Author Topic: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline  (Read 66790 times)

Offline iamlucky13

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1657
  • Liked: 105
  • Likes Given: 93
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #20 on: 03/20/2013 05:21 am »
You know, I read Wolf's statement, and it doesn't appear there's anything really damning about the contractor's story so far.

It's not a slam dunk (pending examination of his computers), but the details in the Discovery.com story seem like probable cause:

Quote
NASA officials said in a statement released Monday that they reviewed “a potential security breach” at the Langley Research Center earlier this month and referred their investigation to law enforcement. Jiang was fired from Langley last week.

It doesn't clarify if his firing was due to whatever security breach occurred, but assuming he was fired because it was traced to him...

Security breach + firing + one-way ticket to China + lying about what he's carrying during a warranted police stop + allegedly carrying NASA property add up to strong probable cause.

Admittedly, the details provided so far do not authoritatively confirm those factors.

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9238
  • Australia
  • Liked: 4477
  • Likes Given: 1108
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #21 on: 03/20/2013 05:25 am »
It doesn't clarify if his firing was due to whatever security breach occurred

He was fired because he's a Chinese national and it's illegal for NASA contractors to hire Chinese nationals.

Right?
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline jeff.findley

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 286
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #22 on: 03/20/2013 12:44 pm »
If the statements of a US Representative can result in NASA taking a public archive offline, where does it stop?  How much money must NASA, and potentially other organizations, spend in order to satisfy politicians that (for example) papers about the Mercury or Gemini program don't contain information that could be used to develop weapons? 
« Last Edit: 03/20/2013 12:45 pm by jeff.findley »

Offline asmi

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 733
  • Ontario, Canada
  • Liked: 170
  • Likes Given: 128
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #23 on: 03/20/2013 01:05 pm »
Oh God! While they're at it, they should also shut down Wikipedia because it contain all those Kepler's laws - they are used in sat navigation!!!
Shutting down the server is the most stupid thing they could possibly do. The basic principle of intelligence is "once public stays public", which I'm sure FBI people are aware of. So whatever has ever be made public will stay public forever and there is no way to "rollback" that.

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10974
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1257
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #24 on: 03/20/2013 01:10 pm »
It doesn't look like a congressman crying wolf. It looks like a congressman who, when the farmhand caught a wolf, decided to punish the sheep.

It bothers me that we're all being punished for the actions of one individual. 

It strains credulity to think that this one individual is the first person to have attempted to swipe data.

It bothers me that data on the F1A engine and the shuttle tiles, to pick two examples at random, is thought to be covered under ITAR.

There's been some discussion on this forum that technically, mentioning the throw weight of SLS to an unauthorized foreign national is a violation of ITAR.

There's got to be a better way to run the server, separate the currently crucial information from the historical information.

No question that Wolf is throwing his weight around, but Wolf's central point holds:

Who's minding the store?  Why are they letting people shoplift?  Don't they check their driver's licences or something before they hire them?
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline rdale

  • Assistant to the Chief Meteorologist
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10390
  • Lansing MI
  • Liked: 1415
  • Likes Given: 171
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #25 on: 03/20/2013 01:38 pm »
Oh God! While they're at it, they should also shut down Wikipedia because it contain all those Kepler's laws - they are used in sat navigation!!!

NASA doesn't host Wikipedia.

Quote
Shutting down the server is the most stupid thing they could possibly do.

No, it's not that bad at all compared to what could happen. NASA is under no "requirement" to put all that stuff online. Can you do the same for many other government agencies? Ending NTRS entirely would be the "most stupid thing" they could do.

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #26 on: 03/20/2013 01:42 pm »
...

No, it's not that bad at all compared to what could happen. NASA is under no "requirement" to put all that stuff online.
Yes it is. A requirement from me, a taxpayer, to have access to the research that I have helped pay for.

Wolf does not fund NASA, /I/ (and the rest of the American people) fund NASA. NASA is not Wolf's plaything.

Quote
Can you do the same for many other government agencies?
Yes. NIH publishes all its funded research online. The Executive Branch is pushing for all non-classified research to be published freely online, so the American people have access to what they are paying for.
« Last Edit: 03/20/2013 01:44 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10974
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1257
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #27 on: 03/20/2013 01:52 pm »
Wolf does not fund NASA, /I/ (and the rest of the American people) fund NASA. NASA is not Wolf's plaything.

Operation:  Addition.
Sign: Positive.
Integer: One.
« Last Edit: 03/20/2013 03:12 pm by JohnFornaro »
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline Lurker Steve

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1420
  • Liked: 35
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #28 on: 03/20/2013 02:31 pm »
Congressman Wolf is on the committee responsible for NASA oversight. He is doing his job. Isn't he also having the head of Ames investigated by the FBI ?

We borrow money from China in order to pay for that research. Perhaps they would like to make those loans / bonds interest-free, or even better don't ask for repayment. Under those terms, China can have access to the research I helped pay for, and continue to pay for (thanks to debt service) for many years.

Offline Lar

  • Fan boy at large
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13463
  • Saw Gemini live on TV
  • A large LEGO storage facility ... in Michigan
  • Liked: 11864
  • Likes Given: 11086
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #29 on: 03/20/2013 02:40 pm »
Congressman Wolf is on the committee responsible for NASA oversight. He is doing his job. Isn't he also having the head of Ames investigated by the FBI ?

The FBI will investigate someone just on some random congressman's say so? Really?
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline rsnellenberger

  • Amateur wood butcher
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 839
  • Harbor Springs, Michigan
  • Liked: 371
  • Likes Given: 55
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #30 on: 03/20/2013 02:52 pm »
...

No, it's not that bad at all compared to what could happen. NASA is under no "requirement" to put all that stuff online.
Yes it is. A requirement from me, a taxpayer, to have access to the research that I have helped pay for.

Wolf does not fund NASA, /I/ (and the rest of the American people) fund NASA. NASA is not Wolf's plaything.

Quote
Can you do the same for many other government agencies?
Yes. NIH publishes all its funded research online. The Executive Branch is pushing for all non-classified research to be published freely online, so the American people have access to what they are paying for.
I'm a taxpayer, too -- and I'd rather not see research that I've paid for given away for free to our economic (and otherwise) competitors.  Since we disagree, we should let our elected reps duke it out...

Research papers should only go on that site after they've been ITAR-reviewed and, if they haven't been doing that, they should pull everything down until the reviews have been performed.  Taking the server down for a few days while they get things sorted out doesn't seem unreasonable. 

When you get right down to it, ITAR essentially adds an additional level of security classification to documents, and using it to restrict access to them isn't inconsistent with the point you make in your second paragraph. 

Offline asmi

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 733
  • Ontario, Canada
  • Liked: 170
  • Likes Given: 128
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #31 on: 03/20/2013 03:07 pm »

NASA doesn't host Wikipedia.
What a shame...

Quote
Shutting down the server is the most stupid thing they could possibly do.

No, it's not that bad at all compared to what could happen. NASA is under no "requirement" to put all that stuff online. Can you do the same for many other government agencies? Ending NTRS entirely would be the "most stupid thing" they could do.
Yes it is. I would understand if they would order NASA to stop adding new stuff there - this would actually make sense, but what is already there should stay there.

Offline asmi

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 733
  • Ontario, Canada
  • Liked: 170
  • Likes Given: 128
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #32 on: 03/20/2013 03:11 pm »
Research papers should only go on that site after they've been ITAR-reviewed and, if they haven't been doing that, they should pull everything down until the reviews have been performed.  Taking the server down for a few days while they get things sorted out doesn't seem unreasonable. 

When you get right down to it, ITAR essentially adds an additional level of security classification to documents, and using it to restrict access to them isn't inconsistent with the point you make in your second paragraph.
What is the point in taking server down? Even if there is some ITAR-protected stuff, it's already there and have to be presumed compromised and so non protected anymore. You just can't "undo" making something public. That's information security 101. If classified document somehow becomes public, it stops being classified at that moment.

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #33 on: 03/20/2013 03:12 pm »
...
We borrow money from China in order to pay for that research. Perhaps they would like to make those loans / bonds interest-free, or even better don't ask for repayment. Under those terms, China can have access to the research I helped pay for, and continue to pay for (thanks to debt service) for many years.
Over-statement, most of this is America borrowing from itself. And besides, the real rate for ten-year treasury bonds is actually negative, so we're getting a better deal than interest-free ( http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=realyield ).

If you want to talk about that, PM me.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10974
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1257
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #34 on: 03/20/2013 03:14 pm »
Research papers should only go on that site after they've been ITAR-reviewed and, if they haven't been doing that, they should pull everything down until the reviews have been performed.  Taking the server down for a few days while they get things sorted out doesn't seem unreasonable. 

Good, levelheaded response.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #35 on: 03/20/2013 03:22 pm »
NTRS already DOES check to make sure things can be released. Wolf is over-reacting and causing more government waste.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Online butters

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2399
  • Liked: 1693
  • Likes Given: 598
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #36 on: 03/20/2013 03:33 pm »
I was one of the few Americans in my grad-level image/video processing classes. We're pretty eager to teach this stuff to any foreign national with enough cash behind them. I'm sure we won't all agree as to whether that's a good idea or not, but if it becomes more difficult for universities to attract well-financed foreign students if they have an affiliation with NASA, then universities will stop working with NASA.

If this guy were researching edge detection algorithms for Instagram, he wouldn't be in this mess.

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #37 on: 03/20/2013 03:38 pm »
I was one of the few Americans in my grad-level image/video processing classes. We're pretty eager to teach this stuff to any foreign national with enough cash behind them. I'm sure we won't all agree as to whether that's a good idea or not, but if it becomes more difficult for universities to attract well-financed foreign students if they have an affiliation with NASA, then universities will stop working with NASA....
THIS.

Wolf's rash actions are more likely to hurt the US's national security than help it.

America's secret weapon:
« Last Edit: 03/20/2013 03:40 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline 00rs250

  • Where Space Is Golden!
  • Member
  • Posts: 48
  • Winter Park, FL
  • Liked: 34
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #38 on: 03/20/2013 04:07 pm »
I have read elsewhere about the servers acting up and having issues before.  And on the STI site it says something about NTRS upgrades.  Is this just coincidence or smoke and mirrors?

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/
Half hour away from the best place to leave earth!

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re: NASA Contractor Arrested for Espionage. NTRS taken Offline
« Reply #39 on: 03/20/2013 04:10 pm »
I have read elsewhere about the servers acting up and having issues before.  And on the STI site it says something about NTRS upgrades.  Is this just coincidence or smoke and mirrors?

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/
The STI website you just posted says this, which is more than merely upgrades:
Quote
Until further notice, the NTRS system will be unavailable for public access. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you and anticipate that this site will return to service in the near future.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0