Author Topic: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor  (Read 52964 times)

Offline Jeff Lerner

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As reported by Alan Boyle over at MSNBC:

Amazon.com's billionaire founder, Jeff Bezos, says he's funded a successful effort to locate the mammoth rocket engines that sent the Apollo 11 mission on the first leg of its mission to the moon — and now he's planning to bring them up from the Atlantic Ocean floor.

Amazon billionaire Jeff Bezos aims to bring up Apollo 11's sunken engines
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/28/10906114-amazon-billionaire-jeff-bezos-aims-to-bring-up-apollo-11s-sunken-engines

And collectSPACE's story written with SPACE.com:

"I'm excited to report that, using state-of-the-art deep sea sonar, the team has found the Apollo 11 engines lying 14,000 feet below the surface, and we're making plans to attempt to raise one or more of them from the ocean floor," Bezos announced on his Expeditions website.

Amazon.com founder finds Apollo 11 moon rocket engines on ocean floor
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-032812a.html

Also see Bezos Expeditions: http://www.bezosexpeditions.com/engine-recovery.html
« Last Edit: 05/14/2013 10:46 PM by Chris Bergin »

Offline EirikV

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Very interesting.
Anyone want to take an educated guess on what condition they will be in? Given a lengthy free fall from ~ 60 km altitude (and wouldn't the heavier end of the stage, with the engines, hit first and completely disintegrate?) and the conditions on the bottom of the Atlantic.

Offline racshot65

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Cool, hopefully there in a reasonably decent condition. I'd pay to go see them at a museum or something.

Offline grakenverb

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There was a thread on this subject a few years ago.  It is cool to see that someone is willing to spend the money to find them. 

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=5881.0

Offline Blackstar

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I sure hope he gets some maritime salvage lawyers on this. They remain property of the U.S. government, and unless he negotiates ahead of time, the Federal Marshals will meet the boat at the pier and immediately impound the artifacts.

Offline collectSPACE

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Bezos has addressed ownership:

Though they've been on the ocean floor for a long time, the engines remain the property of NASA. If we are able to recover one of these F-1 engines that started mankind on its first journey to another heavenly body, I imagine that NASA would decide to make it available to the Smithsonian for all to see. If we're able to raise more than one engine, I've asked NASA if they would consider making it available to the excellent Museum of Flight here in Seattle. (For clarity, I'll point out that no public funding will be used to attempt to raise the engines, as it's being undertaken privately.)

Amazon.com founder finds Apollo 11 moon rocket engines on ocean floor
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-032812a.html
« Last Edit: 03/28/2012 09:03 PM by collectSPACE »

Offline LegendCJS

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I sure hope he gets some maritime salvage lawyers on this. They remain property of the U.S. government, and unless he negotiates ahead of time, the Federal Marshals will meet the boat at the pier and immediately impound the artifacts.

That is really pessimistic of you, beyond the point of reasonableness.  Federal Marshals aren't stormtroopers.
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Online Ronsmytheiii

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So is this how RAC-2 SLS was going to get its engines ;D

Offline Blackstar

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1-That is really pessimistic of you,
2-beyond the point of reasonableness. 
3-Federal Marshals aren't stormtroopers.

1-Thank you!

2-Nope. I suggest you google around a little bit about the salvage of sunken U.S. Navy aircraft and what has happened when people have attempted to raise them. The Navy has stepped in and seized the property and refused to reimburse the salvage costs. (Use the U.S. Naval Aviation Museum in your search attempts.) Also, you might look up the recent case of the Spanish galleon where the gold was all recently returned to Spain, after about 500 years of being on the bottom of the ocean. The U.S. government upheld Spain's right of ownership.

3-They don't have to be stormtroopers in order to enforce the law. All they need to do is show up with a warrant.

Offline QuantumG

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He had to. Couldn't let us profit. Wouldn't be "civilized". - Mal

Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? The slowest possible.

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Offline Lurker Steve

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1-That is really pessimistic of you,
2-beyond the point of reasonableness. 
3-Federal Marshals aren't stormtroopers.

1-Thank you!

2-Nope. I suggest you google around a little bit about the salvage of sunken U.S. Navy aircraft and what has happened when people have attempted to raise them. The Navy has stepped in and seized the property and refused to reimburse the salvage costs. (Use the U.S. Naval Aviation Museum in your search attempts.) Also, you might look up the recent case of the Spanish galleon where the gold was all recently returned to Spain, after about 500 years of being on the bottom of the ocean. The U.S. government upheld Spain's right of ownership.

3-They don't have to be stormtroopers in order to enforce the law. All they need to do is show up with a warrant.

I think if Bezos tells NASA that he is going to deliver the engines to them, they will gladly wait for the delivery truck. Let Amazon Prime handle the free shipping.

I assume NASA wouldn't mind locating one of these engines in a space musuem within a few hundred miles of Bezo's house. 

Have there been any other large engines recovered from the ocean floor after this many years ? Does that fact that they are made from rare metals give them a better chance of surviving intact than a steel hulled ship like the Titanic ?

Offline Blackstar

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I assume NASA wouldn't mind locating one of these engines in a space musuem within a few hundred miles of Bezo's house. 

That's not the same as the legal right to possess the property.

Just look up the U.S. Naval Aviation Museum incidents and you'll see why. In at least one case the salvager claimed to be recovering the wreck to place it in a museum. The U.S. government seized it anyway.

Offline Namechange User

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #13 on: 03/28/2012 10:09 PM »
This is pretty cool!  I like it when people do this kind of thing....

Oh, and Legend, you may not have to like it but Blackstar is completely right and well within bounds to say this.  The fact Bezos has already spoken with NASA and acknowledged this as well just further validates the rationale. 
Enjoying viewing the forum a little better now by filtering certain users.

Offline collectSPACE

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Have there been any other large engines recovered from the ocean floor after this many years? Does that fact that they are made from rare metals give them a better chance of surviving intact than a steel hulled ship like the Titanic?

I think the closest comparison is the raising of the Liberty Bell 7 Mercury spacecraft after nearly 40 years.
« Last Edit: 03/28/2012 10:26 PM by collectSPACE »

Offline Space OurSoul

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #15 on: 03/28/2012 10:18 PM »
Would the other SV first stages be clustered nearby? I've no idea how identical their early trajectories were...
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Offline collectSPACE

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #16 on: 03/28/2012 10:27 PM »
Curt Newport, who led the expedition to find and recover Liberty Bell 7, wrote in 2002 that he concluded that the S-1C boosters from Apollo 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, and 16 landed in roughly a 5 by 11 nautical mile area.

Offline AS-503

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #17 on: 03/28/2012 10:59 PM »
Thanks to Jorge, I found this excellent essay on Apollo launch windows.

http://history.nasa.gov/afj/launchwindow/lw1.html

This document clearly shows the azimuth angle deviation as time changes during the launch window.

Obviously the first stage debris field from each launch will be closer together than the second stage debris field.

Notice also that the Saturn V flies through the center of the Moon's antipode in order to get the right alignment for TLI.

Offline Jim

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #18 on: 03/28/2012 11:10 PM »

Offline jaysvw

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #19 on: 03/29/2012 06:17 AM »
My guess is they already have some sort of visual confirmation (other than sonar) that the engines are in decent shape.  He wouldn't be making press releases and spending millions of dollars to raise F-1 parts.  I always figured that falling from that height would have destroyed everything beyond recognition.
« Last Edit: 03/29/2012 06:18 AM by jaysvw »

Offline woods170

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #20 on: 03/29/2012 06:43 AM »
My guess is they already have some sort of visual confirmation (other than sonar) that the engines are in decent shape.  He wouldn't be making press releases and spending millions of dollars to raise F-1 parts.  I always figured that falling from that height would have destroyed everything beyond recognition.
Not entirely. It all depends on the terminal velocity. Challenger's crew module hit the water at terminal velocity and was destroyed. However, pieces of the crew module were easily identified. Same will have happened to the F-1 engines. They won't be intact, but heavy components, such as the turbopumps and combustion chamber will likely be more or less intact. Don't expect to see engine bells though. They will likely be squashed and torn to shreds.

Offline collectSPACE

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #21 on: 03/29/2012 01:03 PM »
Amazon CEO's moon engine recovery plan piques NASA's, salvage expert's interest
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-032912a.html

A dot-com billionaire's announcement that he had not only located the engines that launched the first manned moon landing mission but was also planning to recover at least one of them from the ocean floor came as just as much a surprise to NASA as it did to the public.

"We read Mr. Bezos's blog post with the same excitement as I am sure others have today," Robert Jacobs, NASA's deputy associate administrator for communications, wrote on Wednesday (March 28) in an e-mail to journalists. "We have not had any formal contact with Mr. Bezos about the Apollo engines but we look forward to hearing more from his team and the recovery expedition."
« Last Edit: 03/29/2012 01:04 PM by collectSPACE »

Offline collectSPACE

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #22 on: 03/29/2012 01:38 PM »
Note that the impact coordinates were not based on tracking or visual observation; but rather were calculated based on flight evaluation and post-flight trajectory reports.

Offline Mark Dave

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #23 on: 03/29/2012 03:27 PM »
Any photos from this expedition?

What about the S-IC itself being recovered? By now from being on the bottom for so long it might be partly collapsed.

What about the S-IC interstage? It could be found intact and recovered.

We may see something like this for this expedition and see what condition the pieces of the rocket are in via mosaic photos and sonar.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2012/04/titanic/titanic-interactive


Offline robertross

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Bezos has addressed ownership:

Though they've been on the ocean floor for a long time, the engines remain the property of NASA. If we are able to recover one of these F-1 engines that started mankind on its first journey to another heavenly body, I imagine that NASA would decide to make it available to the Smithsonian for all to see. If we're able to raise more than one engine, I've asked NASA if they would consider making it available to the excellent Museum of Flight here in Seattle. (For clarity, I'll point out that no public funding will be used to attempt to raise the engines, as it's being undertaken privately.)

Amazon.com founder finds Apollo 11 moon rocket engines on ocean floor
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-032812a.html

Thanks Robert for the clarification.

Very good of Mr. Bezos for doing this.
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #25 on: 03/29/2012 03:47 PM »
By now from being on the bottom for so long it might be partly collapsed.

I imagine the high velocity impact with the ocean may have contributed to that...

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #26 on: 03/29/2012 04:33 PM »
By now from being on the bottom for so long it might be partly collapsed.

I imagine the high velocity impact with the ocean may have contributed to that...

One poster over on NASAWatch suggested that the impact may have destroyed the stage entirely but that the engines and possibly the thrust structure, protected by the bulk of the tanks and hull (think of it as the world's biggest and most expensive 'crumple zone' protection), would have survived largely intact. 
« Last Edit: 03/29/2012 04:35 PM by Ben the Space Brit »
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Offline Jester

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #27 on: 03/29/2012 04:40 PM »
By now from being on the bottom for so long it might be partly collapsed.

I imagine the high velocity impact with the ocean may have contributed to that...

One poster over on NASAWatch suggested that the impact may have destroyed the stage entirely but that the engines and possibly the thrust structure, protected by the bulk of the tanks and hull (think of it as the world's biggest and most expensive 'crumple zone' protection), would have survived largely intact. 

Does that poster understand that it most probably hit engine's first ?

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #28 on: 03/29/2012 05:00 PM »
I've taken out some of my posts and moved them here:

Apollo 11/AS-506 S-IC Stage Impact Analysis
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28468.0

just so people can continue on the Amazon founder story, while I continue on the historic analysis part.

Offline Prober

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Bezos has addressed ownership:

Though they've been on the ocean floor for a long time, the engines remain the property of NASA. If we are able to recover one of these F-1 engines that started mankind on its first journey to another heavenly body, I imagine that NASA would decide to make it available to the Smithsonian for all to see. If we're able to raise more than one engine, I've asked NASA if they would consider making it available to the excellent Museum of Flight here in Seattle. (For clarity, I'll point out that no public funding will be used to attempt to raise the engines, as it's being undertaken privately.)

Amazon.com founder finds Apollo 11 moon rocket engines on ocean floor
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-032812a.html

Thanks Robert for the clarification.

Very good of Mr. Bezos for doing this.

This is a great direction for Mr. Bezos.  He should be rewarded.  Make a pre-agreement with NASA if he gets say 5 engines he can keep one.  Its a fair deal.

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Offline Blackstar

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Make a pre-agreement with NASA if he gets say 5 engines he can keep one.  Its a fair deal.

He's a rich guy, so he's got smart lawyers. Those smart lawyers will hire a maritime salvage expert to advise them. Then they'll strike a deal. It will say something like at no time will Bezos "own" any of the recovered artifacts (and he cannot sell them), but the government will allow him to recover them and possibly restore them provided that they are donated to certain museums with oversight by designated experts (most likely Smithsonian curators). This is essentially what Curt Newport had to do with Grissom's capsule.

In reality, this shouldn't be that hard for the lawyers to work out. Newport regularly conducted salvage of government property under contract, so he was well-versed in all of that. But Bezos will have a legal team and they'll figure it out and come to an agreement.

Offline Paul Adams

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #31 on: 03/29/2012 06:10 PM »
As an aside, are there any F1 engines that have been test fired in museums anywhere, or are there any 100% complete F1 engines anywhere?

It's all in the data.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #32 on: 03/29/2012 06:13 PM »
As an aside, are there any F1 engines that have been test fired in museums anywhere, or are there any 100% complete F1 engines anywhere?


1) Probably. 2) Almost surely. That was one of the seriously considered options for the first stage of SLS.
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #33 on: 03/29/2012 06:18 PM »
As an aside, are there any F1 engines that have been test fired in museums anywhere, or are there any 100% complete F1 engines anywhere?



There was a two-part series in Spaceflight magazine about a year ago that dealt with the remaining F-1s. The author did some great work tracking down the locations of all the remaining F-1s. I think to answer your question, there are many test-fired F-1s in museums, and there are probably quite a few complete F-1s, although lacking the external insulation. I believe (going from memory here) that there were something like 30 complete engines left over at the end of the Apollo program, and some of them went straight into preserved storage in case the program was re-started.

Offline Paul Adams

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #34 on: 03/29/2012 06:20 PM »
As an aside, are there any F1 engines that have been test fired in museums anywhere, or are there any 100% complete F1 engines anywhere?


1) Probably. 2) Almost surely. That was one of the seriously considered options for the first stage of SLS.

Interesting, I would like to see one that has actually be fired, and have been wondering just how complete the engines on display actually are.

Thanks,

Paul
It's all in the data.

Offline Paul Adams

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #35 on: 03/29/2012 06:21 PM »
As an aside, are there any F1 engines that have been test fired in museums anywhere, or are there any 100% complete F1 engines anywhere?



There was a two-part series in Spaceflight magazine about a year ago that dealt with the remaining F-1s. The author did some great work tracking down the locations of all the remaining F-1s. I think to answer your question, there are many test-fired F-1s in museums, and there are probably quite a few complete F-1s, although lacking the external insulation. I believe (going from memory here) that there were something like 30 complete engines left over at the end of the Apollo program, and some of them went straight into preserved storage in case the program was re-started.

Ditto: Interesting, I would like to see one that has actually be fired, and have been wondering just how complete the engines on display actually are.

Thanks,

Paul
It's all in the data.

Offline Jim

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #36 on: 03/29/2012 07:22 PM »

Ditto: Interesting, I would like to see one that has actually be fired,

Most of the ones on display are complete and have been acceptance fired.  Can't really tell the difference at this time.  Fired ones may have some carbon and discoloration, but time has added discoloration too.
« Last Edit: 03/29/2012 07:25 PM by Jim »

Offline robertross

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #37 on: 03/29/2012 08:38 PM »
If Mr Bezos does manage to bring up more than one, I hope the scenario doesn't play out like it did with the awarding of the shuttles to their new retirement homes.
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Offline rdale

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #38 on: 03/29/2012 09:05 PM »
With so many F-1's out there, I can't see that being an issue.

Offline Mark Dave

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #39 on: 03/29/2012 09:46 PM »
I think it would be awesome to see an F-1, one of the non flown engines that is the real thing, be fired up for one test to show people just how powerful they are. :)  Film and photos don't do justice to the actual experience of feeling it. I've heard of how powerful they are, but seeing one  tested face to face would be cool.

I recall on another thread someone told me that part of a Delta or titan first stage was recovered intact from the ocean.  This mentioned to me after asking about the S-IC ocean impact.

Online edkyle99

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #40 on: 03/29/2012 10:57 PM »
I think it would be awesome to see an F-1, one of the non flown engines that is the real thing, be fired up for one test to show people just how powerful they are. :)  Film and photos don't do justice to the actual experience of feeling it. I've heard of how powerful they are, but seeing one  tested face to face would be cool.
There are plenty of unflown F-1 engines, which impress me every time I see them.  As for a recovered flown and crashed engine, I'm afraid that the public might be disappointed.  For a possible preview, consider the bits and pieces of Challenger STS-51L engine parts that were recovered.  And this damage from a lower velocity situation than S-IC.
http://www.britannica.com/bps/media-view/155150/1/0/0

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« Last Edit: 03/29/2012 10:59 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline mduncan36

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #41 on: 03/29/2012 11:07 PM »
I saw several F-1's today at Huntsville Space and Rocket Museum. They have a neat little booth that will shake you up with a replay of the first S1-C test firing there. I would imagine that he's recovering these just for historical purposes than anything else. It's just too easy to see one otherwise. It will be neat but that can't be a cheap process and I'd rather use the money for something else.

Offline Mark Dave

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #42 on: 03/29/2012 11:22 PM »
Too bad the entire S-IC can't be recovered, even if it's in fragments. Put it next to the KSC Saturn V display. The real rocket with the displayed 50/50 real rocket.

S-IC T and S-2, S- IVB 14. And parts or  if we're lucky, the intact recovered S-IC 506.

Offline Namechange User

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #43 on: 03/29/2012 11:27 PM »
I do wonder though how they know they are Apollo 11's and not another stage. 

I guess if they are exactly where they expected, more or less, that suggests something but I haven't seen anything to suggest they went looking and found them on the first day or something of that nature. 
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Offline Rahkashi

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #44 on: 03/29/2012 11:43 PM »
As interesting as it is that their is nearly 30 left over engines, I would pick the one that helped put Neil and Buzz on the Moon.

As to OV-106, that's a good question.
« Last Edit: 03/29/2012 11:44 PM by Rahkashi »

Offline woods170

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #45 on: 03/30/2012 07:13 AM »
What about the S-IC itself being recovered? By now from being on the bottom for so long it might be partly collapsed.

S-IC probably broke up during it's fall back to earth due to aerodynamic forces and aeroheating. The thrust-structure and engines might have impacted as a single unit. Whatever remained of S-IC was furthter destroyed when the pieces hit the water at terminal velocity. Only very heavy and very strong components will have survived the impact in a more or less intact form.

Quote
What about the S-IC interstage? It could be found intact and recovered.

No, it won't be found intact. Will have broken up upon impact with the water. Anyone interested in finding the remains of the S-IC interstage (actually it's called the S-II aft interstage) must search further downrange than the main S-IC wreckage. The interstage remained attached to the accelerating S-II stage for nearly 30 seconds after jettison of the S-IC stage.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #46 on: 03/30/2012 10:54 AM »
I do wonder though how they know they are Apollo 11's and not another stage. 

I can't see how they could know that unless they had recovered some items from the debris field that had a serial number on it that they had cross-verified with NASA's records.
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Offline ZANL188

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #47 on: 03/30/2012 02:49 PM »
I do wonder though how they know they are Apollo 11's and not another stage. 

I can't see how they could know that unless they had recovered some items from the debris field that had a serial number on it that they had cross-verified with NASA's records.

My guess is they have found a number of targets, in Newports 5 X 11 impact area, equal to the number of S-ICs that should be there.

If they had a piece of hardware I'm sure we'd have pictures...

Perhaps the sonar is of such quality that they can make out engine bells.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #48 on: 03/30/2012 08:15 PM »
RELEASE: 12-102

NASA ADMINISTRATOR SUPPORTS APOLLO ENGINE RECOVERY

The following is a statement from NASA Administrator Charles Bolden
regarding the efforts announced this week by Jeff Bezos to recover
main engines from the Saturn V first stage rocket of Apollo 11:

"I would like to thank Jeff Bezos for his communication with NASA
informing us of his historic find. I salute him and his entire team
on this bold venture and wish them all the luck in the world.

"NASA does retain ownership of any artifacts recovered and would
likely offer one of the Saturn V F-1 engines to the Smithsonian
Institution's National Air and Space Museum in Washington under
long-standing arrangements with the institution as the holder of the
national collection of aerospace artifacts.

"If the Smithsonian declines or if a second engine is recovered, we
will work to ensure an engine or other artifacts are available for
display at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, as Jeff requested in his
correspondence with my office. I have directed our staff to begin
work to exercise all appropriate authorities to provide a smooth and
expeditious disposition of any flight hardware recovered.

"I sincerely hope all continues to go well for Jeff and Blue Origin,
and that his team enjoys success and prosperity in every endeavor.
All of us at NASA have our fingers crossed for success in his
upcoming expedition of exploration and discovery."

For more about the Saturn V's F-1 engine, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/history/features/f1_engine.html

For more about NASA, visit:

www.nasa.gov

Offline Malderi

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #49 on: 03/30/2012 08:47 PM »
On the subject of fired F-1's, the first stage of the Saturn V at Johnson Space Center has been fired (the stage and all 5 F-1's). I don't have the book with me, but it's the history of the F-1 engine that goes into where all the remaining articles ended up and where they came from.

Offline robertross

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #50 on: 04/01/2012 01:37 PM »
RELEASE: 12-102

NASA ADMINISTRATOR SUPPORTS APOLLO ENGINE RECOVERY
...

Very well handled by NASA.

Here's hoping for at least two engines being recovered.
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #51 on: 04/04/2012 01:46 PM »
If you get the Apogee book "Saturn" by Lawrie you'll find that he had documented every single F-1 engine, how long it was test fired and where it is today. No need to wonder, or surf- just read.

Jim, as usual, is correct, you can hardly tell which has been fired and which has not. The S-I-C on display at KSC, for example has 3 of its 5 engines that were test fired for full duration. Even looking at it with great care, you cannot tell which has been fired for full duration. One reason for that is simply clever engineering. Anyone watching video of a Saturn V liftoff may notice the dark skirt of flame at the engine outlet. This is a curtian of turbopump exhaust vented from the manifold that surronds the area between the actual outlet and the skirt extension. The core of the combustion flame measured 5570 degrees, but the turbopump exhaust measured just 1465 degrees- a differance of 4505 degrees. Thus, the pump exhaust was used to shield the engine bell extension and augment the heat exchange within the walls of the overall bell (done by recirc. of fuel). On all of the Saturns (C-1, IB and V) turbopump exhaust dispersion was an issue. It evolved between the C-1 and the IB and was cleverly used on the V.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #52 on: 04/13/2012 04:50 PM »
so, 2 weeks down the line, any updates ?

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #53 on: 04/13/2012 05:20 PM »
To "expand" (pun intended) on the excellent points by Jim and ZERM.

Only the upper half (above the tuarus) of the F-1 nozzle is re-gen cooled.
The lower half (below heat exchanger tuarus) is cooled/shielded by the boundary layer of the turbopump exhaust. (see photo)

There is a shingle like design on the inside of the lower half of the nozzle that the exhaust gasses flow down.

Jim made a great point about the ignition of the unburnt fuel-rich exhaust never quite making its way up to the edge of the bell.

Curiously, when you see videos of the F9 right before first stage cut-off, the upper atmospheric pressure is no longer compressing the expanding plume and there is little atmospheric oxygen to combine with the turbupump exhaust.
These two factors cause the exhaust to greatly over expand right at the exit of the engine bell with a noticably blacker signature than that of lower altitude.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #54 on: 04/13/2012 05:30 PM »
Thinking about this, in order to do a recovery they are probably going to have to cut the engines off of the bottom debris of the stage so that they can raise one or more of them. That is going to be difficult at that depth. Possible, but not necessarily an easy job.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #55 on: 04/13/2012 05:46 PM »
Thinking about this, in order to do a recovery they are probably going to have to cut the engines off of the bottom debris of the stage so that they can raise one or more of them. That is going to be difficult at that depth. Possible, but not necessarily an easy job.

Or raise the entire piece... It would be a shame if they deface the remains to get a single trinket off of it.

Still not an easy job. A better thing if you ask me, is locate them, declare the site a heritage site and have people go down in mini subs to visit them.
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #56 on: 04/13/2012 06:03 PM »
Thinking about this, in order to do a recovery they are probably going to have to cut the engines off of the bottom debris of the stage so that they can raise one or more of them. That is going to be difficult at that depth. Possible, but not necessarily an easy job.

Or raise the entire piece... It would be a shame if they deface the remains to get a single trinket off of it.

Still not an easy job. A better thing if you ask me, is locate them, declare the site a heritage site and have people go down in mini subs to visit them.
If it was within recreational SCUBA diving limits (130 feet), I'd agree with you, but it's not, so you're limited to science researchers and multi-millionaires or billionaires. A public museum is a better place.
« Last Edit: 04/13/2012 06:03 PM by Robotbeat »
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #57 on: 04/13/2012 07:51 PM »
Or raise the entire piece... It would be a shame if they deface the remains to get a single trinket off of it.

What is the depth?

What is the mass of the five engines plus S-IC?



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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #58 on: 04/13/2012 08:36 PM »
Or raise the entire piece... It would be a shame if they deface the remains to get a single trinket off of it.

What is the depth?

What is the mass of the five engines plus S-IC?


http://www.bezosexpeditions.com/engine-recovery.html

Estimated depth is 14,000 feet. For reference, the Titanic is at around 13,000 feet, and the submarine target of the Glomar Explorer was 17,000ft down.
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #59 on: 08/12/2012 07:28 PM »
Checked the web site listed no updates......any news on this?
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #60 on: 08/13/2012 07:31 PM »
Checked the web site listed no updates......any news on this?


Yeah I was wondering about that, almost 6 months down the line and nothing.. at least a status update would be nice :)

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #61 on: 08/13/2012 08:43 PM »
Or raise the entire piece... It would be a shame if they deface the remains to get a single trinket off of it.

What is the depth?

What is the mass of the five engines plus S-IC?


http://www.bezosexpeditions.com/engine-recovery.html

Estimated depth is 14,000 feet. For reference, the Titanic is at around 13,000 feet, and the submarine target of the Glomar Explorer was 17,000ft down.

That's serious recovery at that depth.

Its hard to imagine it'd be viable without highly expensive bespoke equipment like the GE. I wonder if Bezos has bitten off more than he can chew.

Offline Downix

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #62 on: 08/14/2012 04:36 AM »
Or raise the entire piece... It would be a shame if they deface the remains to get a single trinket off of it.

What is the depth?

What is the mass of the five engines plus S-IC?


http://www.bezosexpeditions.com/engine-recovery.html

Estimated depth is 14,000 feet. For reference, the Titanic is at around 13,000 feet, and the submarine target of the Glomar Explorer was 17,000ft down.

That's serious recovery at that depth.

Its hard to imagine it'd be viable without highly expensive bespoke equipment like the GE. I wonder if Bezos has bitten off more than he can chew.
GE is for rent you realize, currently between assignments:

http://www.deepwater.com/
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #63 on: 08/14/2012 01:10 PM »
Or raise the entire piece... It would be a shame if they deface the remains to get a single trinket off of it.

What is the depth?

What is the mass of the five engines plus S-IC?


http://www.bezosexpeditions.com/engine-recovery.html

Estimated depth is 14,000 feet. For reference, the Titanic is at around 13,000 feet, and the submarine target of the Glomar Explorer was 17,000ft down.

That's serious recovery at that depth.

Its hard to imagine it'd be viable without highly expensive bespoke equipment like the GE. I wonder if Bezos has bitten off more than he can chew.
GE is for rent you realize, currently between assignments:

http://www.deepwater.com/
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28756.msg891095#msg891095         

the ship holding the stealth boat was the GE.
nope, only assignment is the scrap yard. 
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Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #64 on: 08/14/2012 01:58 PM »
I wonder what the capital investment for one of these ships is. Considering that TransOcean leases them out for 500K per day for a 3-5 yr lease, that's a pretty decent income stream.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #65 on: 08/14/2012 03:24 PM »
I don't think the Glomar Explorer is capable of deep water recovery anymore. It's a drilling exploration vessel and the lifting equipment was removed decades ago.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #66 on: 08/14/2012 05:48 PM »
I don't think the Glomar Explorer is capable of deep water recovery anymore. It's a drilling exploration vessel and the lifting equipment was removed decades ago.

its prob chopped up by now and heading into a blast furnace along with the stealth ship.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #67 on: 08/14/2012 06:05 PM »
I don't think the Glomar Explorer is capable of deep water recovery anymore. It's a drilling exploration vessel and the lifting equipment was removed decades ago.

its prob chopped up by now and heading into a blast furnace along with the stealth ship.


The vessel that holds the stealth ship is the HMB-1 (Hughes Mining Barge 1).  The Glomar Explorer, which actually would have lifted the Soviet sub, was on lease to Marathon Oil to drill in Indonesia through March of 2012, according to the Wikipedia page.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #68 on: 08/15/2012 01:18 PM »
I don't think the Glomar Explorer is capable of deep water recovery anymore. It's a drilling exploration vessel and the lifting equipment was removed decades ago.

its prob chopped up by now and heading into a blast furnace along with the stealth ship.


The vessel that holds the stealth ship is the HMB-1 (Hughes Mining Barge 1).  The Glomar Explorer, which actually would have lifted the Soviet sub, was on lease to Marathon Oil to drill in Indonesia through March of 2012, according to the Wikipedia page.


you could be right, read some conflicting government info. Will check out when time is available.
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #69 on: 08/15/2012 04:18 PM »
I don't think the Glomar Explorer is capable of deep water recovery anymore. It's a drilling exploration vessel and the lifting equipment was removed decades ago.

its prob chopped up by now and heading into a blast furnace along with the stealth ship.


The vessel that holds the stealth ship is the HMB-1 (Hughes Mining Barge 1).  The Glomar Explorer, which actually would have lifted the Soviet sub, was on lease to Marathon Oil to drill in Indonesia through March of 2012, according to the Wikipedia page.


you could be right, read some conflicting government info. Will check out when time is available.

I pointed a link above to the company which operates the Glomar Explorer, but since it seems to have been missed:

http://www.deepwater.com/
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #70 on: 08/16/2012 03:50 PM »
Any news on this expedition?  Weather being a major factor to deal with, and to use Titanic as an example, many expeditions were were scrapped due to weather.  She likes at 12,364 feet.  DKM Bismarck is at 15,000 feet. 

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #71 on: 09/19/2012 06:54 PM »
Another month down the line, and nothing, at least a sign of life would be nice, other then a new kindle fire :)

Offline collectSPACE

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #72 on: 09/19/2012 06:56 PM »
Bezos has no real reason to provide a public update. It would not surprise me in the least if the next we hear from the project is if/when the Smithsonian debuts a recovered engine.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #73 on: 09/20/2012 04:09 AM »
Another month down the line, and nothing, at least a sign of life would be nice, other then a new kindle fire :)

Yeah, but to be realistic, you probably would not expect anything yet. First they've got to get the legal issues ironed out--if he simply went out and grabbed it, the US Marshalls and the Coast Guard would board the ship the second it pulled into port and impound the cargo, maybe even seize the ship. Better to have everybody friendly chatting in a room ahead of time so there are no surprises.

And then he'd have to hire a salvage firm that would spend some time studying the issue. They'd want to look at the photos, if there are photos--and if there aren't, they'd want to take some. And they'd want to look at technical specs to try and figure out what they would have to cut and how they would try to do a retrieval, etc.

And when is the best time to do this kind of retrieval? Probably not hurricane season (i.e. now). Probably the summer. So maybe not until next summer at the earliest.

Personally, I don't expect it to happen. But if he's determined, you would not expect any salvage activity yet.
« Last Edit: 09/20/2012 04:11 AM by Blackstar »

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #74 on: 09/20/2012 12:26 PM »
And when is the best time to do this kind of retrieval? Probably not hurricane season (i.e. now). Probably the summer. So maybe not until next summer at the earliest.

fyi:
Quote
Hurricane season in the Atlantic begins June 1st and ends November 30th.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/

So maybe next spring?
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #75 on: 09/20/2012 01:44 PM »
Hurricane season would not stop this effort. A hurricane would.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #76 on: 09/20/2012 06:52 PM »
Hurricane season would not stop this effort. A hurricane would.

But when you plan to do it, you plan to do it when you are most likely to have good weather (like you build houses in the summer, not the winter). That could explain why they are not doing it now--because they want to do it when they have the highest expectation of good weather.

I personally think that technical issues are going to be their biggest hurdle--i.e. getting a large mass up from extreme depth.
« Last Edit: 09/20/2012 07:21 PM by Blackstar »

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #77 on: 09/23/2012 12:53 PM »
I have a question.  How do they know these are the engines from Apollo 11?  Could they not be from one of the other Saturn Vs launched?   I thought they all followed the same trajectory initially.

Offline RyanC

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #78 on: 09/23/2012 09:18 PM »
Probably by the remains of the S-IC they're attached to. Each S IC was marked with it's serial number in fairly large lettering, in apollo 11s case it would be S-IC-6.

This wiki image of apollo 10s SIC clearly shows the serial
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Ap10-KSC-68C-7912.jpg
« Last Edit: 09/23/2012 09:20 PM by RyanCrierie »

Offline Proponent

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #79 on: 09/24/2012 03:47 AM »
I thought they all followed the same trajectory initially.

To amplify on RyanCrierie's point about stage markings, let me point out that the trajectories varied somewhat, and predicted S-IC mpact points were many kilometers apart (recall that one minute of longitude is a nautical mile or about 1852 meters in linear terms; at 30 degrees latitude, a minute of longitude is about 1600 meters).
« Last Edit: 09/24/2012 03:50 AM by Proponent »

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #80 on: 09/24/2012 12:00 PM »
I thought they all followed the same trajectory initially.

To amplify on RyanCrierie's point about stage markings, let me point out that the trajectories varied somewhat, and predicted S-IC mpact points were many kilometers apart (recall that one minute of longitude is a nautical mile or about 1852 meters in linear terms; at 30 degrees latitude, a minute of longitude is about 1600 meters).

I took a stab at it some time ago....
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28468.0

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #81 on: 09/25/2012 03:27 PM »
... the recent case of the Spanish galleon where the gold was all recently returned to Spain, after about 500 years of being on the bottom of the ocean. The U.S. government upheld Spain's right of ownership.

I remember that, and also remember thinking about whose gold it was before the conquistadors took it.  But I digress...

...there were something like 30 complete engines left over at the end of the Apollo program, and some of them went straight into preserved storage in case the program was re-started.

Another digression I know, but why can't we reverse engineer them and make an F-2?

As to OV-106, that's a good question.

Shoulda been built in 1986.  Congress would have funded it in near unanimity.

Back to the OP:  Pretty cool.
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Offline dasmoth

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #82 on: 03/20/2013 02:35 PM »

Online kevin-rf

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #83 on: 03/20/2013 02:41 PM »
That LOX injector looks incredible!!! Job well done!
« Last Edit: 03/20/2013 02:41 PM by kevin-rf »
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Offline Space Pete

And... he's got a couple:

http://www.bezosexpeditions.com/updates.html

WOW! :o

Amazing to think that those pushed men to the Moon over 40 years ago.

Such a shame Mr. Armstrong isn't here to see them.
« Last Edit: 03/20/2013 03:07 PM by Space Pete »
Electronic Engineer by day, NASASpaceflight's ISS Editor by night | Read my NASASpaceflight articles here

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #85 on: 03/20/2013 03:25 PM »
RELEASE: 13-082

NASA ADMINISTRATOR CONGRATULATES APOLLO ENGINE RECOVERY TEAM

WASHINGTON -- The following is a statement from NASA Administrator
Charles Bolden on the successful recovery of Apollo Saturn V first
stage engines announced Wednesday by Jeff Bezos, the founder and
Chief Executive Officer of the aerospace company Blue Origin and
Amazon.com.

"Nearly one year ago, Jeff Bezos shared with us his plans to recover
F-1 engines that helped power Apollo astronauts to the moon in the
late 1960s and early 1970s. We share the excitement expressed by Jeff
and his team in announcing the recovery of two of the powerful Saturn
V first-stage engines from the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.

"This is a historic find and I congratulate the team for its
determination and perseverance in the recovery of these important
artifacts of our first efforts to send humans beyond Earth orbit.

"We look forward to the restoration of these engines by the Bezos team
and applaud Jeff's desire to make these historic artifacts available
for public display.

"Jeff and his colleagues at Blue Origin are helping to usher in a new
commercial era of space exploration and we are confident our
continued collaboration will soon result in private human access to
space, creating jobs and driving America's leadership in innovation
and exploration."

For more about the Saturn V's F-1 engine and NASA, visit:

http://go.nasa.gov/ZdnMo2

and

http://www.nasa.gov

For more on the Bezos Expeditions, visit:

http://www.bezosexpeditions.com/updates.html

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #86 on: 03/20/2013 04:07 PM »
Earlier in the thread I predicted a recovery "by summer at the earliest." (My reasoning was that they would skip 2012's hurricane season and they'd have to get their legal and technical ducks in a row before trying the recovery.)

Kevin-rf predicted "spring"

So he wins!

(well, technically, they were recovered in winter, but only a stone's throw from spring)

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #87 on: 03/20/2013 04:09 PM »
So here's my next prediction:

He says they have pieces for two. I suspect that was deliberate. If they only got one, there's a danger that somebody would insist that it go in the Smithsonian. So, my guess is that the Smithsonian gets one and the other one goes someplace else, probably near where he lives. But it will have to be in a museum, not in his living room.

Government will retain ownership, however.
« Last Edit: 03/20/2013 04:10 PM by Blackstar »

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #88 on: 03/20/2013 04:11 PM »
Kevin-rf predicted "spring"

So he wins!
So do I get one of the F-1's?
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #89 on: 03/20/2013 04:15 PM »
Kevin-rf predicted "spring"

So he wins!
So do I get one of the F-1's?

The prizes I get when I win are pretty lame, so the prizes people get for beating me are probably pretty lame too.

Sorry.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #90 on: 03/20/2013 04:35 PM »
Well, it is used ;)
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #91 on: 03/20/2013 04:39 PM »
Great news, now comes the tricky part, finding out if they are from Apollo 11

"Many of the original serial numbers are missing or partially missing, which is going to make mission identification difficult. We might see more during restoration."

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #92 on: 03/20/2013 06:19 PM »
Bezos Recovers Apollo Rocket Engines From Bottom of Atlantic | Video

Published on Mar 20, 2013
Bezos Expeditions, led by Amazon and Blue Origin founder Jeff Bezos, located and recovered remains and debris from two F-1 engines that powered Project Apollo's Saturn V rockets. They located and photographed others artifacts as well.

Tony De La Rosa

Offline collectSPACE

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #93 on: 03/20/2013 08:02 PM »
So, my guess is that the Smithsonian gets one and the other one goes someplace else, probably near where he lives. But it will have to be in a museum, not in his living room.

Good guess.

Where the recovered F-1 engines will go on exhibit is still to be decided. Last year, Bezos expressed a desire that if two or more of the engines were successfully raised, one would go on display at The Museum of Flight in Seattle, near where Amazon and Bezos' commercial spaceflight company, Blue Origins, are headquarted.

NASA, which retains ownership of the engines and all of its parts, said it would likely offer one to the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Musuem in Washington, DC.


http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-032013a.html

Offline iamlucky13

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #94 on: 03/20/2013 08:43 PM »
This was posted last year:
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2012/mar/HQ_12-102_Bolden_Bezos_Ap_Eng.html

Quote
NASA does retain ownership of any artifacts recovered and would likely offer one of the Saturn V F-1 engines to the Smithsonian Institution’s National Air and Space Museum in Washington under long-standing arrangements with the institution as the holder of the national collection of aerospace artifacts.

“If the Smithsonian declines or if a second engine is recovered, we will work to ensure an engine or other artifacts are available for display at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, as Jeff requested in his correspondence with my office.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #96 on: 03/20/2013 10:10 PM »
Major kudos to Bezos!  Literally went "Holy ****" when I got the news that they had been recovered.  Thought that the search had been abandoned or greatly delayed (last I heard about it was a good several months ago, haven't been following it since).

Can't wait to see one of these in person.
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #97 on: 03/21/2013 12:08 AM »
It will be fun to see the reaction if these engines are found to come from Apollo 4 or 6, or SL-1 because everyone in the non-spaceflight media and a few in the spaceflight media is instantly assuming that they are all from Apollo 11... as if that was the only S-IC ever dropped in the Atlantic.

I'm sure they focused their efforts in the area where S-I-C 506 is assumed to have come down simply due to the historical context of any find, but that does not ensure that what they have is Apollo 11.

Offline collectSPACE

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #98 on: 03/21/2013 11:21 AM »
...because everyone in the non-spaceflight media and a few in the spaceflight media is instantly assuming that they are all from Apollo 11...

The reason for the focus on Apollo 11 was because when Bezos first announced the find of the engines, he specifically said they were from Apollo 11. From March 2012:

"I'm excited to report that, using state-of-the-art deep sea sonar, the team has found the Apollo 11 engines lying 14,000 feet below the surface, and we're making plans to attempt to raise one or more of them from the ocean floor."

Yesterday's update was devoid of any mission-specific information, other than a note about the recovered parts' serial numbers.

"Many of the original serial numbers are missing or partially missing, which is going to make mission identification difficult. We might see more during restoration."

Offline OV135

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #99 on: 03/21/2013 12:44 PM »
Awesome.

I wonder if there is a map made of the area showing all the pieces of the S-IC stage.   The stage as evident from the photos didn't land intact,but shattered on impact.


If you ask me, I hope another expedition is made to recover more of the S-IC booster and if done give the pieces to KSC to add to their Apollo/Saturn exhibit center. It would be pretty cool to see the S-IC at KSC side by side with the recovered debris of a flown vehicle. I honestly think KSC should get one of the recovered pieces to put with the Saturn V exhibit.
« Last Edit: 03/21/2013 12:53 PM by OV135 »

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #100 on: 03/21/2013 02:29 PM »
Awesome.

I wonder if there is a map made of the area showing all the pieces of the S-IC stage.   The stage as evident from the photos didn't land intact,but shattered on impact.

One of the links on this said the stages impacted at 5,000 MPH.

I assume a battleship or locomotive would shred at that sort of impact, never mind something as fragile as a rocket stage.

cheers, Martin

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #101 on: 03/21/2013 02:38 PM »
Awesome.

I wonder if there is a map made of the area showing all the pieces of the S-IC stage.   The stage as evident from the photos didn't land intact,but shattered on impact.

One of the links on this said the stages impacted at 5,000 MPH.

I assume a battleship or locomotive would shred at that sort of impact, never mind something as fragile as a rocket stage.

cheers, Martin

That kind of velocity is well over hypersonic speed. It's is frankly impossible for a non-aerodynamic expended stage in free-fall to reach that kind of terminal velocity. More likely someone missed a decimal and/or mis-converted between kph and mph when writing the article.
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Offline Jason1701

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #102 on: 03/21/2013 02:50 PM »
Awesome.

I wonder if there is a map made of the area showing all the pieces of the S-IC stage.   The stage as evident from the photos didn't land intact,but shattered on impact.

One of the links on this said the stages impacted at 5,000 MPH.

I assume a battleship or locomotive would shred at that sort of impact, never mind something as fragile as a rocket stage.

cheers, Martin

That kind of velocity is well over hypersonic speed. It's is frankly impossible for a non-aerodynamic expended stage in free-fall to reach that kind of terminal velocity. More likely someone missed a decimal and/or mis-converted between kph and mph when writing the article.

S-IC terminal velocity would be about 130 m/s (290 mph) with Cd = 1.5. Less if it was tumbling.
« Last Edit: 03/21/2013 02:51 PM by Jason1701 »

Offline OV135

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #103 on: 03/21/2013 03:03 PM »
Well in looking at this photo of the Saturn V at KSC. I identified one of the pieces.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ufZlrpPxE8U/TJ5ZwiYneZI/AAAAAAAAHW8/Lo9Y1pArq4k/s1600/IMG_7439.JPG

This piece below matches the stringer structure just above the five F-1 engines. I'm sure there are pieces of similar or slightly larger size out there. Maybe a plate sized chunk of one of the tanks inside the S I-C and the fuel lines in many pieces. It'd be similar to the ET debris of STS-51L with small to medium size pieces recovered.

http://www.collectspace.com/images/news-032013a/010.jpg

This engine looks like it hit so hard it partly buried itself into the mud as evident by the impact crater it formed.  http://www.collectspace.com/images/news-032013a/008.jpg

I think the fins of the S-IC would be intact, having broken off at their attach points to the fairing and now lay somewhere nearby the engines.


This engine piece is telling of what angle the stage hit. http://www.collectspace.com/images/news-032013a/009.jpg

It looks like the stage hit straight down or on it's side.

IMO fellas we need something like this titanic map for the Saturn V expedition. It'd be great seeing something like this where you see the debris as a whole.   This also helps explain how the S I-C landed on the bottom. Heavy items lie closer to the impact point and lighter materials further away.  http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2012/04/titanic/titanic-interactive   


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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #104 on: 03/21/2013 06:55 PM »
One of the links on this said the stages impacted at 5,000 MPH.

I assume a battleship or locomotive would shred at that sort of impact, never mind something as fragile as a rocket stage.

cheers, Martin

That kind of velocity is well over hypersonic speed. It's is frankly impossible for a non-aerodynamic expended stage in free-fall to reach that kind of terminal velocity. More likely someone missed a decimal and/or mis-converted between kph and mph when writing the article.

S-IC terminal velocity would be about 130 m/s (290 mph) with Cd = 1.5. Less if it was tumbling.

You're quite right - I'd mis-read it:-

Quote
We want the hardware to tell its true story, including its 5,000 mile per hour re-entry and subsequent impact with the ocean surface.
http://www.bezosexpeditions.com/updates.html (my highlight)

Given F9's first-stage experience re-entering, I wonder whether S-IC would have broken up during re-entry?

cheers, Martin
« Last Edit: 03/21/2013 06:56 PM by MP99 »

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #105 on: 03/21/2013 07:48 PM »
Awesome.

I wonder if there is a map made of the area showing all the pieces of the S-IC stage.   The stage as evident from the photos didn't land intact,but shattered on impact.


If you ask me, I hope another expedition is made to recover more of the S-IC booster and if done give the pieces to KSC to add to their Apollo/Saturn exhibit center. It would be pretty cool to see the S-IC at KSC side by side with the recovered debris of a flown vehicle. I honestly think KSC should get one of the recovered pieces to put with the Saturn V exhibit.


Jim has already provided a link to a previous thread that answered this question.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28456.msg877949#msg877949
« Last Edit: 03/21/2013 07:49 PM by catdlr »
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #106 on: 03/21/2013 08:00 PM »
So now we see why they never bothered to refurbish those engines for re-use!

Seriously, that's way cool.  Two points for Gryffindor.
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #107 on: 03/21/2013 08:53 PM »
There are some NASA maps showing about where the splash point would be on the S-ICs, most of those are found on NTRS- which is shut down right now.

From what I've read, most of the radar signatures seem to indicate that the S-ICs tended to impact somewhat aft-first. And I recall talking to an old KSC guy several years ago who said that they re-entered the same way and little tumbling was seen once in the lower atmosphere.

There is no question that these are F-1 engine componants BTW.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #108 on: 03/21/2013 09:28 PM »
Saw the retrieval ship just leave Port Canaveral

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #109 on: 03/21/2013 11:23 PM »
From what I've read, most of the radar signatures seem to indicate that the S-ICs tended to impact somewhat aft-first. And I recall talking to an old KSC guy several years ago who said that they re-entered the same way and little tumbling was seen once in the lower atmosphere.


Armchair aerospace engineering from an EE, but I'd expect a spent S-IC to behave similarly to a Shuttle SRB in the lower atmosphere. Low CG and high CP for a nozzle-first descent.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #110 on: 03/22/2013 12:04 AM »
Saw the retrieval ship just leave Port Canaveral

Confirmed, Seabed Worker is headed out to sea on practically the same track she came in on.

Do you think they are going out to the same location to recover more hardware?

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #112 on: 03/22/2013 01:01 AM »
If they're going back out I'd love to see them pull up that hold down post.  Fairly large piece of structure that post is.
« Last Edit: 03/22/2013 05:34 AM by ZANL188 »

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #113 on: 03/22/2013 01:10 AM »
Saw the retrieval ship just leave Port Canaveral

Confirmed, Seabed Worker is headed out to sea on practically the same track she came in on.

Do you think they are going out to the same location to recover more hardware?

INTEGRATOR



Isn't there a ship tracking site where you can track ships based upon their GPS transponders? Could check that.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #114 on: 03/22/2013 01:28 AM »
Saw the retrieval ship just leave Port Canaveral

Confirmed, Seabed Worker is headed out to sea on practically the same track she came in on.

Do you think they are going out to the same location to recover more hardware?

INTEGRATOR



Isn't there a ship tracking site where you can track ships based upon their GPS transponders? Could check that.

try here:  Click on last know position link to show Google Map.

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=259889000
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #115 on: 03/22/2013 01:32 AM »
Awesome.

I wonder if there is a map made of the area showing all the pieces of the S-IC stage.   The stage as evident from the photos didn't land intact,but shattered on impact.



Here are the S-1C coordinates on Google Earth, from when these were posted several years ago in another thread.
« Last Edit: 03/22/2013 01:36 AM by lcs »

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #116 on: 03/22/2013 06:00 AM »
A bit curious that the hold down post is sitting upright on the bottom.  Leads me to believe there is more of the thrust structure intact.

Let's hope Bezos tells the rest of the story...

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #117 on: 03/22/2013 06:32 AM »
Awesome.

I wonder if there is a map made of the area showing all the pieces of the S-IC stage.   The stage as evident from the photos didn't land intact,but shattered on impact.



Here are the S-1C coordinates on Google Earth, from when these were posted several years ago in another thread.


I started doing this for Apollo 11 in this thread, based on NTRS input.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28468.0


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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #118 on: 03/22/2013 07:59 AM »
Well, sweet J***s!! Kudos to Jeff and his team.

And dang, my prediction of what to expect on the ocean floor was reasonbly accurate: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28456.msg878020#msg878020

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #119 on: 03/22/2013 01:44 PM »
Jeff Bezos' ocean-recovered Apollo rocket engines arrive on shore
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-032213a.html

Returning to Cape Canaveral for the first time since they were used to launch a giant Saturn V rocket, the recovered parts from two colossal F-1 engines arrived on shore Thursday (March 21) after more than 40 years being lost at sea.

Photographs: NASA / Kim Shiflett
« Last Edit: 03/22/2013 01:44 PM by collectSPACE »

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #120 on: 03/22/2013 01:54 PM »
I hope someday there will be another recovery expedition to get more of the S I-C stage. 

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #121 on: 03/22/2013 02:34 PM »
..and the LEM descent stage!
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #122 on: 03/23/2013 04:57 PM »
Saw the retrieval ship just leave Port Canaveral

Confirmed, Seabed Worker is headed out to sea on practically the same track she came in on.

Do you think they are going out to the same location to recover more hardware?

INTEGRATOR



Isn't there a ship tracking site where you can track ships based upon their GPS transponders? Could check that.

try here:  Click on last know position link to show Google Map.

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=259889000

As this is all commercial, so probably the answer is no, but they didn't happen to communicate the exact spot they pulled these engines from ?
IF they are from Apollo 11, just curious how close the predictions where
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28468.0

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #123 on: 03/25/2013 09:17 PM »
Jeff Bezos' salvaged rocket engines land in Kansas for conservation
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-032513b.html

The historic NASA rocket engine parts raised off the ocean floor by Amazon founder Jeff Bezos have landed at a Kansas museum, where the 40-year-old artifacts' conservation will soon begin in view of the public.

The Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center announced Monday (March 25) the arrival of more than 25,000 pounds (11,340 kilograms) of Apollo-era F-1 engine components, which just four days earlier had arrived on shore in Cape Canaveral, Fla.

"Raising these artifacts from a depth of three miles below the ocean surface is a herculean task by itself, and we salute Bezos and his entire team for their perseverance and tenacity in the effort," said Jim Remar, Cosmosphere president and chief operating officer. Remar took charge of the conservation portion of the F-1 engine artifacts as they were offloaded at Port Canaveral to begin their trip to the Hutchinson, Kansas, musuem.


The Kansas Cosmosphere will allow the public, both in Hutchinson and online, a chance to watch the conservation effort.

A public observation gallery will soon allow Cosmosphere visitors to see the conservation work in progress. Exhibits about the maritime recovery of these artifacts and others will be housed in the observation area.

In addition, a new website is now under development that will allow the public to watch the progress live online.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #124 on: 03/25/2013 10:59 PM »
Two Saturn V F-1 Engines used during Apollo Recovered

Published on Mar 25, 2013
Two F-1 engines that powered the first stage of the Saturn V rockets that lifted NASA's Apollo missions to the moon were recovered from the Atlantic Ocean March 20 by Jeff Bezos, the founder and Chief Executive Officer of the aerospace company Blue Origin and Amazon.com and arrived at Port Canaveral March 21. The engines will be restored by Bezos' team for public display.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #125 on: 05/14/2013 10:17 PM »
Public invited to see Amazon CEO's moon engines in Kansas
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-051413b.html

The massive moon rocket engines that Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos salvaged from the ocean floor are now undergoing conservation in Kansas and the public is invited to come see.

The Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center will open its new SpaceWorks Observation Gallery on Friday, May 24, where visitors can get a clear view of the conservators as they preserve the parts for two mammoth Apollo Saturn V F-1 rocket engines that powered Americans to the moon. Some of the recovered engine artifacts at the Hutchinson museum weigh as much as 2,000 pounds (907 kilograms), while others are as small as a dime.

"These artifacts give us a magnificent window into history," Kansas Cosmosphere president Jim Remar said. "The F-1 remains the most powerful American liquid-fueled rocket engine ever developed. Studying these [salvaged] engines can provide us a tremendous amount of information about the design of future rockets and spacecraft."
« Last Edit: 05/16/2013 02:32 PM by collectSPACE »

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #126 on: 05/15/2013 07:57 PM »
I'm assuming that efforts to preserve them includes trying to ID them ?

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #127 on: 05/16/2013 02:04 PM »
Public invited to see Amazon CEO's moon engines in Kansas
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-051413b.html

The massive moon rocket engines that Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos salvaged from the ocean floor are now undergoing conversation in Kansas and the public is invited to come see.

The Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center will open its new SpaceWorks Observation Gallery on Friday, May 24, where visitors can get a clear view of the conservators as they preserve the parts for two mammoth Apollo Saturn V F-1 rocket engines that powered Americans to the moon. Some of the recovered engine artifacts at the Hutchinson museum weigh as much as 2,000 pounds (907 kilograms), while others are as small as a dime.

"These artifacts give us a magnificent window into history," Kansas Cosmosphere president Jim Remar said. "The F-1 remains the most powerful American liquid-fueled rocket engine ever developed. Studying these [salvaged] engines can provide us a tremendous amount of information about the design of future rockets and spacecraft."

Going to go out on a limb here and say that the bolded above should have "conservation" as I don't think talking to the parts is going to achieve a whole lot :)

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #128 on: 05/16/2013 02:33 PM »
Going to go out on a limb here and say that the bolded above should have "conservation" as I don't think talking to the parts is going to achieve a whole lot :)

Hah! Indeed — but just imagine if those engine parts could talk, the stories they could tell! (Corrected in original citation). Thanks.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo 11 engines on ocean floor
« Reply #129 on: 05/16/2013 03:00 PM »
Going to go out on a limb here and say that the bolded above should have "conservation" as I don't think talking to the parts is going to achieve a whole lot :)

Hah! Indeed — but just imagine if those engine parts could talk, the stories they could tell! (Corrected in original citation). Thanks.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #130 on: 05/16/2013 06:15 PM »
I've been thinking about a trip to the Cosmosphere. I guess I gotta go now!

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #131 on: 05/21/2013 12:45 PM »
First look at Amazon CEO's historic rocket engines being conserved in Kansas
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-052113a.html

Despite having stood up to the immense thrust needed to launch the mighty Saturn V rocket toward the moon, it turns out that the mammoth F-1 engines that powered the booster's first two-and-a-half minutes of flight were no match for the Atlantic Ocean.

The twisted and tattered remains of at least two engines, salvaged from the seafloor by an expedition organized and funded by Amazon.com CEO Jeff Bezos, are set to go on public view in Kansas on Friday (May 24) as conservators work to preserve them for generations of museum-goers to come.


Photo Gallery: http://www.collectspace.com/f1_firstlook
« Last Edit: 05/21/2013 12:45 PM by collectSPACE »

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #132 on: 05/21/2013 01:08 PM »
Have they identified from which Saturn V the F-1 engines are from?
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #133 on: 05/21/2013 01:19 PM »
Have they identified from which Saturn V the F-1 engines are from?

No, and it may be some time before they can. Also, don't assume they are all from one Saturn V. As noted in the article:

"If you think of an engine as having four components — the turbo pump, the heat exchanger, the thrust structure and the LOX [liquid oxygen] dome — we have two prime pieces of each of those," said Remar. "We actually have five thrust structures, three LOX domes, two turbo pumps and two heat exchangers, and then we have one nozzle."

Remar went on to say, "Based on where it was raised, we're probably talking multiple vehicles, in my opinion. I don't have any concrete data on that, but I would be surprised if it all came from one vehicle."

NASA (Headquarters and Marshall), together with Rocketdyne, are trying to locate the records that would allow the individual parts' serial numbers (either NASA or Rocketdyne numbers) to be traced back to specific vehicles or missions.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #134 on: 05/21/2013 01:37 PM »
I would argue that they where retrieved from a single area (Debris feild) and thus came from a single vehicle. The vehicles did not all come down in the same place.

But I could easily be proved wrong.
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #135 on: 05/21/2013 03:08 PM »
I would argue that they where retrieved from a single area (Debris feild) and thus came from a single vehicle. The vehicles did not all come down in the same place.

But I could easily be proved wrong.

Can't find the map now... but someone made a map of all the reentry points for various Apollo first stages.. Several of them are close enough that the debris fields surely overlap.
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #136 on: 05/22/2013 02:50 AM »
I would argue that they where retrieved from a single area (Debris feild) and thus came from a single vehicle. The vehicles did not all come down in the same place.

But I could easily be proved wrong.

Can't find the map now... but someone made a map of all the reentry points for various Apollo first stages.. Several of them are close enough that the debris fields surely overlap.

Try here:  http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=7086.msg121783#msg121783
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #137 on: 07/19/2013 05:22 PM »
Rocket engine part recovered by Amazon CEO has Apollo 11 history
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-071913a.html

Forty-four years (and three days) after it helped launch the first men to walk on the moon, a huge rocket engine part salvaged from the ocean floor has been positively identified as a historic component of the Apollo 11 lunar landing mission.

"I'm thrilled to share some exciting news," Amazon.com founder and CEO Jeff Bezos wrote Friday (July 19) on his Bezos Expeditions website. "44 years ago tomorrow [July 20] Neil Armstrong stepped onto the moon, and now we have recovered a critical technological marvel that made it all possible."

..."One of the conservators who was scanning the objects with a black light and a special lens filter has made a breakthrough discovery – "2044" – stenciled in black paint on the side of one of the massive thrust chambers," wrote Bezos. "2044 is the Rocketdyne [company] serial number that correlates to NASA number 6044, which is the serial number for F-1 Engine #5 from Apollo 11."

After removing more corrosion from the base of the same thrust chamber, the conservator also found "Unit No 2044" stamped into the massive engine part's metal surface.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #138 on: 07/21/2013 09:24 PM »
Rocket Engine Part Recovered  by Amazon CEO Has Apollo 11 Hishttp://news.yahoo.com/rocket-engine-part-recovered-amazon-ceo-apollo-11-124838031.htmltorylooks like he found the right ones  ;) 
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #139 on: 08/26/2013 10:06 PM »
Watch live as Amazon CEO's Apollo rocket engines are preserved
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-082613b.html

The historic rocket engine parts that Amazon.com CEO Jeff Bezos salvaged from the seafloor have now been launched online, providing the public a live view of the mutli-year effort to conserve the rare artifacts for future museum displays.

The Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center on Monday (Aug. 26) debuted the "Apollo F-1 Conservation" website, where visitors can learn more about the Apollo Saturn V rocket engine parts and view the work being done to save them.

The new site can be found at f1engineconservation.org.

"This recovery and conservation isn't just important to the Cosmosphere, or even the United States," Jim Remar, the president and chief operating officer of the Cosmosphere, said. "These engines represent a time and a program that effected people across the globe. It was important to us to share the process with explorers from all walks of life, so that they might find their own inspiration in this project."

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #140 on: 08/28/2013 12:52 PM »
They have 3 cams up and running on this site of the F-1 redo.
 
http://www.f1engineconservation.org/
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #141 on: 03/17/2014 02:51 PM »
Amazon CEO's F-1 rocket engine recovery team honored by Explorers Club
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-031714a-bezos_f1engines_explorersclub_award.html

The private expedition that successfully recovered from the ocean floor historic NASA moon rocket engines was honored in New York on Saturday (March 15) by a venerable group of explorers, including an astronaut who rode to space atop those very same engines.

The Apollo F-1 Engine Search and Recovery Team, as led by Amazon.com founder and chief executive Jeff Bezos, received the Citation of Merit from The Explorers Club, a professional society that promotes scientific exploration of the land, sea, air and space. The award was presented to Bezos by the club's president Alan Nichols and Apollo 11 astronaut Buzz Aldrin, who in 1969 joined Neil Armstrong to become the first men to walk on the moon.

"We were delighted and honored that Buzz Aldrin made the trip to present the award himself," Bezos wrote on his expedition's website on Sunday. "It's a big honor and well-deserved by a truly remarkable group of explorers."



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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #142 on: 08/04/2015 10:46 PM »
Apollo moon rocket engines recovered by Amazon CEO preserved for display
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-080415a-f1-engines-conservation-cosmosphere.html

Two and a half years after an expedition led by the CEO of Amazon.com raised them off the ocean floor, the historic rocket engine parts that launched NASA astronauts on at least three missions to the moon are now preserved for museum display.

The conservation team at the Cosmosphere International SciEd Center and Space Museum (formerly known as the Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center) in Hutchinson, Kansas completed researching and stabilizing the 25,000 pounds (11,340 kg) of Saturn V F-1 engine parts in June.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #143 on: 11/19/2015 04:31 PM »
Amazon CEO delivers historic NASA moon engines to Seattle museum
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-111915a-bezos-f1-engines-seattle.html

Amazon.com's CEO personally oversaw the delivery of some large artifacts from NASA's history on Thursday (Nov. 19), completing a cross-country shipment that has traveled by truck, boat and rocket.

Jeff Bezos, the online retailer's billionaire founder, came to The Museum of Flight in Seattle to welcome the restored remains of F-1 rocket engines that were used to launch the second and fifth Apollo missions to land astronauts on the moon. Three years ago, Bezos funded the expedition that discovered and raised the massive engine parts from the Atlantic Ocean's floor.

"It took a lot of 21st century underwater tech and an extraordinary team of skilled professionals to find these historical treasures and, thanks to them, NASA, and The Museum of Flight, now a whole new generation of young people will be able to see these amazing engines on display," Bezos said in a statement.

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #144 on: 03/17/2017 06:34 PM »
The museum plans to open the exhibit in about two months: http://www.museumofflight.org/Exhibits/Apollo

Attached are some CGI mock-ups from the website.
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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #145 on: 05/20/2017 05:05 PM »
Quote
Apollo moon rocket engines finally fill a place of honor at Museum of Flight https://www.geekwire.com/2017/apollo-moon-engines-museum-flight/ via @GeekWire

https://twitter.com/museumofflight/status/865599299559632898

Edit to add:

« Last Edit: 05/21/2017 06:40 AM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #146 on: 05/20/2017 05:28 PM »
Quote
Live in the new APOLLO exhibit! @JeffBezos chats with kids about his inspirations and passions! #TMOFAPOLLO

https://twitter.com/museumofflight/status/865968475293888512

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #147 on: 05/20/2017 05:47 PM »
Live in the new APOLLO exhibit! @JeffBezos chats with kids about his inspirations and passions!

Sample question from kid: Can you give me a million dollars?

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Re: Amazon founder finds Apollo engines on ocean floor
« Reply #148 on: 05/20/2017 07:26 PM »
geekwire has a write-up of Jeff Bezos' talk and Q&A with full video:

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/jeff-bezos-kids-apollo/

Edit to add:

« Last Edit: 05/21/2017 06:38 AM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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