Author Topic: Excalibur Almaz  (Read 204278 times)

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10288
  • Liked: 699
  • Likes Given: 723

Offline publiusr

  • Elite Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1539
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #21 on: 06/01/2007 07:46 pm »
That really does look to be an (DOS) Almaz! Can't tell if its scaled down or not, or uses different materials. Almaz was to be launched by UR-500 Proton.

I wonder if this might just be a mock-up by a high order scam artist. Either that or this is where Russian oil money has been going--that and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-24

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10288
  • Liked: 699
  • Likes Given: 723
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #22 on: 06/01/2007 10:56 pm »

Quote
publiusr - 1/6/2007  12:46 PM  That really does look to be an (DOS) Almaz! Can't tell if its scaled down or not, or uses different materials. Almaz was to be launched by UR-500 Proton.  I wonder if this might just be a mock-up by a high order scam artist. Either that or this is where Russian oil money has been going--that and this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-24

 

The photo represents a real OPS station, albeit one that was cancelled shortly before launch on a Proton. It is a 2nd generation OPS, one with two docking ports.

 


Offline 02hurnella

  • Regular
  • Member
  • Posts: 87
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #23 on: 06/07/2007 07:28 pm »
Proton is man-rated? thats news to me..... What are they gonna launch these things on. Can any ELV's take em? Ariane 5? dare I say it GSLV's? They must have something in mind....

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10288
  • Liked: 699
  • Likes Given: 723
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #24 on: 06/07/2007 11:21 pm »

Quote
02hurnella - 7/6/2007  12:28 PM  Proton is man-rated? thats news to me..... What are they gonna launch these things on. Can any ELV's take em? Ariane 5? dare I say it GSLV's? They must have something in mind....

 

The use of the term "Almaz" by this company is unfortunate, since when people here are talking about launching on Proton, they mean the OPS space station, not the capsules. Even though the capsules HAVE been launched on Protons.  Proton is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too big to launch Almaz capsules into orbit; instead a small EELV would do the trick, or a Soyuz class LV.


Offline Zond

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 228
  • Liked: 56
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #25 on: 06/07/2007 11:55 pm »
The wikipedia article (written by the guy who's writing the blog) about the CEO of Excalibur Almaz, Art Dula, claims they intend to start launches in 2008.

Online jongoff

  • Recovering Rocket Plumber/Space Entrepreneur
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6807
  • Lafayette/Broomfield, CO
  • Liked: 3987
  • Likes Given: 1681
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #26 on: 06/08/2007 06:35 am »
Quote
Danderman - 7/6/2007  4:21 PM

Quote
02hurnella - 7/6/2007  12:28 PM  Proton is man-rated? thats news to me..... What are they gonna launch these things on. Can any ELV's take em? Ariane 5? dare I say it GSLV's? They must have something in mind....

The use of the term "Almaz" by this company is unfortunate, since when people here are talking about launching on Proton, they mean the OPS space station, not the capsules. Even though the capsules HAVE been launched on Protons.  Proton is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too big to launch Almaz capsules into orbit; instead a small EELV would do the trick, or a Soyuz class LV.


Yeah, as I understand it the Excalibur Almaz guys were one of the groups talking with LM about using their "human rated" Atlas V 401 for the job.  It'll be interesting to see where they go with it.

~Jon

Offline publiusr

  • Elite Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1539
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #27 on: 06/16/2007 08:30 pm »
A long stem capsule atop an Atlas. Interesting...

Offline simonbp

  • Science Guy
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7138
  • Liked: 314
  • Likes Given: 183
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #28 on: 06/19/2007 05:47 am »
Quote
jongoff - 8/6/2007  1:35 AM

Yeah, as I understand it the Excalibur Almaz guys were one of the groups talking with LM about using their "human rated" Atlas V 401 for the job.  It'll be interesting to see where they go with it.

To a lower than expected orbit, I'd imagine... (Just kidding ;) )

Simon ;)

Offline Capt. David

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 130
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #29 on: 02/02/2008 12:09 am »
Quote
jongoff - 8/6/2007  2:35 AM

Yeah, as I understand it the Excalibur Almaz guys were one of the groups talking with LM about using their "human rated" Atlas V 401 for the job.  It'll be interesting to see where they go with it.

~Jon

Wouldn't THAT be sweet! A Russian made capsule, launched on an American booster, powered by Russian Engines.

A little update: Qwaltec is developing a Flight Training Plan for Excalibur Almaz.

Regards,

David L. Rickman

Offline libs0n

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
  • Ottawa
  • Liked: 5
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #30 on: 02/02/2008 02:50 am »
Cool gear and all, but what's the point of all this?  Who's paying for it; what's the market?  How could they ever afford an Atlas launch to put just two men up?  Does not compute.

Online docmordrid

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6334
  • Michigan
  • Liked: 4207
  • Likes Given: 2
RE: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #31 on: 02/02/2008 05:34 am »
FWIW Excalibur signed a contract with Ad Astra to investigate the use of their VASIMR engines for asteroid missions;

http://www.adastrarocket.com/AdAstraPressRelease082107.pdf

(Chris: this is quoted from a presser, so copyright issues shouldn't apply)

Quote
PRESS RELEASE 082107-1, August 21, 2007

First agreement for the commercial use
of the VASIMR™ engine signed.

Houston, TX., USA. Ad Astra Rocket
Company, a Delaware corporation based in
Houston, TX. and Excalibur Exploration Ltd.,
a British Company based in Douglas, Isle of
Man, have signed an agreement granting
Excalibur Exploration Ltd. the right of first
refusal to acquire VASIMR engines for
space resource recovery. The VASIMR™
(Variable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma
Rocket) is a high power and high specific
impulse plasma rocket, currently under
development by Ad Astra to support solar
and ultimately nuclear electric in -space
propulsion needs.

The agreement, signed yesterday at Ad
Astra’s Houston headquarters, also provides
for an Excalibur-funded 6-month study to
support the development of a conceptual
asteroid mission using the VASIMR™
engine.

“We are very excited by this historic
agreement and very proud to team up with
such a visionary company as Excalibur
Exploration” said Ad Astra’s Chairman and
CEO, Dr. Franklin Chang Díaz.

“The VASIMR™ is a key enabling
technology for the future of space flight. We
believe this is a great next step for both Ad
Astra and Excalibur, hopefully the first of
many.” said Art Dula, Excalibur Exploration’s
CEO.
>
DM

Online jongoff

  • Recovering Rocket Plumber/Space Entrepreneur
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6807
  • Lafayette/Broomfield, CO
  • Liked: 3987
  • Likes Given: 1681
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #32 on: 02/02/2008 05:38 am »
Quote
libs0n - 1/2/2008  7:50 PM

Cool gear and all, but what's the point of all this?  Who's paying for it; what's the market?  How could they ever afford an Atlas launch to put just two men up?  Does not compute.

I don't know that much about what they're up to (mostly just third or fourth or fifth hand stuff), but I can at least venture a guess about the Atlas question.  A thing to remember is that this is a reusable capsule, so the intention is probably to fly these pretty frequently.  At a moderate flight rate, they could actually probably get the seat-cost down to the point where they could at least compete with Soyuz (especially now that the Russian's are jacking their price up).  The difference is that it would be launched out of the US, training would be in the US, and those actually do make somewhat of a difference to US customers--not having to spend six months training in a foreign country helps.

Of course, it should be noted that they've mentioned plans for taking the design and scaling it to a six-person model as well.

~Jon

Offline libs0n

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
  • Ottawa
  • Liked: 5
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #33 on: 02/02/2008 04:14 pm »
That would still require an annual flight rate that would cost hundreds of millions of dollars; it's still a very high total cost, you just get more bang for your buck.  And its a chicken egg thing; the high capacity must be purchased first to take advantage of low costs high capacity will eventually bring.  I think Soyuz has demonstrated that the market for spaceflight access in the deca-million range is not quite high enough to support such a flight load; after all, they've only flown, what, 5 tourists in as many years?  Also, I believe that nationalistic concerns aren't as relevant as that; these people are affluent space geeks; their mind is on the prize. The Russians jacked up their price because they can, they can just as equally lower it to compete should competition arise.

They have a moderately bright idea of using an existing capsule rather than develop their own, but expanding it because its too limited throws that out the window.  They're better off buying flight articles of the Dragon when it's done, for that's the only company building capsules that fit the bill and will be purchasable, but I doubt at the moment that's workable either. Of course, that's talking from the position of taking them seriously.  I don't see how the legitimacy of the hardware they've acquired, the various people involved, or the contracts they've signed transfers onto them.  I do wonder what the thought behind all this is, because right now I pity whoever is fronting them some money, but perhaps that's not knowable with what little info they've released. I tend to think such an info wall is because there isn't much.

Offline Capt. David

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 130
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #34 on: 02/02/2008 08:17 pm »
It should be noted that the six-manned Almaz capsule configuration was designed years ago at Khrunichev, but the actual construction of the capsule was never funded due to political reasons.

There is also the presumption that this is all about space tourism. Try broadening your field of vision. I suspect there is much more to this than mere space tourism. Near Earth orbit and it's micro-gravity environment has much more to offer than just a pretty view.

And why not wait until the time is right to announce what they're up to? Will Whitehorn is just embarrassing himself by calling his high-altitude rocket-powered glider a "spaceship". I've got a hunch that what's going on at Excalibur Almaz is going to make Virgin Galactic look more like Estes.

Regards,

David L. Rickman

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37440
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #35 on: 02/02/2008 08:30 pm »
Quote
Capt. David - 2/2/2008  4:17 PM

It Near Earth orbit and it's micro-gravity environment has much more to offer than just a pretty view.

Not with using a manned vehicle

Offline rnc

  • Member
  • Posts: 38
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 1
RE: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #36 on: 02/02/2008 09:11 pm »
Very odd. Why on earth (or off) would they want VASMIR? If it really requires megawatts, what is the power source? Has anyone heard of a low power, VASIMIR spin-off?

I can envisage one way to generate MW in orbit, which is to replace a turbopump with a generator and drive it with power pack. Compact, (ignoring the many tons of fuel) but not something I imagine as practical, or efficient. The only other route is nuclear, and there is nothing coming from that direction in the next decade.

This PR looks more like a way to move money around to me.

Offline Capt. David

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 130
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #37 on: 02/02/2008 09:39 pm »
Quote
Jim - 2/2/2008  4:30 PM

Quote
Capt. David - 2/2/2008  4:17 PM

It Near Earth orbit and it's micro-gravity environment has much more to offer than just a pretty view.

Not with using a manned vehicle

The Almaz capsule does have a history of being used as an unmanned science laboratory. For versatility, I can't think of a better design. Apparently, neither can the folks at Khrunichev. Their next generation of spacecraft is based upon this capsule's design.

David L. Rickman

Offline Capt. David

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 130
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #38 on: 02/02/2008 09:45 pm »
Quote
rnc - 2/2/2008  5:11 PM

The only other route is nuclear, and there is nothing coming from that direction in the next decade.


... Nothing that YOU know of.

David L. Rickman

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37440
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Re: Excalibur Almaz
« Reply #39 on: 02/02/2008 10:02 pm »
Quote
Capt. David - 2/2/2008  5:39 PM

Quote
Jim - 2/2/2008  4:30 PM

Quote
Capt. David - 2/2/2008  4:17 PM

It Near Earth orbit and it's micro-gravity environment has much more to offer than just a pretty view.

Not with using a manned vehicle

The Almaz capsule does have a history of being used as an unmanned science laboratory. For versatility, I can't think of a better design. Apparently, neither can the folks at Khrunichev. Their next generation of spacecraft is based upon this capsule's design.


It has limited flight experience and it was long ago, to make such claims.

There are better  platforms , FOTON, being one.
Khrunichev is just digging up an old design (the only one they have) to see it they can make a buck.  It has nothing to with how good it is

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0