Author Topic: Proposed Europa Missions  (Read 640896 times)

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1460 on: 09/18/2016 03:29 am »
I think that one thing that could affect extended mission planning for Clipper is the desire to keep it around to support a lander mission.

True, barring the next Congress being stingier but we'll see.  In any case, if it's still functional with or without a lander its use ought to be continued, just like with Cassini, LRO, Opportunity...which collectively are another example of why an extension could be favored.  If it still has fuel and the electronics haven't been fried, keep it going a lil longer.

There is one difference for missions around Jupiter--they have to "fail safe" from a planetary protection standpoint. That means that the policy is not to simply run them until they fail and die. Instead, when it becomes highly likely that they will die, they have to be crashed into a safe body, like Jupiter or a dead moon.

If we were all going to bet on this, the safe money is that Clipper gets delayed a bit, but still flies, and the lander gets delayed a lot, or canceled. That could mean that any lander would arrive many years after Clipper. So the odds of Clipper still being alive to support a lander are slim.

Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1461 on: 09/18/2016 08:27 am »
I think that one thing that could affect extended mission planning for Clipper is the desire to keep it around to support a lander mission.

True, barring the next Congress being stingier but we'll see.  In any case, if it's still functional with or without a lander its use ought to be continued, just like with Cassini, LRO, Opportunity...which collectively are another example of why an extension could be favored.  If it still has fuel and the electronics haven't been fried, keep it going a lil longer.

There is one difference for missions around Jupiter--they have to "fail safe" from a planetary protection standpoint. That means that the policy is not to simply run them until they fail and die. Instead, when it becomes highly likely that they will die, they have to be crashed into a safe body, like Jupiter or a dead moon.

If we were all going to bet on this, the safe money is that Clipper gets delayed a bit, but still flies, and the lander gets delayed a lot, or canceled. That could mean that any lander would arrive many years after Clipper. So the odds of Clipper still being alive to support a lander are slim.

In that case would there be any possibility to move it to Saturn after it has finished at Jupiter, surly Enceladus would be ideal for study with the exact same set of instruments?

Offline Jim

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1462 on: 09/18/2016 11:57 am »
I think that one thing that could affect extended mission planning for Clipper is the desire to keep it around to support a lander mission.

True, barring the next Congress being stingier but we'll see.  In any case, if it's still functional with or without a lander its use ought to be continued, just like with Cassini, LRO, Opportunity...which collectively are another example of why an extension could be favored.  If it still has fuel and the electronics haven't been fried, keep it going a lil longer.

There is one difference for missions around Jupiter--they have to "fail safe" from a planetary protection standpoint. That means that the policy is not to simply run them until they fail and die. Instead, when it becomes highly likely that they will die, they have to be crashed into a safe body, like Jupiter or a dead moon.

If we were all going to bet on this, the safe money is that Clipper gets delayed a bit, but still flies, and the lander gets delayed a lot, or canceled. That could mean that any lander would arrive many years after Clipper. So the odds of Clipper still being alive to support a lander are slim.

In that case would there be any possibility to move it to Saturn after it has finished at Jupiter, surly Enceladus would be ideal for study with the exact same set of instruments?

No, too much delta V would be required

Offline ncb1397

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1463 on: 09/18/2016 06:13 pm »
I think that one thing that could affect extended mission planning for Clipper is the desire to keep it around to support a lander mission.

True, barring the next Congress being stingier but we'll see.  In any case, if it's still functional with or without a lander its use ought to be continued, just like with Cassini, LRO, Opportunity...which collectively are another example of why an extension could be favored.  If it still has fuel and the electronics haven't been fried, keep it going a lil longer.

There is one difference for missions around Jupiter--they have to "fail safe" from a planetary protection standpoint. That means that the policy is not to simply run them until they fail and die. Instead, when it becomes highly likely that they will die, they have to be crashed into a safe body, like Jupiter or a dead moon.

If we were all going to bet on this, the safe money is that Clipper gets delayed a bit, but still flies, and the lander gets delayed a lot, or canceled. That could mean that any lander would arrive many years after Clipper. So the odds of Clipper still being alive to support a lander are slim.

In that case would there be any possibility to move it to Saturn after it has finished at Jupiter, surly Enceladus would be ideal for study with the exact same set of instruments?

No, too much delta V would be required

This study seems to think capture into Saturn orbit could be possible. Europa Clipper can always add mass by doing one earth gravity assist instead of doing a direct flight that adds a year or 2. The real problem is power, not Delta-V. The study below assumes Radio-isotope and so wouldn't be affected as much by distance from the Sun.

Quote
Many additional potential spacecraft disposal
options exist that avoid collision with Europa,
including (but not limited to) the following:
 Jovian system impacting trajectories:
– Jupiter (via short- or long-period
orbits, the latter using solar perturbations)

– Io, Ganymede, or Callisto
 Long-term Jupiter-centered orbits:
– Circular orbit between Ganymede
and Callisto
– Eccentric orbit outside of Callisto
 Jupiter system escape:
– Heliocentric orbit
– Saturn flyby, impactor, or potentially
even capture

– Icy-giant flyby or impactor
– Trojan asteroid flyby or impactor
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/europa2012/ES%202012%20Report%20C%20Flyby%20-%20Final%20-%2020120501.pdf
« Last Edit: 09/18/2016 06:19 pm by ncb1397 »

Offline savuporo

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1464 on: 09/18/2016 06:36 pm »
In that case would there be any possibility to move it to Saturn after it has finished at Jupiter, surly Enceladus would be ideal for study with the exact same set of instruments?
Maybe just build two copies from the get go, like MER
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline as58

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1465 on: 09/18/2016 07:47 pm »
In that case would there be any possibility to move it to Saturn after it has finished at Jupiter, surly Enceladus would be ideal for study with the exact same set of instruments?
Maybe just build two copies from the get go, like MER

I doubt solar power would work at Saturn (at least without huge changes), and getting good enough data rates would probably need some changes to communications. And if you're going to change all that, you'll probably also want to rethink the instrument set...

Offline redliox

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1466 on: 09/18/2016 08:43 pm »
I doubt solar power would work at Saturn (at least without huge changes), and getting good enough data rates would probably need some changes to communications. And if you're going to change all that, you'll probably also want to rethink the instrument set...

Right.  Jupiter is roughly 5-4 percent as much sunlight as Earth, but Saturn is not even 1 percent, which means power production is quartered already.  A Europa mission isn't going to be useful any farther out than Jupiter...

No, too much delta V would be required

This study seems to think capture into Saturn orbit could be possible. Europa Clipper can always add mass by doing one earth gravity assist instead of doing a direct flight that adds a year or 2. The real problem is power, not Delta-V. The study below assumes Radio-isotope and so wouldn't be affected as much by distance from the Sun.

Quote
Many additional potential spacecraft disposal
options exist that avoid collision with Europa,
including (but not limited to) the following:
 Jovian system impacting trajectories:
– Jupiter (via short- or long-period
orbits, the latter using solar perturbations)

– Io, Ganymede, or Callisto
 Long-term Jupiter-centered orbits:
– Circular orbit between Ganymede
and Callisto
– Eccentric orbit outside of Callisto
 Jupiter system escape:
– Heliocentric orbit
– Saturn flyby, impactor, or potentially
even capture

– Icy-giant flyby or impactor
– Trojan asteroid flyby or impactor
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/europa2012/ES%202012%20Report%20C%20Flyby%20-%20Final%20-%2020120501.pdf

Bear in mind the study you reference is about 4 years old now.  Secondly, because of solar power you can instantly cross out Saturn and the Ice Giants not to mention the transfer time would be too long.  However, there hypothetically could be more options...

Io is definitely a good possibility, in part because it's unlikely we'll see another rad-armored probe (which JUICE is not for example) capable of visiting it.  Also because it isn't icy at all, unlike the other Galileans, it would be an excellent body to crash the probe into after a few flybys.  Also, for gravity assists, Io is great to utilize (sparingly of course due to radiation).

Ganymede and Callisto, apart from the primary mission, may be ignored because JUICE is going to study them in greater detail than the Europa mission could.  Callisto could merit some attention since even JUICE won't examine it as extensively as Ganymede.  Either way, they will be visited simply because of their gravity assist use.

If you're interested in leaving Jupiter as a whole, I'd say the best bets would be visiting (at least one of) Jupiter's outermost moons and the Trojans.  Because these bodies are at the same distance as Jupiter, these at least would allow the Europa probe to operate normally and, since the probe is optimized to technically do flybys of Europa, flybys (albeit at larger velocities) outside of Jupiter is a possibility.

So if you're talking exotic extensions, I'd say expect either Io visits or Trojan ones at most.
« Last Edit: 09/18/2016 08:44 pm by redliox »
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Offline Jim

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1467 on: 09/18/2016 09:18 pm »
I think that one thing that could affect extended mission planning for Clipper is the desire to keep it around to support a lander mission.

True, barring the next Congress being stingier but we'll see.  In any case, if it's still functional with or without a lander its use ought to be continued, just like with Cassini, LRO, Opportunity...which collectively are another example of why an extension could be favored.  If it still has fuel and the electronics haven't been fried, keep it going a lil longer.

There is one difference for missions around Jupiter--they have to "fail safe" from a planetary protection standpoint. That means that the policy is not to simply run them until they fail and die. Instead, when it becomes highly likely that they will die, they have to be crashed into a safe body, like Jupiter or a dead moon.

If we were all going to bet on this, the safe money is that Clipper gets delayed a bit, but still flies, and the lander gets delayed a lot, or canceled. That could mean that any lander would arrive many years after Clipper. So the odds of Clipper still being alive to support a lander are slim.

In that case would there be any possibility to move it to Saturn after it has finished at Jupiter, surly Enceladus would be ideal for study with the exact same set of instruments?

No, too much delta V would be required

This study seems to think capture into Saturn orbit could be possible. Europa Clipper can always add mass by doing one earth gravity assist instead of doing a direct flight that adds a year or 2. The real problem is power, not Delta-V. The study below assumes Radio-isotope and so wouldn't be affected as much by distance from the Sun.

Quote
Many additional potential spacecraft disposal
options exist that avoid collision with Europa,
including (but not limited to) the following:
 Jovian system impacting trajectories:
– Jupiter (via short- or long-period
orbits, the latter using solar perturbations)

– Io, Ganymede, or Callisto
 Long-term Jupiter-centered orbits:
– Circular orbit between Ganymede
and Callisto
– Eccentric orbit outside of Callisto
 Jupiter system escape:
– Heliocentric orbit
– Saturn flyby, impactor, or potentially
even capture

– Icy-giant flyby or impactor
– Trojan asteroid flyby or impactor
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/europa2012/ES%202012%20Report%20C%20Flyby%20-%20Final%20-%2020120501.pdf

He was talking about a probe  going from Jupiter orbit to Saturn orbit. 

Offline redliox

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1468 on: 11/29/2016 06:33 am »
Here's a proposal for a daughter craft I hadn't heard of before: http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2016/pdf/2602.pdf

Biosignature Explorer for Europa (BEE)

I know the likelihood of a daughter spacecraft is unlikely, especially since a Europa Lander is (at least mostly) officially tagged to follow, but this particular proposal is from 2016 with some decent details.

It's payload would consist of 3 cameras covering UV, visible, and IR (nothing mentioned about if these are spectrometers or not; I'd assume if it's simplicity they're after, presumably cameras with lenses), a mass spectrometer, and a gas chromatograph.  In Deep Impact/LCROSS-esque fashion (minus the impact), it would use specifically the UV camera to zero in on a plume and fly through with an active propulsion system adjusting course.  The craft would be battery powered and under the 250kg limit.

Not a bad idea itself, just unsure how likely it would be.  The Europa Clipper Flyby Orbiter could easily do the same job during a mission extension, and the required funding better put toward either improving the Orbiter's instruments or developing the upcoming lander.

Anybody heard about this BEE buzzing?
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Offline vjkane

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1469 on: 11/29/2016 07:14 am »
Here's a proposal for a daughter craft I hadn't heard of before: http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2016/pdf/2602.pdf

Biosignature Explorer for Europa (BEE)

Anybody heard about this BEE buzzing?
I believe that NASA is no longer considering this.

Offline redliox

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1470 on: 11/29/2016 07:48 am »
Here's a proposal for a daughter craft I hadn't heard of before: http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2016/pdf/2602.pdf

Biosignature Explorer for Europa (BEE)

Anybody heard about this BEE buzzing?
I believe that NASA is no longer considering this.

I wanted to confirm that; I heard of a few daughter craft incarnations but never saw one in detail like this.  I'm pretty sure the lander inclusion killed their chances.  All the same was curious who heard of this.  Blackstar would be perfect, although I suspect he'll just verify what you said.
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Offline vjkane

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1471 on: 11/29/2016 07:52 am »
Here's a proposal for a daughter craft I hadn't heard of before: http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2016/pdf/2602.pdf

Biosignature Explorer for Europa (BEE)

Anybody heard about this BEE buzzing?
I believe that NASA is no longer considering this.

I wanted to confirm that; I heard of a few daughter craft incarnations but never saw one in detail like this.  I'm pretty sure the lander inclusion killed their chances.  All the same was curious who heard of this.  Blackstar would be perfect, although I suspect he'll just verify what you said.
My understanding is that this was proposed by a team led by APL.  NASA management decided against daughter craft for cost, mass, and complexity reasons.  I have heard of one other daughter craft, much smaller, that may still be under consideration.  Will check it out.

Offline Star One

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Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1472 on: 02/03/2017 07:21 pm »
To Get to Europa, Think Like MacGyver

A look at the idea lab where scientists are preparing for a fly-by mission to one of Jupiter’s icy moons.

Quote
In a separate, earlier project, the team experimented with which kind of drills or cutters might work best to bore through Europa’s ice, even tooling around with some of the standard drills you can find in your local hardware store. That research led to a prototype that’s now informing the development of future robotic arms at JPL.

“Those kinds of higher-end experiments would never be possible without first doing the kind of scientific and engineering rapid prototyping to answer the basic question first,” Hand says.

In answering these basic questions, they get closer to their ultimate goal. “The big-picture motivation [of this lab] is to advance our capability to seek out and understand signs of life on ocean worlds beyond Earth,” says Hand.

Quote
Scientists are hoping to gather clues about whether or not Europa could support life in the upcoming fly-by NASA mission. The spacecraft (it has no official name yet) is slated to launch as soon as 2022, and could potentially arrive at the satellite as early as 2026.

The spacecraft will be equipped with nine main instruments, including spectrometers, magnetometers, cameras, and a radar. The plan is for the spacecraft to orbit Jupiter and use its gravity, and that of the Galilean moons, to do multiple fly-bys of Europa, all in about 3.5 years.

Mission scientists are also preparing for the possibility of launching some kind of lander soon after sending off the probe, so that researchers can more quickly apply the information being projected back.

If the spacecraft were to detect a hotspot of geological activity, for instance, or a region with evidence of organic materials, “then that might be the place that we want to send a future lander,” says Pappalardo. “But we’ll see how that plays out.”



http://www.sciencefriday.com/articles/to-get-to-europa-think-like-macgyver/
« Last Edit: 02/03/2017 07:37 pm by Star One »

Offline redliox

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1473 on: 02/04/2017 04:57 am »
In about 20 days we should finally get some news on Europa and the Outer Planets via the next OPAG meeting:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/meetings/feb2017/agenda.pdf
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1474 on: 02/08/2017 08:30 pm »
Europa Lander study report:

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/docs/Europa_Lander_SDT_Report_2016.pdf

Warning: it's a 40 megabyte file.
« Last Edit: 02/08/2017 08:31 pm by Blackstar »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1475 on: 02/08/2017 09:11 pm »
From page 210: "The lander would be enclosed in a biobarrier and would undergo a system-level DHMR bioburden reduction process prior to launch. As a backup, some lander hardware may undergo penetrating iraidation microbial reduction and then be aseptically assembled. Batteries would be irradiated instead of DHMR to achieve Planetary Protection requirements. Finally, an incendiary device design option is being explored for the vault. This device would potentially be triggered just prior to the end of the lander surface phase so as to further sterilize the space craft."


Offline Vultur

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1476 on: 02/09/2017 02:35 am »
Isn't the ice crust supposed to be something like 20 km thick? How are bacteria supposed to get through that anyway?

(Yeah I know there have been suggestions that there are 'break throughs' or some other occasional surface-ocean interaction... but it seems like bacteria would have to get down there really fast due to the crazy radiation levels. I know lots of bacteria are insanely radiation resistant by our standards, but still, there are limits, especially without active metabolism to repair DNA.)

Offline redliox

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1477 on: 02/09/2017 04:14 am »
The design surprises me a little, although still overall practical.  Instead of a pyramid it looks like they're sending a box with legs, eyes, and a robot arm.  The antenna/cameras will become an obvious anthropomorphic head if NASA tries to show this off to Space Camp tikes.

They definitely went straight to the point of using SLS 1B for delivering this to Jupiter, although apparently even it will require a gravity-assist along the way; so the Lander will take 5 years versus the 'Clipper's ~2 year jaunt despite using the same rocket.  They'll certainly have plenty of time to chose a landing site.

Could they have used a simpler carrier for the job?  Granted, especially with the 5 year flight, there is a larger chance the 'Clipper wouldn't be available for relay duty.  Although I doubt they'd plan to instrument the carrier, it would be an opportunity other agencies would merrily take interest in.
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Offline baldusi

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1478 on: 02/09/2017 12:06 pm »
Well, those extra years are critical to analyze the data of the flybys.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1479 on: 02/09/2017 02:51 pm »
The design surprises me a little, although still overall practical.  Instead of a pyramid it looks like they're sending a box with legs, eyes, and a robot arm.

Note that this is still "pre-Phase A." That's a very preliminary design. The actual hardware could change quite a bit.

I've heard that from an engineering standpoint, the margins on this vehicle are really huge. They don't know much about the surface of Europa, so how can you accurately design a vehicle that will land there? How would the lander look if the surface were rolling smooth ice mounds as opposed to 1-meter tall ice spikes? So I suspect that one of the next steps would be to model several widely different types of surfaces and then drop a model vehicle on them and see what happens (this could all happen as a computer simulation, but some physical modeling might be necessary).

I think that there's a lot of uncertainty about this program overall. From a normal program management sense, it is better to wait for good data on Europa before trying to design a lander. But they have somebody who wants to fund it right now, so it's not like the cart is in front of the horse, the horse is on top of the cart...

 

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