Author Topic: ESA wants ISS extension to 2020  (Read 2711 times)

Offline Lampyridae

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1646
  • Liked: 64
  • Likes Given: 121
ESA wants ISS extension to 2020
« on: 01/15/2010 03:48 AM »
Posted this in Augustine section as I thought it was more relevant than Live News.

Very interesting development. This of course is not news but at least we're getting some useful tidbits of info out of it. Partly de-crewed ISS? Pooling control centre time? Interesting. I wonder what influence this is having in the back channels? Hopefully we'll know after the meeting in Japan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8456632.stm
« Last Edit: 01/15/2010 03:49 AM by Lampyridae »
SKYLON... The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen's preferred surface-to-orbit conveyance.

Offline MichaelF

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 166
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ESA wants ISS extension to 2020
« Reply #1 on: 01/15/2010 03:56 AM »
Pony up the Euros.

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9229
  • Liked: 1195
  • Likes Given: 786
Re: ESA wants ISS extension to 2020
« Reply #2 on: 01/15/2010 04:03 AM »
So much for the idea of having ESA build a lander. If they don't want to pay for the ISS, they will not want to build a moon lander...
« Last Edit: 01/15/2010 05:00 PM by yg1968 »

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7041
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 578
  • Likes Given: 685
Re: ESA wants ISS extension to 2020
« Reply #3 on: 01/15/2010 11:51 AM »
So much for idea of having ESA build a lander.

ESA would be an odd choice for that contract anyway.  AFAIK, ESA has never even built a robot planetary lander to date, let alone a crewed one.  It is my undertanding that JAXA have better experience in this field.

If ESA should be asked to do anything, it should be to turn ATV into a medium-duration habitat/lab module.  This would be very useful in NEO and other orbiter exploration missions.
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline Analyst

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3337
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: ESA wants ISS extension to 2020
« Reply #4 on: 01/15/2010 11:58 AM »
Huygens, Philae.

Analyst
« Last Edit: 01/15/2010 11:58 AM by Analyst »

Offline robertross

  • Canadian Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17783
  • Westphal, Nova Scotia
  • Liked: 448
  • Likes Given: 3488
Re: ESA wants ISS extension to 2020
« Reply #5 on: 01/15/2010 04:56 PM »
Posted this in Augustine section as I thought it was more relevant than Live News.

Very interesting development. This of course is not news but at least we're getting some useful tidbits of info out of it. Partly de-crewed ISS? Pooling control centre time? Interesting. I wonder what influence this is having in the back channels? Hopefully we'll know after the meeting in Japan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8456632.stm

Great..partly de-crewing ISS...that's counter-productive.

I'm sure the cost reductions they are looking to are based on the shuttle assembly missions. Again, this is why commercial ops to ISS are so important, yet have been deferred by political interests.

And with little science return from orbit on a regular basis, no wonder scientists & companies shy away.

These same problems will haunt us if we want commercial involvement beyond LEO, say on the moon. Here's our chance to fix the problem, and learn from our mistakes.

Enable commercial now, and soon, for the ISS. Do the same if we wish the same level of commitment for lunar ops.

We need a plan, and we need to stick to the plan.
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline simonbp

Re: ESA wants ISS extension to 2020
« Reply #6 on: 01/15/2010 10:40 PM »
Pony up the Euros.

Ditto. ESA can't expect to force an extension without some serious extra cash on their end...
« Last Edit: 01/15/2010 10:41 PM by simonbp »

Offline jongoff

  • Recovering Rocket Plumber/Space Entrepreneur
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6057
  • Lafayette/Broomfield, CO
  • Liked: 2051
  • Likes Given: 701
Re: ESA wants ISS extension to 2020
« Reply #7 on: 01/16/2010 12:03 AM »
Michael and Simon,
I think you're completely misreading this.  The fact of the matter is that with the way ISS is setup, it would be really hard, if not impossible for ESA to keep the ISS going without the US staying involved in it.  I didn't read this as them asking the US to pay everything, I read it more as they want to make sure that the US is willing to stay committed before they commit additional resources to it.

~Jon

Offline mmeijeri

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7442
  • Martijn Meijering
  • NL
  • Liked: 70
  • Likes Given: 162
Re: ESA wants ISS extension to 2020
« Reply #8 on: 01/16/2010 12:47 PM »
One alternative that ESA has mentioned before is cooperation with Bigelow. If Bigelow takes care of the habitat, ESA can focus on a crew transport vehicle. I imagine ESA would still want to do something with ATV/Columbus/ERA technology on the space station side but a crewed vehicle would be really great from their point of view. And if that would be available to commercial users as well just like Ariane...
« Last Edit: 01/16/2010 12:56 PM by mmeijeri »
We will be vic-toooooo-ri-ous!!!

Offline robertross

  • Canadian Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17783
  • Westphal, Nova Scotia
  • Liked: 448
  • Likes Given: 3488
Re: ESA wants ISS extension to 2020
« Reply #9 on: 01/16/2010 02:36 PM »
One alternative that ESA has mentioned before is cooperation with Bigelow. If Bigelow takes care of the habitat, ESA can focus on a crew transport vehicle. I imagine ESA would still want to do something with ATV/Columbus/ERA technology on the space station side but a crewed vehicle would be really great from their point of view. And if that would be available to commercial users as well just like Ariane...

I envision something like this to be part of the 500-day Mars initiative to have test subjects endure long duration in a specially equipped module attached to the ISS, only that in case something goes wrong, they have a safe haven on ISS before help arrives. Great opportunity. Great follow-on for the testing going on in Russia at the moment.
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline arkaska

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3041
  • Sweden
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ESA wants ISS extension to 2020
« Reply #10 on: 01/16/2010 04:50 PM »
I don't see the need for a 500-day mission on board ISS. Don't they have people closed in a smaller space on the ground for testing if the can co-operate for that long and close together? And even if they change the crew on orbit they can still test the systems to see if they can last for 500-day with-out supplies from the ground.

What do they gain in having a 500-day mission in orbit?

Offline robertross

  • Canadian Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17783
  • Westphal, Nova Scotia
  • Liked: 448
  • Likes Given: 3488
Re: ESA wants ISS extension to 2020
« Reply #11 on: 01/16/2010 04:56 PM »
I don't see the need for a 500-day mission on board ISS. Don't they have people closed in a smaller space on the ground for testing if the can co-operate for that long and close together? And even if they change the crew on orbit they can still test the systems to see if they can last for 500-day with-out supplies from the ground.

What do they gain in having a 500-day mission in orbit?

Like I said, already happening on the ground (Russia).
But that is not the same as orbital power systems, life support, partial (or zero) g environment.

We learn to live for that long a period of time in space. Make sure nobody kills another, or goes insane, that sort of stuff...
Your mind needs to know the difference that your isolated. Not the same if you know the escape route is too easy, like opening a door.

Or course Antartica is much closer approximation, so that would be a good 'next step'.

EDIT: further discussion to go here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=16471.msg386135#msg386135
« Last Edit: 01/16/2010 04:57 PM by robertross »
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Tags: