Author Topic: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements  (Read 71274 times)

Offline joek

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I haven't seen these posted before (at least a collection).  They contain some interesting bits, and while I've posted some excerpts in various threads, but I've undoubtedly missed some important parts.  There's quite a lot to consume, and B.2 and B.4 is where I've spent most of my attention up to this point.

A. CCP Requirements Workshop home page. These are mostly a synopsis of the requirements docs (below).
Oct 4, 2011 Workshop:
1. Requirements Presentation
May 24, 2011 Workshop:
1. CCP Introduction
2. Implementation Approach, Insight/Oversight Methodology, Certification
3. Safety Review Process, Evaluation of Technical Standards, and Ops Concepts and Practices
4. Key Driving Requirements
See also the Program Forum home page which contains some requirements-related docs.

B. CCP Requirements Documents.1
1. CCT-PLN-1100 - Crew Transportation Plan, DRAFT 3.0, April 28, 2011
2. CCT-DRM-1110 - Crew Transportation System Design Reference Missions, DRAFT 4.0, May 4, 2011
3. CCT-PLN-1120 - Crew Transportation Technical Management Processes, DRAFT 1.0, May 5, 2011
4. CCT-REQ-1130 - ISS Crew Transportation and Services Requirements Document, DRAFT 3.0, April 29, 2011
5. CCT-STD-1140 - Crew Transportation Technical Standards and Design Evaluation Criteria, DRAFT 4.0 April 29, 2011
6. CCT-STD-1150 - Crew Transportation Operations Standards, DRAFT 4.0, May 5, 2011

C. Related
1. ESMD-CCTSCR-12.10 Commercial Crew Transportation System Certification Requirements for NASA Low Earth Orbit Missions, Dec 8 2010  (Still relevant?  Not referenced by any of the CCT requirement docs above.)

Happy digging.  Let us know what you find.


1 Also attached as pdf's as all the originals are Word.

edit: Add ESMD-CCTSCR-12.10 per yg1968's comment below.
Update requirements workshop links.
« Last Edit: 10/04/2011 08:37 PM by joek »

Offline yg1968

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #1 on: 08/19/2011 05:59 PM »
There is also this document which doesn't seem to have been updated since December 2010:
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/504982main_CCTSCR_Dec-08_Basic_Web.pdf
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/new_space_enterprise/commercial/cctscr.html

There is also this prior thread on the CCT-REQ-1130:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23304.30
« Last Edit: 08/19/2011 06:01 PM by yg1968 »

Offline joek

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #2 on: 08/20/2011 12:25 AM »
There is also this document which doesn't seem to have been updated since December 2010:
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/504982main_CCTSCR_Dec-08_Basic_Web.pdf

Thanks very much for the reminder; added to the list.  As noted, not sure if it's still in effect or relevant as it's not referenced by any of the other docs.
« Last Edit: 08/20/2011 12:25 AM by joek »

Offline manboy

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #3 on: 08/20/2011 07:29 AM »
I thought this was interesting.

Quote from: CCT-DRM-1110-146207-OTHER-001-002.pdf
The launch of the next rotation mission can occur prior to the departure of the current increment crew working on the ISS, resulting in a handover period where two commercial spacecraft would be docked to the ISS for approximately 7-10 days. If the Commercial Partner has received NASA approval to fly non-NASA crew to the ISS, the CTS will need to provide food, water, clothing, and other logistics for these crewmembers for the docked timeframe, since NASA does not generally pre-position these supplies on the ISS.

Which means typically there will be a minimum of 11 crew members present on ISS during the handover.

EDIT: What's really cool is that CCT-REQ-1130-146207-DRAFT-001-001.pdf lists the pressure suit requirements near the end.
« Last Edit: 08/20/2011 08:50 AM by manboy »
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Offline corrodedNut

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #4 on: 08/20/2011 02:43 PM »
I find the window requirements interesting:

"3.10.15.1 The spacecraft shall have windows excluding hatch windows for piloting tasks for crew use during all flight phases."

"3.10.15.2 The windows shall provide the unobstructed fields-of-view necessary to support crew-piloting tasks during all flight phases."

I assume this means windshield-type windows, similar to Gemini, Apollo and Orion/MPCV.

Soyuz uses a periscope, right? I guess that won't cut it for CCP. CST-100 has this feature baselined (one "forward window"), not sure how Dreamchaser does this docking tail-first. Blue Origin, who knows? As for SpaceX Dragon, haven't seen this in any available documents or concept art, seems like a non-trival change to Dragon's mold-line.
« Last Edit: 08/20/2011 02:46 PM by corrodedNut »

Offline apace

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #5 on: 08/20/2011 02:48 PM »
I find the window requirements interesting:

"3.10.15.1 The spacecraft shall have windows excluding hatch windows for piloting tasks for crew use during all flight phases."

"3.10.15.2 The windows shall provide the unobstructed fields-of-view necessary to support crew-piloting tasks during all flight phases."

I assume this means windshield-type windows, similar to Gemini, Apollo and Orion/MPCV.

Soyuz uses a periscope, right? I guess that won't cut it for CCP. CST-100 has this feature baselined (one "forward window"), not sure how Dreamchaser does this docking tail-first. Blue Origin, who knows? As for SpaceX Dragon, haven't seen this in any available documents or concept art, seems like a non-trival change to Dragon's mold-line.

So we will see some nice changes to Dragon in future ;-)

Offline Cog_in_the_machine

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #6 on: 08/20/2011 03:08 PM »
So we will see some nice changes to Dragon in future ;-)

Sounds like unnecessary changes to me. Can anyone explain what's the point of this requirement?
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Offline erioladastra

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #7 on: 08/20/2011 04:21 PM »
So we will see some nice changes to Dragon in future ;-)

Sounds like unnecessary changes to me. Can anyone explain what's the point of this requirement?

Strictly coming from astronauts who insist that they be able to pilot the craft and that the only way to pilot is to directly see out the window.  Even witht he vehicles that have windows the pilots are neccesarily in front of and will be using some camera support regardless.

Offline apace

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #8 on: 08/20/2011 08:03 PM »
So any idea about the additional windows for Dragon? If I look at the latest animations I see no port-facing windows, only the ones we know already. Or can SpaceX waive this requirements away?

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #9 on: 08/20/2011 08:06 PM »
Why the heck would they exclude a hatch window?

Does NASA want an affordable commercial crew program, or not?
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Offline apace

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #10 on: 08/20/2011 08:29 PM »
Why the heck would they exclude a hatch window?

If you open the hatch in flight, you cannot longer use the window to see through ;-) Haha.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #11 on: 08/20/2011 08:32 PM »
Why the heck would they exclude a hatch window?

If you open the hatch in flight, you cannot longer use the window to see through ;-) Haha.
Wouldn't the hatch be even easier to see through, then? ;)
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Offline apace

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #12 on: 08/20/2011 08:48 PM »
Why the heck would they exclude a hatch window?

If you open the hatch in flight, you cannot longer use the window to see through ;-) Haha.
Wouldn't the hatch be even easier to see through, then? ;)

That was my intention ;-)

Offline Cog_in_the_machine

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #13 on: 08/20/2011 09:13 PM »
So any idea about the additional windows for Dragon?

Assuming that a Gemini-like window is what the requirement dictates, I see a problem. The walls aren't steep enough. Or am I wrong? The only way I see this working is if they put a bigger window on the side, tilt the pilot seat back and fly Dragon sideways somehow (i.e. waste time and therefore money, by making it operate in a completely ridiculous manner).
« Last Edit: 08/22/2011 03:36 AM by Ronsmytheiii »
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Offline apace

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #14 on: 08/20/2011 09:25 PM »
So any idea about the additional windows for Dragon?
Assuming that a Gemini-like window is what the requirement dictates, I see a problem. The walls aren't steep enough.

What about a window in the NDS? Or around it? As the NDS should be smaller in diameter than the CBM, there should be space available.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #15 on: 08/20/2011 09:25 PM »
This requirement (if set in stone) problem is even worse for Dreamchaser, since it will "back into" it's docking.

On Dragon it could be solved by adding a small window (or two) around the docking ring - there might be room for it since the IDSS(?) is smaller than CBM.

This would be similar to the front observation window on Soyuz. (can be seen here: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/08/article-2000582-0C40949300000578-747_472x610.jpg ) But I'm not sure it is used during docking.


« Last Edit: 08/20/2011 09:40 PM by Lars_J »

Offline Cog_in_the_machine

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #16 on: 08/20/2011 09:50 PM »
This requirement (if set in stone) problem is even worse for Dreamchaser, since it will "back into" it's docking.

Rear view mirror :P

Edit to add:
On Dragon it could be solved by adding a small window (or two) around the docking ring - there might be room for it since the IDSS(?) is smaller than CBM.

I figure you also have to think about alignment with the pilot's head and whether it will be sufficient to provide "unobstructed fields-of-view" (whatever that means). Honestly I don't know the ergonomics surrounding this, it's up to the engineers to say if this is feasible and/or desirable.
« Last Edit: 08/20/2011 10:19 PM by Cog_in_the_machine »
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Offline apace

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #17 on: 08/20/2011 10:02 PM »
This requirement (if set in stone) problem is even worse for Dreamchaser, since it will "back into" it's docking.
Rear view mirror :P

Perhaps we can get a few for cheap from Nascar...

Offline joek

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #18 on: 08/20/2011 10:36 PM »
So any idea about the additional windows for Dragon?
Assuming that a Gemini-like window is what the requirement dictates, I see a problem. The walls aren't steep enough. Or am I wrong?

I'd guess it's possible but given the current mold like would require significant indents with consequent reduction in internal volume, and repositioning some of the crew from what's shown in that image.

Offline ChefPat

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Re: Commercial Crew Program (CCP-CTS-CCT) Requirements
« Reply #19 on: 08/20/2011 11:34 PM »
I find the window requirements interesting:

"3.10.15.1 The spacecraft shall have windows excluding hatch windows for piloting tasks for crew use during all flight phases."

"3.10.15.2 The windows shall provide the unobstructed fields-of-view necessary to support crew-piloting tasks during all flight phases."
This sure sounds like a show stopper to me.
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