Author Topic: ESA EXPERT: European eXPErimental Reentry Testbed updates  (Read 28313 times)

Offline js117

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Not sure if this is old news.


ESA and Thales Alenia Space to sign development contract for experimental reentry vehicle: media opportunity

 
17 July 2009
On 20 July, ESA will sign a contract with Thales Alenia Space Italy for the development of the European Experimental Reentry Testbed (Expert).
 
The Link

http://www.esa.int/esaHS/SEMJNO916XF_index_0.html

                                  reentry vehicle



« Last Edit: 07/04/2014 05:46 AM by Jester »

Offline nooneofconsequence

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #1 on: 07/31/2009 05:42 PM »
Is this an actively stabilized RV with those tabs? Or are they fixed?

Looks like a high volume, high CG design.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato

Offline Eerie

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #2 on: 07/31/2009 07:14 PM »
Looks like a warhead.
Quote from: Jim
Wrong.

Offline SgtPoivre

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #3 on: 08/02/2009 09:29 AM »
Quote
Looks like a warhead.

I don't know why but I've got the impression that ESA is currently helping Italy to finance the development of all the technologies needed to build an ICBM (except the nuke itself) :

- the launcher through VEGA
- the reentry vehicles through EXPERT

Well I suppose I'm just being paranoid...

Offline Solar_OPS

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #4 on: 08/02/2009 11:14 AM »
Is this an actively stabilized RV with those tabs? Or are they fixed?

Looks like a high volume, high CG design.

It's purely a testbed to gain more flight data in the high atmosphere to validate CFD codes and extrapolation to flight methods. The technology boomed in the last decade(s), but very little flight data was recorded in this period in Europe. The vehicle is really packet with plenty of advanced measurement devices.

Nevertheless, there is no active control during its flight, after separation from the 3rd stage of Volna. Also no TM link during flight. They hope to spot it under the parachute and find it after landing on Kamchatka and recover all recorded data  on-board.

Offline Zond

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #5 on: 08/02/2009 11:36 AM »
Quote
Looks like a warhead.

I don't know why but I've got the impression that ESA is currently helping Italy to finance the development of all the technologies needed to build an ICBM (except the nuke itself) :

- the launcher through VEGA
- the reentry vehicles through EXPERT

Well I suppose I'm just being paranoid...

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/alfa.htm

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #6 on: 08/02/2009 08:04 PM »

The aim of the EXPERT project is to validate aero-thermodynamic models, numeric codes and ground test facilities by data, which was collected in a representative flight environment.

In order to make a good design of future spacecraft more precise data is needed particularly for the following aero-thermodynamic problems:

    * Effectiveness and heating of control surfaces
    * Interaction between shock and boundary layer
    * Transition of boundary layer from laminar to turbulent flow
    * High temperature and gas chemistry effects
    * Interaction between gas and surface such as catalysis and oxidation

The EXPERT capsule is designed in a simple geometry and consists of an ellipsoid in the nose region, which attaches to a conic body over a clothoide. Four even surfaces are cut into the conic body with four fixed flaps.

http://www.dlr.de/bk/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-4517/7393_read-5655/

Old link.

http://www.esa.int/esapub/bulletin/bullet114/chapter4_bul114.pdf


Offline cheesybagel

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #7 on: 08/16/2009 02:14 PM »
Here is a presentation on EXPERT:
http://videolectures.net/tict08_muylaert_eei/

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #8 on: 01/23/2010 09:19 AM »

EXPERT Update

Expert Launch Contract Signed With SRC Makeyev

10 December 2009

The launch operations and vehicle recovery contract for ESA’s European Experimental Re-entry Testbed (Expert) was signed on 2 December in Moscow, Russia, between ESA and the Russian Makeyev State Rocket Centre.

Expert is currently scheduled to be launched on its suborbital trajectory in October 2010.

http://www.esa.int/esaHS/SEMC9A7JT2G_index_0.html

« Last Edit: 01/23/2010 09:20 AM by bolun »

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #9 on: 05/28/2010 08:25 PM »

Expert updates

Expert: European eXPErimental Reentry Testbed (with video)

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/EXPERT/SEMYRKQORVF_0.html

Expert: System overview /General configuration

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/EXPERT/SEM30LQORVF_0.html

Expert: Launch and recovery

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/EXPERT/SEMDHS9J33G_0.html

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #10 on: 08/23/2010 01:18 PM »
From ESA Bulletin Number 143 (August 2010)

Expert

Phase-D of the test bed development is ongoing. Vehicle integration has started at Thales Alenia Space Italy, Turin, to be ready for system tests in October. The schedule for the delivery of the parachute is being negotiated with the Russian supplier. Sufficient margin must be maintained for a launch in spring/summer 2011. Discussions with Russian authorities have secured a launch from a Russian submarine on a Volna rocket.

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/multimedia/publications/ESA-Bulletin-143/pageflip.html

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #11 on: 05/30/2011 07:58 PM »
From ESA Bulletin Number 146 (May 2011)

Expert

Vehicle integration at the Thales Alenia Space Italy is progressing. Agreements to finance the European industrial subcontractors have been confirmed by Belgium, Austria, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Italy. Permission for launch is expected from Russian authorities in time for a mid-2011 launch.

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/multimedia/publications/ESA-Bulletin-146/pageflip.html
« Last Edit: 05/30/2011 08:00 PM by bolun »

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #12 on: 06/29/2011 01:19 PM »
Expert’s reentry flap endures hot baptism
 
29 June 2011

A spacecraft control flap designed for the super-heated hypersonic fall through Earth’s atmosphere has come through testing in the world’s largest plasma wind tunnel to be ready for its first flight next year.

The Expert capsule, studded with around 150 different sensors, is due to fly in spring 2012, sea-launched from a Russian submarine for recovery on Russia’s Kamchatka peninsula.

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM05V3TBPG_index_0.html

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #13 on: 11/23/2011 11:06 AM »
Expert Descent and Landing System Test Campaign

21 November 2011

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/EXPERT/SEMUIAZW5VG_0.html

Quote
The parachute test campaign was concluded successfully in October 2011 and the parachute subsystem is ready for integration with the Expert Vehicle.

Quote
Qualification tests:

- Parachute (Pilot, Drogue and Main) mock-up tests to develop the specific Expert system and packing,
- Static strength tests of the Pilot, Drogue and Main parachutes,
- Dynamic tests of the Pilot, Drogue and Main parachutes,
- Pilot parachute deployment tests using the pneumatic gun,
- Strength tests of the Pilot and supersonic Drogue parachutes using the pneumatic gun, and
- Main Parachute Drop Tests (6 in total), for the qualification of the Main Parachute strength and operations sequence.

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #14 on: 03/09/2012 12:34 PM »
http://esamultimedia.esa.int/multimedia/publications/ESA-Bulletin-149/pageflip.html

From ESA Bulletin 149 (February 2012)

Quote
Expert

The Qualification Review was concluded on 3 November for flight on Volna, its original launch system but, for various reasons, Volna might not be used as the launch vehicle. Meetings with launch service providers have been held to identify an alternative launcher. None of the systems (standard version) offer the atmospheric reentry conditions required, and additional analyses are needed to find launchers able to adapt to unconventional launch conditions. While waiting for a decision on the launch campaign, Expert will be kept in storage in a controlled environment at Thales Alenia Space Italy.

Page 89

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #15 on: 05/30/2012 09:04 PM »
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM8BNZWD2H_index_0.html

From ESA Bulletin 150 (Page 94)

Quote
Expert

Studies are ongoing to identify alternative launchers in Russia (Kosmotras/Dnepr) and in the US (Orbital Sciences/Pegasus). A Technical Assistance Agreement with the US Department of State needs to be approved before discussion with Orbital Sciences can take place. Interest has been expressed by NASA centres in supporting the Expert launch operations and costs in exchange for the reentry data.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #16 on: 05/30/2012 10:50 PM »
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM8BNZWD2H_index_0.html

From ESA Bulletin 150 (Page 94)

Quote
Expert

Studies are ongoing to identify alternative launchers in Russia (Kosmotras/Dnepr) and in the US (Orbital Sciences/Pegasus). A Technical Assistance Agreement with the US Department of State needs to be approved before discussion with Orbital Sciences can take place. Interest has been expressed by NASA centres in supporting the Expert launch operations and costs in exchange for the reentry data.

I'm sorry, but this makes me a little upset.
The USA has prohibited the exchange of space technology between the US and outer countries (I forgot the name of this law). And now NASA wants to help ESA (with doesn't need help with this small program) in exchange of ALL the scientific data (it's an reentry experiment after all).
Another times sorry, but as European citizen I hope ESA will make a deal with Kosmotras (with was the first plan). To let the US know they don't agree with steeling European technology, and thus  violating the US law when it benefited the US. Shame on you America!     

Offline mduncan36

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #17 on: 05/30/2012 11:14 PM »

I'm sorry, but this makes me a little upset.
The USA has prohibited the exchange of space technology between the US and outer countries (I forgot the name of this law). And now NASA wants to help ESA (with doesn't need help with this small program) in exchange of ALL the scientific data (it's an reentry experiment after all).
Another times sorry, but as European citizen I hope ESA will make a deal with Kosmotras (with was the first plan). To let the US know they don't agree with steeling European technology, and thus  violating the US law when it benefited the US. Shame on you America!     

You are referring to ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) that was intended to prevent the traffic in technologies that might be used to produce weapons. Over the decades since WWII the Europeans have benefited in uncountable ways from the free transfer of US developed technologies to them. If the United States signs an agreement to participate in an experiment that is not "steeling" (stealing). Why you think anyone should be ashamed doesn't make much sense to me.

Offline Skyrocket

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #18 on: 05/30/2012 11:18 PM »
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM8BNZWD2H_index_0.html

From ESA Bulletin 150 (Page 94)

Quote
Expert

Studies are ongoing to identify alternative launchers in Russia (Kosmotras/Dnepr) and in the US (Orbital Sciences/Pegasus). A Technical Assistance Agreement with the US Department of State needs to be approved before discussion with Orbital Sciences can take place. Interest has been expressed by NASA centres in supporting the Expert launch operations and costs in exchange for the reentry data.

Has the launch contract with Makeyev for the Volna launch been cancelled?

Offline anik

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #19 on: 05/31/2012 07:27 AM »
Has the launch contract with Makeyev for the Volna launch been cancelled?

You have missed news that Russian Ministry of Defence are not going to give RSM-50 rocket for this launch so the contract can not be carried out.

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #20 on: 06/07/2012 08:36 PM »
http://www.spacenews.com/launch/120607-european-reentry-capsule-grounded.html

Quote
ESA and Russia’s Makeyev State Rocket Center in December 2009 announced a contract for the launch, which at the time was scheduled for late 2010. The launch price, at about 2 million euros, was attractive.

Thales Alenia Space Italy, which is Expert’s prime contractor and also prime contractor for the IXV vehicle, has placed Expert in storage here and has not given up hope that it can be launched in time to demonstrate some of the technologies to be used on IXV in 2014.

“The Russian Ministry of Defense apparently said some months ago that they no longer wish to provide Volna as a space launch vehicle,” one Thales Alenia Space Italy official said June 6 during a visit to the company’s facility here. “There may be a way of bartering the launch with the United States, but we are not sure. It is not so easy for small payloads to find affordable launches these days.”

Offline SpacexULA

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #21 on: 06/07/2012 08:59 PM »
Dang it I was really looking forward to that launch.
No Bucks no Buck Rogers, but at least Flexible path gets you Twiki.

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #22 on: 10/02/2012 08:18 PM »
Europe Still Seeking Launcher For Re-entry Demonstrator

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_09_27_2012_p03-02-500346.xml

Quote
Laurent Serre of the French national research agency Onera says “the Expert capsule is ready for flight. Russia was supposed to launch it but announced it would be canceled. So ESA is looking for alternative to launch and the Expert is stored.”

Offline Oberon_Command

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #23 on: 10/02/2012 08:26 PM »
Would this be an appropriate secondary payload for a Dragon flight?

Offline arkaska

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #24 on: 10/03/2012 07:01 AM »
Would this be an appropriate secondary payload for a Dragon flight?

450kg secondary payload? Seems way to heavy to not have impact on the amount of cargo in Dragon.

Offline baldusi

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #25 on: 10/03/2012 08:49 PM »
Would this be an appropriate secondary payload for a Dragon flight?
It only needs a suborbital insertion. Any good sounding rocket, like the Brazilian VS-40 can do it.

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #26 on: 11/27/2012 01:42 PM »
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMXCD52Q8H_index_0.html

From ESA Bulletin 152 (Page 101)

Quote
Expert

Funding was provided by the ESA General Studies Programme (GSP) to support Thales Alenia Space Italy in carrying out analyses to identify an alternative launch system. The availability of alternative launch systems on the Russian side appears doubtful because of the evolution of the Russian Ministry of Defence policy not to use military systems for civil space missions. A Technical Assistance Agreement to evaluate Expert launch options with US industry and NASA was approved by the US Department of State. Technical discussions with Orbital Sciences for the evaluation of alternative launch vehicles have started.
« Last Edit: 11/27/2012 01:43 PM by bolun »

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #27 on: 03/06/2013 08:10 PM »
http://www.esa.int/About_Us/ESA_Publications/ESA_Bulletin_153_Feb_2013

From ESA Bulletin 153 (Page 82)

Quote
Expert

Investigation into launcher alternatives continued after a Technical Assistance Agreement with Orbital Sciences on Pegasus and Minotaur vehicles. Talks were held with NASA and the US Army for the possible use of a new rapid response system, SWORDS, under development with NASA and the US Army. The updated Athena small launcher family from Lockheed Martin and ATK are also being studied. The most promising options appear to be those with a launch from the southern Alaska towards the north, but associated range safety issues need to be clarified.

« Last Edit: 03/09/2013 01:37 PM by bolun »

Offline simonbp

Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #28 on: 03/06/2013 11:00 PM »
Quote
The most promising options appear to be those with a launch from the southern Alaska towards the north, but associated range safety issues need to be clarified.

Yeah, better give the Russians a heads-up about that... ;)

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #29 on: 05/25/2013 12:21 PM »
http://www.esa.int/About_Us/ESA_Publications/ESA_Bulletin_154_May_2013

From ESA Bulletin 154 (Page 82)

Quote
Expert

Investigation continues for launch alternatives to Volna. The vehicle prime contractor is working with Orbital Sciences (USA) to determine the feasibility of launching Expert on a suborbital trajectory using two different launch systems (Minotaur and Pegasus Light). Talks also continue with NASA and the US Army for the possible use of SWORDS, a new rapid response system, as an option. The updated Athena small launcher family from Lockheed Martin was considered, but may be too costly for Expert objectives. As an alternative, Lockheed has proposed a solid two-stage launch system with hydrazine upper stage that could perform the misión for a lower price, being dropped from a C-17 carrier aircraft. Another possibility could be based on a sounding rocket. Lockheed has also proposed air recovery by helicopter as a way to simplify the choice of the launch site location.

Offline cheesybagel

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #30 on: 06/03/2013 12:37 AM »
Couldn't they use Vega? Or is it too expensive?

It makes sense to talk to Orbital since they own most of the small launcher market. However this is taking forever...

Offline Solar_OPS

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #31 on: 06/12/2013 02:43 PM »
Couldn't they use Vega? Or is it too expensive?

It makes sense to talk to Orbital since they own most of the small launcher market. However this is taking forever...


Using VEGA would multiply the launch cost by about 30...

Offline fatjohn1408

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #32 on: 06/12/2013 02:53 PM »
Would this be an appropriate secondary payload for a Dragon flight?
It only needs a suborbital insertion. Any good sounding rocket, like the Brazilian VS-40 can do it.

Why not use Maxus then?

Offline Skyrocket

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #33 on: 06/12/2013 03:24 PM »
Would this be an appropriate secondary payload for a Dragon flight?
It only needs a suborbital insertion. Any good sounding rocket, like the Brazilian VS-40 can do it.

Why not use Maxus then?

EXPERT might be too heavy and too large for Maxus (a.k.a. Castor IV).

to get some impressions of the size see
http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/EXPERT/MechDesign_Engineering_EXPERT.pdf

Offline Skyrocket

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #34 on: 07/31/2013 09:55 AM »
According to Flightglobal's Hyperbola blog, the preferred launch vehicle is Orbital's Pegasus. If price negotiations are finished by November-December, there mights  some chance for a budget go-ahead and launch in 2014.

Alternatively a launch on Dnepr might also be possible.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2013/07/europes-small-spaceplane-ambitions-get-splashdown-boost/

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #35 on: 12/03/2013 04:07 PM »
http://esamultimedia.esa.int/multimedia/publications/ESA-Bulletin-156/

From ESA Bulletin 156 (Page 83)

Quote
European Experimental Reentry Testbed (EXPERT) Investigation of launch options as alternatives to Volna continues. Discussions took place with Orbital Sciences to study two different launch systems (Pegasus Lite and Minotaur). The two options are feasible. Talks took place with NASA and the US Army for the possible use of a new small launch system, SWORDS, jointly developed by NASA Marshall and the Army. A Technical Assistance Agreement is being prepared with Thales Alenia Space and Lockheed Martin to study the possibility of aerial recovery for the test bed.
« Last Edit: 12/03/2013 04:08 PM by bolun »

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #36 on: 03/18/2014 11:14 AM »
http://www.esa.int/About_Us/ESA_Publications/ESA_Bulletin_157_Feb_2014

From ESA Bulletin 157 (page 90)

Quote
European Experimental Reentry Testbed (EXPERT) Comparisons of alternative launch system options are ongoing, now including also launchers under development in a cooperation between Brazil and DLR. Discussions continue with NASA/US Army and US potential industrial launch service providers in order to present launch and retrieval options by late spring 2014.

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #37 on: 06/30/2014 03:24 PM »
http://www.esa.int/About_Us/ESA_Publications/ESA_Bulletin_158_May_2014

From ESA Bulletin 158 (page 94)

Quote
European Experimental Reentry Testbed (Expert)

Makeyev confirmed that the export authorisation for the recovery parachute was granted by the Russian government. Delivery and integration of the parachute on Expert in Turin (IT) is being planned, together with an extension of the storage until end-2015. The search for an alternative launch system for this suborbital mission continues, in particular in the USA.

Offline Runerdieker

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #38 on: 07/03/2014 12:06 PM »
Why could Expert not be lifted on a M51 SLBM? AFAIK the M51 is still under testing. It does seem to resemble in some ways to the Volna, the first chosen launch vehicle. Or is there a strict limit because of this is a purely military missile?   

Offline gosnold

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #39 on: 07/03/2014 05:51 PM »
The M51 team has other concerns (the last test was a failure).

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: ESA experimental reentry vehicle news
« Reply #40 on: 07/03/2014 06:23 PM »
Why could Expert not be lifted on a M51 SLBM? AFAIK the M51 is still under testing. It does seem to resemble in some ways to the Volna, the first chosen launch vehicle. Or is there a strict limit because of this is a purely military missile?
Part of reason they will not use M51 is MoD said no because A) its in development and B) it contains new  components which at this time may not be used for civilian purposes.

Offline Zond

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Re: ESA EXPERT: European eXPErimental Reentry Testbed updates
« Reply #41 on: 12/05/2014 07:46 PM »
Has there been any update on which vehicle EXPERT will now launch?

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: ESA EXPERT: European eXPErimental Reentry Testbed updates
« Reply #42 on: 12/05/2014 07:57 PM »
Has there been any update on which vehicle EXPERT will now launch?
Studies and intergovernmental negotiations are still ongoing at this time. An annual report on the projects of ESA member states should be expected around March next year. ESA lead for the Project is via DLR again. May have been downgraded in importance.

Offline bolun

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Re: ESA EXPERT: European eXPErimental Reentry Testbed updates
« Reply #43 on: 05/16/2015 08:25 AM »
http://www.esa.int/About_Us/ESA_Publications/ESA_Bulletin_161_1st_quarter_2015

From ESA Bulletin 161 (Page 83)

Quote
The Expert vehicle remains in storage conditions at Thales Alenia Space in Turin.

Offline Skyrocket

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Re: ESA EXPERT: European eXPErimental Reentry Testbed updates
« Reply #44 on: 02/28/2017 10:16 AM »
Any recent info on EXPERT?

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: ESA EXPERT: European eXPErimental Reentry Testbed updates
« Reply #45 on: 02/28/2017 02:48 PM »
Any recent info on EXPERT?
No, but still in storage for a likely launch on a French missile or on VEGA. A vote was deferred at the ministerial meetings at the end of 2016 because the project team hasn't decided on a launcher.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: ESA EXPERT: European eXPErimental Reentry Testbed updates
« Reply #46 on: 04/07/2017 09:01 AM »
No, but still in storage for a likely launch on a French missile or on VEGA. A vote was deferred at the ministerial meetings at the end of 2016 because the project team hasn't decided on a launcher.
I don't think M45, M51, Micro Vega (Z40C-Z9A-Avum, Z23-Z9A-Avum experiences to much aerodynamic loads) Vega are suitable for Expert that only weights about 500kg. I see three options: Taurus-Lite (Orion 50SXLG-Orion50XL-Orion38), VLM-1 (S50-S50-S44) or a new liquid / hybrid rocket (Electron; North Star LV).
I think VLM-1 or NorthStar LV are the most likely, but they only become available around 2020. So Expert will remain shelved for a while.

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