Also if you spin up the ships would mean the solar arrays would then need to withstand partial G forces.
I think Elon stated that the nose would be pointing towards the Sun during flight. I expect for a couple of reasons 1 so solar array could get most energy 2) to limit the effects of solar energy on fuel required for landing.
Also if you spin up the ships would mean the solar arrays would then need to withstand partial G forces. Great idea but probably not realistic
Quote from: corneliussulla on 10/16/2017 03:40 pmI think Elon stated that the nose would be pointing towards the Sun during flight. I expect for a couple of reasons 1 so solar array could get most energy 2) to limit the effects of solar energy on fuel required for landing.During his recent AMA on Reddit Musk said it was to keep the propellant from boiling, since the tanks are not pressurized.QuoteAlso if you spin up the ships would mean the solar arrays would then need to withstand partial G forces. Great idea but probably not realisticAs currently designed the solar panels would not operate properly if two BFS were connected via their noses and spun.Also, I'm not sure anyone knows if there are structural attachments at the nose - which if there isn't then there isn't much to discuss...
Interesting article in part on the effects of living in a low g environment log term.https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/north-america/astronaut-scott-kelly-on-the-devastating-effects-of-a-year-in-space-20170922-gyn9iw.html
Apollo astronauts reported that the capsule was barely livable in long duration tests on the ground, but much more spacious in freefall. Anyone landing on mars will be in space 3-6 months and then on mars for 18+ months. Gravity during the flight will cause more harm than good imo.
Quote from: Aussie_Space_Nut on 10/09/2017 01:45 amInteresting article in part on the effects of living in a low g environment log term.https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/north-america/astronaut-scott-kelly-on-the-devastating-effects-of-a-year-in-space-20170922-gyn9iw.htmlQuote from: intrepidpursuit on 10/19/2017 09:13 pmApollo astronauts reported that the capsule was barely livable in long duration tests on the ground, but much more spacious in freefall. Anyone landing on mars will be in space 3-6 months and then on mars for 18+ months. Gravity during the flight will cause more harm than good imo.Worth reading the Scott Kelly article above if you haven't already. He describes the return to Earth after 340 days as being okay for the first 24-48 hours followed by systemic pain, bloating and rashes that were "much, much worse" than after his 6-month stint. Then "A few months after arriving back on Earth, though, I feel distinctly better."So what I take from that is that adjusting back to life at 1xg after a year at zero gravity is a very severe ordeal. It takes at least twice as long as adjusting to zero gravity in the first place, and unless Mars gravity is sufficient to reverse all the effects of zero/partial gravity, there's a good chance the astronaut will die upon return to Earth. At the very least, it would be worth having some facility/tethered-BFS's in LEO where returning astronauts can be gradually acclimatised back to 1xg rather than returned to the surface immediately.
*snip* there's a good chance the astronaut will die upon return to Earth. *snip*
Quote from: mikelepage on 10/25/2017 02:31 pmQuote from: Aussie_Space_Nut on 10/09/2017 01:45 amInteresting article in part on the effects of living in a low g environment log term.https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/north-america/astronaut-scott-kelly-on-the-devastating-effects-of-a-year-in-space-20170922-gyn9iw.htmlQuote from: intrepidpursuit on 10/19/2017 09:13 pmApollo astronauts reported that the capsule was barely livable in long duration tests on the ground, but much more spacious in freefall. Anyone landing on mars will be in space 3-6 months and then on mars for 18+ months. Gravity during the flight will cause more harm than good imo.Worth reading the Scott Kelly article above if you haven't already. He describes the return to Earth after 340 days as being okay for the first 24-48 hours followed by systemic pain, bloating and rashes that were "much, much worse" than after his 6-month stint. Then "A few months after arriving back on Earth, though, I feel distinctly better."So what I take from that is that adjusting back to life at 1xg after a year at zero gravity is a very severe ordeal. It takes at least twice as long as adjusting to zero gravity in the first place, and unless Mars gravity is sufficient to reverse all the effects of zero/partial gravity, there's a good chance the astronaut will die upon return to Earth. At the very least, it would be worth having some facility/tethered-BFS's in LEO where returning astronauts can be gradually acclimatised back to 1xg rather than returned to the surface immediately.By that logic having gravity on BFS is even worse because colonists will be going through this painful adjustment period and possible death while in transit. Much better to deal with that on earth.
So what I take from that is that adjusting back to life at 1xg after a year at zero gravity is a very severe ordeal. It takes at least twice as long as adjusting to zero gravity in the first place, and unless Mars gravity is sufficient to reverse all the effects of zero/partial gravity, there's a good chance the astronaut will die upon return to Earth.
Paul, what makes you think that crew will make many or even multiple trips?
Has something been said by Musk to suggest one-time only crews?
Quote from: mikelepage on 10/25/2017 02:31 pm*snip* there's a good chance the astronaut will die upon return to Earth. *snip*[Citation Needed]
I don't think the cumulative damage could ever be enough to kill them.
Quote from: Paul451 on 10/26/2017 04:15 amHas something been said by Musk to suggest one-time only crews?Nothing has been said to suggest crew at all. Some people on board will need some training to run life support and kitchen facilities. But many of the passengers being highly qualified there is no reason there would be no one of them qualified. The ship and its flight functions will not need any crew as most flights will be unmanned.
Quote from: mikelepage on 10/25/2017 02:31 pmSo what I take from that is that adjusting back to life at 1xg after a year at zero gravity is a very severe ordeal. It takes at least twice as long as adjusting to zero gravity in the first place, and unless Mars gravity is sufficient to reverse all the effects of zero/partial gravity, there's a good chance the astronaut will die upon return to Earth.So the only issue is whether Mars gravity provides a restorative effect. And IMO, if it's insufficient to restore health after 4-months zero-g, then it's also likely to result in long term damage to permanent settlers even if they landed healthy. That means no colonies on Mars until there's a SF-level revolution in pharma and/or genetic engineering. (Or any base where you weren't on continuous ISS-like health monitoring and exercise/medication regimes.) Which makes the issue of partial-g during transit redundant anyway. Either time on Mars (plus exercise) can undo the damage of 4mths zero-g, or we aren't going to Mars. I can't see a middle-case.
How about centrifuging on Mars? Regular exposure to 1 G in a centrifuge might provide a sufficient prophylactic against the ill effects of long-term low-G exposure.
Quote from: intrepidpursuit on 10/25/2017 02:34 pmQuote from: mikelepage on 10/25/2017 02:31 pmQuote from: Aussie_Space_Nut on 10/09/2017 01:45 amInteresting article in part on the effects of living in a low g environment log term.https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/north-america/astronaut-scott-kelly-on-the-devastating-effects-of-a-year-in-space-20170922-gyn9iw.htmlQuote from: intrepidpursuit on 10/19/2017 09:13 pmApollo astronauts reported that the capsule was barely livable in long duration tests on the ground, but much more spacious in freefall. Anyone landing on mars will be in space 3-6 months and then on mars for 18+ months. Gravity during the flight will cause more harm than good imo.Worth reading the Scott Kelly article above if you haven't already. He describes the return to Earth after 340 days as being okay for the first 24-48 hours followed by systemic pain, bloating and rashes that were "much, much worse" than after his 6-month stint. Then "A few months after arriving back on Earth, though, I feel distinctly better."So what I take from that is that adjusting back to life at 1xg after a year at zero gravity is a very severe ordeal. It takes at least twice as long as adjusting to zero gravity in the first place, and unless Mars gravity is sufficient to reverse all the effects of zero/partial gravity, there's a good chance the astronaut will die upon return to Earth. At the very least, it would be worth having some facility/tethered-BFS's in LEO where returning astronauts can be gradually acclimatised back to 1xg rather than returned to the surface immediately.By that logic having gravity on BFS is even worse because colonists will be going through this painful adjustment period and possible death while in transit. Much better to deal with that on earth.Logic states it’s always better from a health perspective to have 0,39 G on the BSF than zero G.The optimal gravity for health during the different stages of the trips is most likely higher than 0,39 G, and will be dependent on what the effect of Mars gravity has on the human body. That effect is unknown. It could even be that for instance prolonged exposure (years) to 0,8G is more optimal for your health than prolonged exposure to 1G. We just don’t know.