Author Topic: SI-C impact  (Read 7942 times)

Offline mastronaut

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SI-C impact
« on: 06/04/2006 07:58 pm »
Could an SI-C stage survive ocean impact and has there ever been an attempt to recover any surviving hardware such as the F1 engines? I've always been curious about locations of the stage on the ocean bottom.

Offline Jim

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Re: SI-C impact
« Reply #1 on: 06/04/2006 08:44 pm »
There was studies of adding drag flaps, parachutes, and floatation devices aid in the recovery of S-IC.  As far as I know, other than cameras, no pieces of an S-IC have been recovered

Offline Mark Dave

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Re: SI-C impact
« Reply #2 on: 06/04/2006 09:12 pm »
The ocean currents would have scattered the debris and buried it. A good example is the Challenger debris scattered by the currents along the bottom or on the surface in a wide area. Also using Titanic as another example, that ship fell 2.5 miles after she spilt in two and now lies in two sections spread apart by 2,000 feet with a large debris field. Imagine the power behind that, 1 inch thick steel decks and hull pieces ripped like paper. Amazing stuff.

Offline edkyle99

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RE: SI-C impact
« Reply #3 on: 06/04/2006 09:49 pm »
Quote
mastronaut - 4/6/2006  2:45 PM

Could an SI-C stage survive ocean impact and has there ever been an attempt to recover any surviving hardware such as the F1 engines? I've always been curious about locations of the stage on the ocean bottom.

The S-IC stages supposedly returned toward the ocean engine-end first, so the engines probably fragmented.  I'm not sure that the stage itself even came down in one piece.  There should be pieces scattered about, but they would be deep and would have been eaten away by nearly 40 years of corrosion, etc..

 - Ed Kyle

Offline mastronaut

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Re: SI-C impact
« Reply #4 on: 06/04/2006 10:34 pm »
Thanks for the info! The reason I asked is, when I visited KSC and saw the Saturn V (when it was still in front of the VAB), the hardware on the various engines, tubing, helium spheres etc. looked as if they were brand new. I even moved to Titusville in 1995-96 to be close to the action getting to witness about six Shuttle and a few unmanned 'birds' including the Titan 4.  I've been reading as much as I can get my hands on about the Saturn vehicles. I own 3 copies of 'Stages to Saturn' (unfortunately none of which is a hardcover) and Alan Lawries 'Saturn', as well as 'The Mighty Saturns' DVD. I was only 10yrs old when Apollo was happening. I spent much of my childhood glued to the TV watching the missions. I wish I had the chance to witness a live launch of a Saturn V, it must have been incredible to behold. Cheers!

Offline Dana

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RE: SI-C impact
« Reply #5 on: 06/04/2006 11:14 pm »
I don't know about a big ol' S-1C, but I do know that a Titan II first stage can do it. Here is a pic of the first stage of Gemini 5's Titan II being recovered from the Atlantic by crewmen from the U.S.S. Dupont. No parachutes, no wings, no drag flaps-just plopped into the water like that! And the very fact that it even survived the Titan II's fire-in-the-hole staging process was a feat in and of itself; the Titan II lit its second stage before jettisoning the first, and on some missions, both manned and unmanned, the moment that second stage engine lit it just blew the first stage to pieces. (As with the rather herky-jerky ride into orbit, hey, the WARHEAD never complained....) Didn't get blown up, didn't get torn apart by aerodynamic forces, fell all that way unassisted, didn't shatter when it hit the water. And they were able to find and recover it.
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Offline mastronaut

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Re: SI-C impact
« Reply #6 on: 06/05/2006 01:02 am »
Very very interesting! One would think it's possible for S-IC stages to survive an impact then. It would be a nice piece for someone's space collection! hmmm...

Offline GLS

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Re: SI-C impact
« Reply #7 on: 06/05/2006 11:08 am »
GLS is go for main engine start!

Offline simonbp

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Re: SI-C impact
« Reply #8 on: 06/05/2006 12:41 pm »
That Titan stage was sitting out the backyard last year of the US Space and Rocket Center, but it dissapped in the fall...

Simon ;)

Offline edkyle99

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RE: SI-C impact
« Reply #9 on: 06/05/2006 02:18 pm »
Quote
Dana - 4/6/2006  6:01 PM

I don't know about a big ol' S-1C, but I do know that a Titan II first stage can do it. Here is a pic of the first stage of Gemini 5's Titan II being recovered from the Atlantic by crewmen from the U.S.S. Dupont. No parachutes, no wings, no drag flaps-just plopped into the water like that! And the very fact that it even survived the Titan II's fire-in-the-hole staging process was a feat in and of itself; the Titan II lit its second stage before jettisoning the first, and on some missions, both manned and unmanned, the moment that second stage engine lit it just blew the first stage to pieces. (As with the rather herky-jerky ride into orbit, hey, the WARHEAD never complained....) Didn't get blown up, didn't get torn apart by aerodynamic forces, fell all that way unassisted, didn't shatter when it hit the water. And they were able to find and recover it.

My recollection is that this Titan II first stage did break apart.  The only portion recovered was the upper, oxidizer tank of the first stage.  The engines and fuel tank broke off and sank.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline wannamoonbase

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RE: SI-C impact
« Reply #10 on: 06/05/2006 03:03 pm »
I have wondered about that too over the years.  Just the Aluminum salvage value should make it worth some divers time.  There are at least 10 out there right?  

Grissoms capsule was deep but in great shape, whatever there are for parts of the S1-C stage should be pretty well preserved.

Some of the alloys in the engines and other components would be worth something too.

I would love to see pictures of some of them at least.  They have to stand out on the bottom like a large house.  If you can find a mercury capsule a S1-C stage should be a piece of cake.
Wildly optimistic prediction, Superheavy recovery on IFT-4 or IFT-5

Offline Jim

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Re: SI-C impact
« Reply #11 on: 06/05/2006 03:17 pm »
Mercury capsule landed by parachute and san.  The S-IC's hit the ocean at high speed.  There wasn't anything remarkable about the alloys used.  Aluminum is cheap and not worth the effort to salvage.

Offline mastronaut

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Re: SI-C impact
« Reply #12 on: 06/06/2006 02:24 am »
Up here in Maine people like to have a lawn ornament, an old tractor, a decrepid plow, I'd sure wow 'em with an old F1 sitting in front of my house! ;>)

Offline mastronaut

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Re: SI-C impact
« Reply #13 on: 06/06/2006 02:28 am »
Jim, is the Titan 1 still being displayed in front of the High School in Titusville? When I lived there in 1995 there was an effort to 'Save the Rocket' has anything been done that you know of?

Offline Jim

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Re: SI-C impact
« Reply #14 on: 06/06/2006 04:44 am »
It was too far gone and disposed of

Offline Rocket Guy

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Offline mastronaut

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Re: SI-C impact
« Reply #16 on: 06/06/2006 04:14 pm »
Thanks for the link Ben, That's really too bad. When I was there I helped to design the 'Save the Rocket' bumper sticker when I worked at Sunrise Graphics in Cocoa. I met Ron Woods there also. Can you tell me how to upload photos? I have a couple I'd like to share. Thanks again. Mark

Offline mastronaut

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Re: SI-C impact
« Reply #17 on: 06/08/2006 04:50 pm »
I put up an album for anyone who wants to check it out. Comments welcome!

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