quick-launch procedures from the papers I have seen). It will be interesting to see if the single-stick CZ-7 will be launched from there as well as a CZ-4 replacement.

Jiuquan: I have yet to heard that it will be upgraded for the new launchers, but the plans are entirely unclear at this point.

I can only hope that more information are available at some point down the road....  :-X
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

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I don't remember where I have read about TG-2 being launched by a CZ-7... or probably I'm confusing the launch vehicles. So, changing to CZ-2F/G...

Offline baldusi

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Isn't the CZ-7 a RP-1/LOX version of the CZ-2F? Might not need that many changes.

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Isn't the CZ-7 a RP-1/LOX version of the CZ-2F? Might not need that many changes.

RP-1/LOX for the boosters, 1st and 2nd stage; LOX/LH2 for the 3rd stage. The rocket will be used in two versions (two stage vehicle and three stage vehicle).
« Last Edit: 11/01/2012 06:20 PM by Satori »

Offline Star One

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I don't remember where I have read about TG-2 being launched by a CZ-7... or probably I'm confusing the launch vehicles. So, changing to CZ-2F/G...

What is the CZ-2F/G payload capacity like to LEO, I have found one reference to it being able to put 8,400 Kilograms into such an orbit?

Offline baldusi

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Isn't the CZ-7 a RP-1/LOX version of the CZ-2F? Might not need that many changes.

RP-1/LOX for the boosters, 1st and 2nd stage; LOX/LH2 for the 3rd stage. The rocket will be used in two versions (two stage vehicle and three stage vehicle).
Ok. But how much refurbishment would the pad need? If you design to specifically replace at minimum pad modifications, then they might be able to just retrofit the RP-1/LOX/LH2 lines in the pad.
But if the critical dimensions, attachment points and such is the same, then they might be able to have the pad be duel use.

Online Phillip Clark

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I still believe that since Tiangong 2 will probably be the back-up Tiangong 1 vehicle with improvements to support longer residencies it will be launched aboard the CZ-2F/T variant.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

More news from CMSEO's chief Zhou Jianping: TG-2 will feature more scientific experiments and new technology components to pave the ground towards the future Chinese space station, i.e. more of a "space laboratory" than TG-1. One major addition is the propellant transfer system for testing, using a cargo spacecraft to re-fuel TG-2. He said that "We have get hold of the key technologies for enabling propellant transfer, and we are confident that it will work well.".

TG-2 will be launched "within 2 years" (read: late 2014).

There are also news about TG-1, TG-3 (which does not exist  ::)) and the future Chinese logistics cargo spacecraft from the same report; see the relevant threads for details....
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline beidou

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Chines news reported that TG-2 will be launched in two years, i.e. late 2015.
http://www.hdmnw.com/news/china/460484.html

Online Phillip Clark

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Chines news reported that TG-2 will be launched in two years, i.e. late 2015.
http://www.hdmnw.com/news/china/460484.html

So this could be one of the first operational launches of a CZ-5-derived launch vehicle.

Offline russianhalo117

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Chines news reported that TG-2 will be launched in two years, i.e. late 2015.
http://www.hdmnw.com/news/china/460484.html

So this could be one of the first operational launches of a CZ-5-derived launch vehicle.
It is unlikely to use such an unproven/unflown launcher for TG-2 and since to my knowledge and present understanding TG-2's launcher has already been ordered to date with its launcher mentioned in the same contract order for launchers of TG-1 and SZ-09, 01, and 11. That is what I understand at this point and some is still a bit vague.

Online Phillip Clark

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Chines news reported that TG-2 will be launched in two years, i.e. late 2015.
http://www.hdmnw.com/news/china/460484.html

So this could be one of the first operational launches of a CZ-5-derived launch vehicle.
It is unlikely to use such an unproven/unflown launcher for TG-2 and since to my knowledge and present understanding TG-2's launcher has already been ordered to date with its launcher mentioned in the same contract order for launchers of TG-1 and SZ-09, 01, and 11. That is what I understand at this point and some is still a bit vague.

If the originally-planned TG 2 has been cancelled and replaced by a more massive module in the 15-20 tonnes range then the CZ-2F launcher will not be able to carry it.   Hence a CZ-5 derivative is required - whether it's a CZ-5 itself or the smaller CZ-7.

Offline russianhalo117

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Chines news reported that TG-2 will be launched in two years, i.e. late 2015.
http://www.hdmnw.com/news/china/460484.html

So this could be one of the first operational launches of a CZ-5-derived launch vehicle.
It is unlikely to use such an unproven/unflown launcher for TG-2 and since to my knowledge and present understanding TG-2's launcher has already been ordered to date with its launcher mentioned in the same contract order for launchers of TG-1 and SZ-09, 01, and 11. That is what I understand at this point and some is still a bit vague.

If the originally-planned TG 2 has been cancelled and replaced by a more massive module in the 15-20 tonnes range then the CZ-2F launcher will not be able to carry it.   Hence a CZ-5 derivative is required - whether it's a CZ-5 itself or the smaller CZ-7.
I will look into it again later this summer and see if I find any more info that is newer than mine.

Online Phillip Clark

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The Tiangong 2 designator was originally applied to a small laboratory like Tiangong 1, but this has now been deleted from the Chinese schedule.   Maybe the shell will be modified to fly as a cargo freighter?

What was originally to be Tiangong 3 is now scheduled for launch in 2015 and it is expected to be in the 15-20 tonnes class.   The launch vehicle is expected to be the CZ-7, based upon the strap-on rocket modules planned for the CZ-5 programme.

With the elimination of the original Tiangong 2, one might speculate that there will be more than the originally-planned three piloted missions to the new station.   As pointed out on the Shenzhou 11 thread (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32123.0) it would be reasonable to expect we might have 5-6 piloted missions to Tiangong 2, maybe with each mission supported by a cargo freighter.   Rui Barbosa (Satori) makes the reasonable suggestions that we shall see the first Chinese orbital refuelling while this station is in orbit, together with further EVA work and of course longer stays in orbit (up to six months or so?).
« Last Edit: 06/11/2013 06:19 PM by anik »

Offline Star One

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Is it the intention of the Chinese to use far less flights in their manned space program to support their stations hence the proposal to use such a large cargo vehicle, which I assume will stay docked for far longer periods of time than something like a Progress would?

Online Phillip Clark

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I think that the Chinese have talked about the cargo freighters being in orbit for around six months or so.   The original Progress craft were in orbit for around a month or so.   If Tiangong 2 is to have periodic residencies rather than continuous occupation - at least to start with - we might initially see 1-2 Shenzhou missions a year as the Chinese build up to around 6-8 month residencies.   Maybe in the last year or so of operations Tiangong 2 will be permanently occupied?   Plenty to speculate about at the moment!

Offline Star One

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Will the cargo vehicles be used for orbital boosting and the like for Tiangong-2?

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