Author Topic: Conservation of energy/momentum.  (Read 12902 times)

Offline chazemz

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Re: Conservation of energy/momentum.
« Reply #140 on: 10/31/2017 04:48 PM »
The belt magnets and the hull magnets are repelling each other so we will have the facing poles as north. I will go through some scenarios soon, mostly with electromagnets and hopefully someone will have some constructive comments. 
Rather than coming up with more complicated contraptions, you would be far better served by taking the time to understand why your previous ideas were wrong. Once you do, you should realize why adding more springs/magnets/belts etc cannot change the basic outcomes, which will save you a lot of time and effort in the long run.

As others have suggested, a introductory physics course might help. You might also benefit from spending some time on https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm (spoiler: none of these devices do anything interesting)

Nothing you have posted here is "New Physics" (the subject of the forum) or has any novel or interesting implications concerning "Conservation of energy/momentum"

I am more than happy for you to explain to me where the momentum goes?

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Conservation of energy/momentum.
« Reply #141 on: 10/31/2017 05:03 PM »
The belt magnets and the hull magnets are repelling each other so we will have the facing poles as north. I will go through some scenarios soon, mostly with electromagnets and hopefully someone will have some constructive comments. 
Rather than coming up with more complicated contraptions, you would be far better served by taking the time to understand why your previous ideas were wrong. Once you do, you should realize why adding more springs/magnets/belts etc cannot change the basic outcomes, which will save you a lot of time and effort in the long run.

As others have suggested, a introductory physics course might help. You might also benefit from spending some time on https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm (spoiler: none of these devices do anything interesting)

Nothing you have posted here is "New Physics" (the subject of the forum) or has any novel or interesting implications concerning "Conservation of energy/momentum"

I am more than happy for you to explain to me where the momentum goes?

Assuming you're talking about the magnetic fields, it gets cancelled out by the permanent magnets fixed on the hull. Your magnets are only pushing against each other. The forces involved are balanced, so your spaceship does not travel anywhere.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline hop

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Re: Conservation of energy/momentum.
« Reply #142 on: 10/31/2017 05:04 PM »
I am more than happy for you to explain to me where the momentum goes?
https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/phys101.htm

Offline chazemz

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Re: Conservation of energy/momentum.
« Reply #143 on: 10/31/2017 05:22 PM »
The belt magnets and the hull magnets are repelling each other so we will have the facing poles as north. I will go through some scenarios soon, mostly with electromagnets and hopefully someone will have some constructive comments. 
Rather than coming up with more complicated contraptions, you would be far better served by taking the time to understand why your previous ideas were wrong. Once you do, you should realize why adding more springs/magnets/belts etc cannot change the basic outcomes, which will save you a lot of time and effort in the long run.

As others have suggested, a introductory physics course might help. You might also benefit from spending some time on https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm (spoiler: none of these devices do anything interesting)

Nothing you have posted here is "New Physics" (the subject of the forum) or has any novel or interesting implications concerning "Conservation of energy/momentum"

I am more than happy for you to explain to me where the momentum goes?

Assuming you're talking about the magnetic fields, it gets cancelled out by the permanent magnets fixed on the hull. Your magnets are only pushing against each other. The forces involved are balanced, so your spaceship does not travel anywhere.

You need to stop and think. Your problem is not that it works, but if it does not work. The alternative to it not working is to break most laws of physics. When you turn the motors off you decouple the armature from the stator so breaking the normal escape route. You are right in the magnets pushing against each other (they are electromagnets by the way) but the belt magnets have momentum (see collisions), that momentum must go somewhere and we have set up TINA (there is no alternative). As I have said before, if you are going to start the insults at least back them up with some facts. Nailing your feet to the floor and announcing to me that walking is impossible, as I walk past you makes no sense.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Conservation of energy/momentum.
« Reply #144 on: 10/31/2017 06:00 PM »
The belt magnets and the hull magnets are repelling each other so we will have the facing poles as north. I will go through some scenarios soon, mostly with electromagnets and hopefully someone will have some constructive comments. 
Rather than coming up with more complicated contraptions, you would be far better served by taking the time to understand why your previous ideas were wrong. Once you do, you should realize why adding more springs/magnets/belts etc cannot change the basic outcomes, which will save you a lot of time and effort in the long run.

As others have suggested, a introductory physics course might help. You might also benefit from spending some time on https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm (spoiler: none of these devices do anything interesting)

Nothing you have posted here is "New Physics" (the subject of the forum) or has any novel or interesting implications concerning "Conservation of energy/momentum"

I am more than happy for you to explain to me where the momentum goes?

Assuming you're talking about the magnetic fields, it gets cancelled out by the permanent magnets fixed on the hull. Your magnets are only pushing against each other. The forces involved are balanced, so your spaceship does not travel anywhere.

You need to stop and think. Your problem is not that it works, but if it does not work. The alternative to it not working is to break most laws of physics. When you turn the motors off you decouple the armature from the stator so breaking the normal escape route. You are right in the magnets pushing against each other (they are electromagnets by the way) but the belt magnets have momentum (see collisions), that momentum must go somewhere and we have set up TINA (there is no alternative). As I have said before, if you are going to start the insults at least back them up with some facts. Nailing your feet to the floor and announcing to me that walking is impossible, as I walk past you makes no sense.

But it doesn't work.

None of the laws of physics are in any danger of being broken.

The electromagnets don't transfer any unbalanced momentum when they are switched off because you have a counter-balancing mass on the other side of the belt the electromagnet is fixed to. Even if you didn't, the transfer of momentum would simply reverse once the mass of the electromagnet travels around on the other side of the belt.

You seem to have a hard time understanding this.

I haven't insulted you, and in fact, I don't see where anyone else has insulted you anywhere here in this thread. Informing you that you are wrong in your understanding of physics and that your devices don't do anything interesting is not an insult, it's factual information.
« Last Edit: 10/31/2017 06:01 PM by whitelancer64 »
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline chazemz

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Re: Conservation of energy/momentum.
« Reply #145 on: 10/31/2017 06:27 PM »
The device is enclosed in the box (see diagram) and as I stated earlier, we will add another magnet of the same mass to each belt (all the magnets are electromagnets which at the start are all switched off). The additional magnets will be positioned so that when the motors are switched on, the box will not move. So we switch the motors on and the belts begin to move. When two of the belt magnets are approaching the hull magnets we can switch off the motors and switch on the belt and hull electromagnets. The belt magnets are now able to free wheel towards the hull magnets and since the magnetic orientation is repelling, they collide with the repelling magnetic fields imparting their momentum onto the hull magnets causing the body to move. We do not have to concern ourselves with the slight bounce back. Other configurations ie pull and push back can be considered.

May I suggest you read this again.

Online Lar

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Re: Conservation of energy/momentum.
« Reply #146 on: 10/31/2017 07:03 PM »
perpetual motion machines are off topic. Locked.
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