Author Topic: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture  (Read 15878 times)

Offline Hoonte

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Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« on: 11/25/2007 01:17 pm »
I've read in one of the threads that someone was looking for a photo of recovery of the 1st stage of Gemini 5. I've attached it along with a old picture of an open Gemini backside of the 'service module'

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Offline meiza

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #1 on: 11/25/2007 02:15 pm »
Great stuff!
The first photo could be from the age of Zeppelins! The men with the ropes and the tinted black and white photo... :)
Big thanks!

Offline EE Scott

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #2 on: 11/25/2007 06:43 pm »
I guess there was no danger of residual toxic propellant?  Those guys have no protective clothing on.

edit:  btw thanks for sharing these photos, I've never seen anything like them.
Scott

Offline simonbp

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RE: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #3 on: 11/25/2007 08:57 pm »
And here's it in a picture I took in the summer of 2005 at the US Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville. It's since been moved indoors, and will hopefully be displayed someday when they get the space. (They've also got a unflown flight Agena Docking Target sitting in storage, so they could make one heck of a Gemini-Titan display.)

Simon ;)

Offline ZANL188

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RE: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #4 on: 11/25/2007 09:23 pm »
Quote
simonbp - 25/11/2007  3:57 PM

And here's it in a picture I took in the summer of 2005 at the US Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville.

Simon ;)

I suspect the stage you saw in Huntsville is not the Gemini 5 first stage.  Note that the stage in your first picture is decidedly flatter (due to impact) at the business end whereas the stage at Huntsville appears to be fairly cylindrical and without impact damage.

The recovery of the Gemini 5 first stage does give some hope to those of us who would like to see a flown Saturn V first stage recovered....  I know, I know... I can dream anyway....

Offline dwmzmm

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #5 on: 11/25/2007 10:08 pm »
Great pictures!!  Thanks for posting, guys!
Dave, NAR # 21853 SR.

Offline Hoonte

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RE: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #6 on: 11/26/2007 11:03 am »
Quote
simonbp - 25/11/2007  10:57 PM

And here's it in a picture I took in the summer of 2005 at the US Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville. It's since been moved indoors, and will hopefully be displayed someday when they get the space. (They've also got a unflown flight Agena Docking Target sitting in storage, so they could make one heck of a Gemini-Titan display.)

Simon ;)

I Think lookin at the picture, taking the staturn V and the blue thing in perspective it's still there.

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Offline simonbp

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RE: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #7 on: 11/26/2007 03:21 pm »
Quote
ZANL188 - 25/11/2007  2:23 PM

I suspect the stage you saw in Huntsville is not the Gemini 5 first stage.  Note that the stage in your first picture is decidedly flatter (due to impact) at the business end whereas the stage at Huntsville appears to be fairly cylindrical and without impact damage.

No, that's just the perspective; the back end was flattened a bit, though it appears exaggerated in the recovery shot because it's tilted. Note this is the only the top half of the first stage; the bottom half fell off sometime before recovery (leaving a floppy, unsupported rear end). When I went to take a picture of the rear end, the battery in my camera died...

It is from the Gemini 5 Titan, as confirmed by the museum staff when I asked them...

Oh, and the Google Earth image is a few years old (a nearby building I worked in for three years appears under construction...)

Simon ;)

Offline tnphysics

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #8 on: 11/26/2007 08:46 pm »
I wonder if they could have recovered the whole stage, had they arrived quicker.

That makes you wonder why they didn't try to add a parachute and deployable engine cover and try to reuse the stage. Probably because it was designed as an ICBM and you don't care about reuse if you're starting WWIII.

Offline Jim

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #9 on: 11/26/2007 10:43 pm »
Quote
tnphysics - 26/11/2007  4:46 PM

I wonder if they could have recovered the whole stage, had they arrived quicker.

That makes you wonder why they didn't try to add a parachute and deployable engine cover and try to reuse the stage.

Because it is not worth the effort.  So you recovered a stage.  It doesn't mean it can be reused

Offline simonbp

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #10 on: 11/27/2007 02:10 am »
Quote
tnphysics - 26/11/2007  1:46 PM

I wonder if they could have recovered the whole stage, had they arrived quicker.

That makes you wonder why they didn't try to add a parachute and deployable engine cover and try to reuse the stage. Probably because it was designed as an ICBM and you don't care about reuse if you're starting WWIII.

IIRC, it was torn in half either at impact or in the tumble after burnout. These stages are like Coke cans; you can balance a bowling ball on top if you're careful, but apply the same force to the side (like an uncontrolled first stage at Mach 4 or so at burnout) and the Coke can crushes. Besides, even if the stage structurally survives, the LR-87 wasn't exactly designed to immersed in saltwater for any length of time.

The main way the STS SRBs get away with recovery is by being structurally overbuild, and having no turbomachinery to get fowled up by saltwater. That's part of the reason most of the LRB studies in the 1980's used pressure-fed engines...

Simon ;)

Offline APG85

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #11 on: 01/07/2008 11:55 pm »
Found this picture on the collect space forum...

http://uplink.space.com/attachments//363786-Gemini_5_Titan_alabama.jpg
Scott

Offline LeeAnne

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #12 on: 01/08/2008 02:35 am »
Speaking of strength, I recall reading somewhere that the Atlas was extremely fragile, and only gained its strength when the tanks were full. 'Seems I read this relative to erection of an Atlas at one of the museum sites.

Lee Anne
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Spacegirl, Mariner 2 fan

Offline simonbp

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #13 on: 01/08/2008 02:40 am »
Quote
LeeAnne - 7/1/2008  8:35 PM

Speaking of strength, I recall reading somewhere that the Atlas was extremely fragile, and only gained its strength when the tanks were full. 'Seems I read this relative to erection of an Atlas at one of the museum sites.

Yep, that's why they called them balloon tanks. The Atlas D and Centaur G in Huntsville have an air compressor attached to them that tops off the internal pressure as need be (and scaring unsuspecting tourists in the process!). IIRC, the vertical Atlases at KSC are filled with concrete...

Simon ;)

Offline Namechange User

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #14 on: 01/08/2008 02:41 am »
Atlas tanks are balloon tanks and the rocket gets more rigid and is able to take the loads it experiences when the tanks are pressurized.
Enjoying viewing the forum a little better now by filtering certain users.

Offline dwmzmm

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #15 on: 01/08/2008 04:31 am »
Quote
APG85 - 7/1/2008  6:55 PM

Found this picture on the collect space forum...

http://uplink.space.com/attachments//363786-Gemini_5_Titan_alabama.jpg

What suppose to be the size of that pic?  I can only see about 1/2" x 1/2".
Dave, NAR # 21853 SR.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #16 on: 01/08/2008 03:11 pm »
Quote
LeeAnne - 7/1/2008  10:35 PM

Speaking of strength, I recall reading somewhere that the Atlas was extremely fragile, and only gained its strength when the tanks were full. 'Seems I read this relative to erection of an Atlas at one of the museum sites.

Lee Anne
As said above, they were "ballon" tanks needing internal pressure. They didn't need to be full, but at least 5 PSI was needed for them to not collapse under their own weight when shipped empty. In the Atlas history there are a couple photos of what an Atlas looked like when the pressure failed on a shipping trailer. Not good. Think stepped-on beer can.

It's worth noting that this only applies to the original Atlas design. The latest Atlas V design is actually a completely different structure with conventional stiffeners & frames that make it much stronger when empty than the early design. The original Atlas design, though, is still hard to beat for propellant to structure weight ratio.

Paul
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MDA

Offline CFE

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #17 on: 01/10/2008 11:33 pm »
The original Atlas structural concept is still in use in the Centaur upper stage.  Shows that you can't keep a good idea down, even if it was abandoned for the Atlas V first stage.
"Black Zones" never stopped NASA from flying the shuttle.

Offline heng44

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RE: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #18 on: 01/11/2008 03:58 pm »
Here's two more photos.
Ed

Offline Rusty_Barton

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #19 on: 01/11/2008 10:57 pm »
On a related subject, here is a link to a NASA NTRS report, about observations of the reentry of the Gemini 5 - Titan II second stage:


Observations of the GT-5 Rocket-Body Reentry (Titan II second stage reentry)
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19660004479_1966004479.pdf

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #20 on: 01/14/2008 01:20 pm »
Quote
CFE - 10/1/2008  7:33 PM

The original Atlas structural concept is still in use in the Centaur upper stage.  Shows that you can't keep a good idea down, even if it was abandoned for the Atlas V first stage.

Yeah, I never did understand why the Atlas V went to the stiffened skin design. The ballon worked very, very well for 40 years.

Any one know why?

Paul
Sr. Mech. Engineer
MDA

Offline Jim

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Re: Gemini 5 first stage recovery picture
« Reply #21 on: 01/14/2008 01:32 pm »
Quote
tankmodeler - 14/1/2008  9:20 AM

Quote
CFE - 10/1/2008  7:33 PM

The original Atlas structural concept is still in use in the Centaur upper stage.  Shows that you can't keep a good idea down, even if it was abandoned for the Atlas V first stage.

Yeah, I never did understand why the Atlas V went to the stiffened skin design. The ballon worked very, very well for 40 years.

Any one know why?

Paul

To simplify ground processing, which means saving money.  Also, the heavy version would have been hard to assemble.

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