Author Topic: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor  (Read 52965 times)

Online edkyle99

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #40 on: 03/29/2012 10:57 PM »
I think it would be awesome to see an F-1, one of the non flown engines that is the real thing, be fired up for one test to show people just how powerful they are. :)  Film and photos don't do justice to the actual experience of feeling it. I've heard of how powerful they are, but seeing one  tested face to face would be cool.
There are plenty of unflown F-1 engines, which impress me every time I see them.  As for a recovered flown and crashed engine, I'm afraid that the public might be disappointed.  For a possible preview, consider the bits and pieces of Challenger STS-51L engine parts that were recovered.  And this damage from a lower velocity situation than S-IC.
http://www.britannica.com/bps/media-view/155150/1/0/0

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 03/29/2012 10:59 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline mduncan36

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #41 on: 03/29/2012 11:07 PM »
I saw several F-1's today at Huntsville Space and Rocket Museum. They have a neat little booth that will shake you up with a replay of the first S1-C test firing there. I would imagine that he's recovering these just for historical purposes than anything else. It's just too easy to see one otherwise. It will be neat but that can't be a cheap process and I'd rather use the money for something else.

Offline Mark Dave

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #42 on: 03/29/2012 11:22 PM »
Too bad the entire S-IC can't be recovered, even if it's in fragments. Put it next to the KSC Saturn V display. The real rocket with the displayed 50/50 real rocket.

S-IC T and S-2, S- IVB 14. And parts or  if we're lucky, the intact recovered S-IC 506.

Offline Namechange User

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #43 on: 03/29/2012 11:27 PM »
I do wonder though how they know they are Apollo 11's and not another stage. 

I guess if they are exactly where they expected, more or less, that suggests something but I haven't seen anything to suggest they went looking and found them on the first day or something of that nature. 
Enjoying viewing the forum a little better now by filtering certain users.

Offline Rahkashi

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #44 on: 03/29/2012 11:43 PM »
As interesting as it is that their is nearly 30 left over engines, I would pick the one that helped put Neil and Buzz on the Moon.

As to OV-106, that's a good question.
« Last Edit: 03/29/2012 11:44 PM by Rahkashi »

Offline woods170

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #45 on: 03/30/2012 07:13 AM »
What about the S-IC itself being recovered? By now from being on the bottom for so long it might be partly collapsed.

S-IC probably broke up during it's fall back to earth due to aerodynamic forces and aeroheating. The thrust-structure and engines might have impacted as a single unit. Whatever remained of S-IC was furthter destroyed when the pieces hit the water at terminal velocity. Only very heavy and very strong components will have survived the impact in a more or less intact form.

Quote
What about the S-IC interstage? It could be found intact and recovered.

No, it won't be found intact. Will have broken up upon impact with the water. Anyone interested in finding the remains of the S-IC interstage (actually it's called the S-II aft interstage) must search further downrange than the main S-IC wreckage. The interstage remained attached to the accelerating S-II stage for nearly 30 seconds after jettison of the S-IC stage.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #46 on: 03/30/2012 10:54 AM »
I do wonder though how they know they are Apollo 11's and not another stage. 

I can't see how they could know that unless they had recovered some items from the debris field that had a serial number on it that they had cross-verified with NASA's records.
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Offline ZANL188

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #47 on: 03/30/2012 02:49 PM »
I do wonder though how they know they are Apollo 11's and not another stage. 

I can't see how they could know that unless they had recovered some items from the debris field that had a serial number on it that they had cross-verified with NASA's records.

My guess is they have found a number of targets, in Newports 5 X 11 impact area, equal to the number of S-ICs that should be there.

If they had a piece of hardware I'm sure we'd have pictures...

Perhaps the sonar is of such quality that they can make out engine bells.

Offline jacqmans

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #48 on: 03/30/2012 08:15 PM »
RELEASE: 12-102

NASA ADMINISTRATOR SUPPORTS APOLLO ENGINE RECOVERY

The following is a statement from NASA Administrator Charles Bolden
regarding the efforts announced this week by Jeff Bezos to recover
main engines from the Saturn V first stage rocket of Apollo 11:

"I would like to thank Jeff Bezos for his communication with NASA
informing us of his historic find. I salute him and his entire team
on this bold venture and wish them all the luck in the world.

"NASA does retain ownership of any artifacts recovered and would
likely offer one of the Saturn V F-1 engines to the Smithsonian
Institution's National Air and Space Museum in Washington under
long-standing arrangements with the institution as the holder of the
national collection of aerospace artifacts.

"If the Smithsonian declines or if a second engine is recovered, we
will work to ensure an engine or other artifacts are available for
display at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, as Jeff requested in his
correspondence with my office. I have directed our staff to begin
work to exercise all appropriate authorities to provide a smooth and
expeditious disposition of any flight hardware recovered.

"I sincerely hope all continues to go well for Jeff and Blue Origin,
and that his team enjoys success and prosperity in every endeavor.
All of us at NASA have our fingers crossed for success in his
upcoming expedition of exploration and discovery."

For more about the Saturn V's F-1 engine, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/history/features/f1_engine.html

For more about NASA, visit:

www.nasa.gov

Offline Malderi

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #49 on: 03/30/2012 08:47 PM »
On the subject of fired F-1's, the first stage of the Saturn V at Johnson Space Center has been fired (the stage and all 5 F-1's). I don't have the book with me, but it's the history of the F-1 engine that goes into where all the remaining articles ended up and where they came from.

Offline robertross

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #50 on: 04/01/2012 01:37 PM »
RELEASE: 12-102

NASA ADMINISTRATOR SUPPORTS APOLLO ENGINE RECOVERY
...

Very well handled by NASA.

Here's hoping for at least two engines being recovered.
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline zerm

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #51 on: 04/04/2012 01:46 PM »
If you get the Apogee book "Saturn" by Lawrie you'll find that he had documented every single F-1 engine, how long it was test fired and where it is today. No need to wonder, or surf- just read.

Jim, as usual, is correct, you can hardly tell which has been fired and which has not. The S-I-C on display at KSC, for example has 3 of its 5 engines that were test fired for full duration. Even looking at it with great care, you cannot tell which has been fired for full duration. One reason for that is simply clever engineering. Anyone watching video of a Saturn V liftoff may notice the dark skirt of flame at the engine outlet. This is a curtian of turbopump exhaust vented from the manifold that surronds the area between the actual outlet and the skirt extension. The core of the combustion flame measured 5570 degrees, but the turbopump exhaust measured just 1465 degrees- a differance of 4505 degrees. Thus, the pump exhaust was used to shield the engine bell extension and augment the heat exchange within the walls of the overall bell (done by recirc. of fuel). On all of the Saturns (C-1, IB and V) turbopump exhaust dispersion was an issue. It evolved between the C-1 and the IB and was cleverly used on the V.

Offline Jester

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #52 on: 04/13/2012 04:50 PM »
so, 2 weeks down the line, any updates ?

Offline AS-503

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #53 on: 04/13/2012 05:20 PM »
To "expand" (pun intended) on the excellent points by Jim and ZERM.

Only the upper half (above the tuarus) of the F-1 nozzle is re-gen cooled.
The lower half (below heat exchanger tuarus) is cooled/shielded by the boundary layer of the turbopump exhaust. (see photo)

There is a shingle like design on the inside of the lower half of the nozzle that the exhaust gasses flow down.

Jim made a great point about the ignition of the unburnt fuel-rich exhaust never quite making its way up to the edge of the bell.

Curiously, when you see videos of the F9 right before first stage cut-off, the upper atmospheric pressure is no longer compressing the expanding plume and there is little atmospheric oxygen to combine with the turbupump exhaust.
These two factors cause the exhaust to greatly over expand right at the exit of the engine bell with a noticably blacker signature than that of lower altitude.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #54 on: 04/13/2012 05:30 PM »
Thinking about this, in order to do a recovery they are probably going to have to cut the engines off of the bottom debris of the stage so that they can raise one or more of them. That is going to be difficult at that depth. Possible, but not necessarily an easy job.

Online kevin-rf

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #55 on: 04/13/2012 05:46 PM »
Thinking about this, in order to do a recovery they are probably going to have to cut the engines off of the bottom debris of the stage so that they can raise one or more of them. That is going to be difficult at that depth. Possible, but not necessarily an easy job.

Or raise the entire piece... It would be a shame if they deface the remains to get a single trinket off of it.

Still not an easy job. A better thing if you ask me, is locate them, declare the site a heritage site and have people go down in mini subs to visit them.
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #56 on: 04/13/2012 06:03 PM »
Thinking about this, in order to do a recovery they are probably going to have to cut the engines off of the bottom debris of the stage so that they can raise one or more of them. That is going to be difficult at that depth. Possible, but not necessarily an easy job.

Or raise the entire piece... It would be a shame if they deface the remains to get a single trinket off of it.

Still not an easy job. A better thing if you ask me, is locate them, declare the site a heritage site and have people go down in mini subs to visit them.
If it was within recreational SCUBA diving limits (130 feet), I'd agree with you, but it's not, so you're limited to science researchers and multi-millionaires or billionaires. A public museum is a better place.
« Last Edit: 04/13/2012 06:03 PM by Robotbeat »
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #57 on: 04/13/2012 07:51 PM »
Or raise the entire piece... It would be a shame if they deface the remains to get a single trinket off of it.

What is the depth?

What is the mass of the five engines plus S-IC?



Offline neilh

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #58 on: 04/13/2012 08:36 PM »
Or raise the entire piece... It would be a shame if they deface the remains to get a single trinket off of it.

What is the depth?

What is the mass of the five engines plus S-IC?


http://www.bezosexpeditions.com/engine-recovery.html

Estimated depth is 14,000 feet. For reference, the Titanic is at around 13,000 feet, and the submarine target of the Glomar Explorer was 17,000ft down.
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #59 on: 08/12/2012 07:28 PM »
Checked the web site listed no updates......any news on this?
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