At this point I don't recall any rocket that has been recovered and re-used returning from an orbital velocity...
Quote from: Gliderflyer on 06/02/2017 11:54 pmBoth VTVL and HTOL rocket vehicles of (relatively) comparable performance have demonstrated low cost operations with turnaround times less than an hour I'm scratching my head to think what you're talking about? The only thing that comes to mind is the Rocket Relay League work that XCOR did but then I'm wondering what the VTOL you would be using for comparison is.
Both VTVL and HTOL rocket vehicles of (relatively) comparable performance have demonstrated low cost operations with turnaround times less than an hour
The difference between reusable rockets and spaceplanes is that we know a spaceplane can do the reentry.
Quote from: Rocket Science on 06/02/2017 01:17 pmAt this point I don't recall any rocket that has been recovered and re-used returning from an orbital velocity...True.In fact 3 designs with wings have demonstrated reentry from full orbital speed, with 2 (Shuttle and X37b) managing repeated reentries. The difference between reusable rockets and spaceplanes is that we know a spaceplane can do the reentry.The concepts of Philip Bono in the 60's did not think a conventional rocket aspect ratio could be landed, hence the shorter, wider style of his designs. We now know that, at least for the booster a LV wth this AR can be landed. We are hoping that SX will manage to find a way to make their upper stage recoverable on the FH but the truth is Musk has given up on doing this once before, so we'll have to see. The big difference is that with rockets you hope for full reusability but with spaceplanes you already known it can be done, the problem is in the engines since no one has ever designed a plane with a structure that's less than 10% of fuel weight. OTOH they have designed planes with structures < 26% of fuel, which is viable with something like SABRE.
Quote from: john smith 19 on 06/03/2017 02:19 pmThe difference between reusable rockets and spaceplanes is that we know a spaceplane can do the reentry.We know that VTVL has a good chance of working for first stages. We know that space planes work for reentry. The next step seems obvious.
Quote from: john smith 19 on 06/03/2017 02:19 pmThe difference between reusable rockets and spaceplanes is that we know a spaceplane can do the reentry.We know that VTVL has a good chance of working for first stages. We know that space planes work for reentry. The next step seems obvious. - Ed Kyle
Wrong, other structures can reenter
Quote from: edkyle99 on 06/03/2017 03:20 pmQuote from: john smith 19 on 06/03/2017 02:19 pmThe difference between reusable rockets and spaceplanes is that we know a spaceplane can do the reentry.We know that VTVL has a good chance of working for first stages. We know that space planes work for reentry. The next step seems obvious. - Ed KyleTurn the first stage into a spaceplane!
Spaceplanes can be very interesting. For example, the re-entry regime is much tamer for both cargo and crew. Another example is the ability to take something from orbit (a satellite for example) into your hold and bring it back to Earth. The rocket equation is pretty mean to SSTOs though. A two stage LV using a spaceplane (say, a re-usable booster with a re-usable spaceplane mounted to it) may in the future be(come) a good competitor to re-usable rocket launch.
Which structures did you have in mind that a)Reached orbital velocity and b) Can be reused afterward?
Quote from: Jim on 06/03/2017 07:43 pmWrong, other structures can reenterContext James, context. And in this context the key words are "reusable," "orbital" and "velocity."Which structures did you have in mind that a)Reached orbital velocity and b) Can be reused afterward?
Quote from: john smith 19 on 06/04/2017 06:25 amQuote from: Jim on 06/03/2017 07:43 pmWrong, other structures can reenterContext James, context. And in this context the key words are "reusable," "orbital" and "velocity."Which structures did you have in mind that a)Reached orbital velocity and b) Can be reused afterward? Any of the Apollo, Gemini or Dragon capsules.
Considering what happened to Columbia, I'm not sure why you're advocating for wings. "It's always been done that way" is rarely a good argument, especially if it's only ever been done once. Twice if you want to count the X-37, but Gemini 2 did that first.
and you forgot Buran.