Author Topic: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application  (Read 679465 times)

Offline LIndsey Abelard

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #700 on: 01/17/2010 10:22 PM »
Speaking of something else than Woodward drives, look what I stumbled upon.

Link.


Ref my comments in this thread or the one started by G/I Thruster on Dr. Harold (Sonny) White's Quantum Vacuum Fluctuation / Hydrodynamic (QVF/MHD) work.  Several QVF based prototypes are currently under construction or being tested at the moment in my dinning room.  In my opinion Woodward's and White's approaches to propellantless propulsion are just flip sides of the same GRT/QM reality.

In the other thread, you mentioned how the bulk form of the dielectric material will not work and that you need the dielectric material as alternating layers, like a superlattice structure. Can you share details about the desired characteristics of each layer as well as the desired thickness of each layer?

Offline Star-Drive

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #701 on: 01/18/2010 05:03 AM »
Speaking of something else than Woodward drives, look what I stumbled upon.

Link.


Ref my comments in this thread or the one started by G/I Thruster on Dr. Harold (Sonny) White's Quantum Vacuum Fluctuation / Hydrodynamic (QVF/MHD) work.  Several QVF based prototypes are currently under construction or being tested at the moment in my dinning room.  In my opinion Woodward's and White's approaches to propellantless propulsion are just flip sides of the same GRT/QM reality.

In the other thread, you mentioned how the bulk form of the dielectric material will not work and that you need the dielectric material as alternating layers, like a superlattice structure. Can you share details about the desired characteristics of each layer as well as the desired thickness of each layer?

The M-E delta-m optimized layer needs to be a high-k dielectric like the Y5U barium titanate material Woodward is using and the other layer needs to be a low-k material designed to maximize the Lorentz vxB force needed to bulk accelerate the M-E optimized layer.  The thickness of each layer is driven by the acountical wavelenght of the drive frequency in the mateirals in question and the desire to minimize destructive pressure wave interference between them.
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Offline Lampyridae

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #702 on: 01/19/2010 02:25 AM »
James Woodward mentioned something about the Gravity Probe B data that was interesting. He didn't go into specifics but said that the team hinted there was evidence of Machian inertial effects. I'm no physics expert, but it seems there was a LOT of noise in the experiment. The data seems to indicate an east/west frame dragging *slightly* more than expected, but the error ellipses are large.

http://einstein.stanford.edu/highlights/status1.html
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Offline LIndsey Abelard

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #703 on: 01/22/2010 05:38 PM »


In the other thread, you mentioned how the bulk form of the dielectric material will not work and that you need the dielectric material as alternating layers, like a superlattice structure. Can you share details about the desired characteristics of each layer as well as the desired thickness of each layer?

The M-E delta-m optimized layer needs to be a high-k dielectric like the Y5U barium titanate material Woodward is using and the other layer needs to be a low-k material designed to maximize the Lorentz vxB force needed to bulk accelerate the M-E optimized layer.  The thickness of each layer is driven by the acountical wavelenght of the drive frequency in the mateirals in question and the desire to minimize destructive pressure wave interference between them.

I assume the following is the desired characteristics of the high-k and low-k dielectric materials:

High-k dielectric material:
   greatest dielectric constant: >5k preferred
   5.6gm/cc or less
   operating frequency 10-50 Mhz
   operating voltage 100kV p-p
   loss tangent < 0.5% at operating frequency
   magnetic permeability >10 per layer

Low k dielectric material
   maximize Lorentz vxB force to accelerate the M-E optimized layer (high-k dielectric material)*
   operating frequency 10-50 MHz
   operating voltage 100kV p-p
   loss tangent < 0.5% at operating frequency

Thickness of each material:
   acoustical wavelength of the drive frequency in each material*
   minimize destructive pressure wave interference between material layers*

Operating lifetime of everything should be 10,000's hours or greater

*Do the presentations on Dr. Woodward's site contain the information sufficient to calculate the ideal thickness for each of the materials in the stack as well as maximization of the Lorentz vxB force on the high-k material?

Offline Lampyridae

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #704 on: 01/24/2010 09:51 AM »
Interesting read from New Scientist, on what gravity actually is. (Einstein and Newton only describe it, of course). The researcher invokes a "holographic" paradigm.

"Like the fluidity of water, gravity is not ingrained in matter itself. It is an extra physical effect"

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20527443.800-the-entropy-force-a-new-direction-for-gravity.html
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Offline Sith

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #705 on: 01/31/2010 01:15 PM »
What makes a flux capacitor so important in a spacedrive?

Offline cuddihy

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #706 on: 01/31/2010 07:29 PM »
Interesting read from New Scientist, on what gravity actually is. (Einstein and Newton only describe it, of course). The researcher invokes a "holographic" paradigm.

"Like the fluidity of water, gravity is not ingrained in matter itself. It is an extra physical effect"

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20527443.800-the-entropy-force-a-new-direction-for-gravity.html

Lubos Motl of The Reference Frame pretty convincingly demolishes this theory, calls it a new version of The Luminous Aether that Michaelson and Einstein disproved, but he does it using the example of the famous "double slit experiment."

http://motls.blogspot.com/2010/01/erik-verlinde-why-gravity-cant-be.html



Offline cuddihy

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #707 on: 01/31/2010 07:32 PM »
What makes a flux capacitor so important in a spacedrive?

Gravity waves, man. Woah. Heavy.

Offline Sith

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #708 on: 01/31/2010 08:50 PM »
What makes a flux capacitor so important in a spacedrive?

Gravity waves, man. Woah. Heavy.
U kidding?

Offline sandrot

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #709 on: 01/31/2010 09:05 PM »
What makes a flux capacitor so important in a spacedrive?

Gravity waves, man. Woah. Heavy.
U kidding?

Marty McFly: Wait a minute, Doc, are you trying to tell me that my mother has got the hots for me?
Dr. Emmett Brown: Precisely.
Marty McFly: Whoa, this is heavy.
"Paper planes do fly much better than paper spacecrafts."

Offline Lampyridae

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #710 on: 01/31/2010 09:36 PM »
What makes a flux capacitor so important in a spacedrive?

Gravity waves, man. Woah. Heavy.
U kidding?

Marty McFly: Wait a minute, Doc, are you trying to tell me that my mother has got the hots for me?
Dr. Emmett Brown: Precisely.
Marty McFly: Whoa, this is heavy.

Flux capacitor. Sounds cool, makes no sense. However, given the fact that it messes with time, I could see how it does "flux" and "capacitor" simultaneously.
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Offline 93143

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #711 on: 01/31/2010 09:57 PM »
Flux capacitor. Sounds cool, makes no sense.

Get Tom Ligon to tell you his PXL-1 story some time...

Offline Star-Drive

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #712 on: 02/01/2010 01:10 AM »
What makes a flux capacitor so important in a spacedrive?

Gravity waves, man. Woah. Heavy.
U kidding?

Marty McFly: Wait a minute, Doc, are you trying to tell me that my mother has got the hots for me?
Dr. Emmett Brown: Precisely.
Marty McFly: Whoa, this is heavy.

Flux capacitor. Sounds cool, makes no sense. However, given the fact that it messes with time, I could see how it does "flux" and "capacitor" simultaneously.

Humor aside, the phrase "Flux Capacitor" makes very good sense when taken in its proper context.  A Mach-Effect (M-E), Mach-Lorentz Thruster (MLT) "Flux Capacitor" is an energy storing and processing capacitor structure that has a B-field flux vector running through it at right angles to the capacitor's internal E-field vector.  These time varying and crossed E- and B-fields in the capacitor dielectric create a longitudinal, (parallel to the thrust axis), Lorentz vxB force used to create the dE^2/dt^2 power flux in the capacitor and bulk accelerations of the capacitor needed to create the M-E inertial mass fluctuations, and also to force rectify these M-E derived inertial mass fluctuations into a unidirectional force.  Just as a reminder, these transient inertial mass fluctuations used in M-E devices are based on the Mach's Principle assumption that inertial mass is due to the gravitational interactions of all the mass/energy in the causally connected universe with a locally accelerated and energy verying dielectric mass.  The act of accelerating the local mass transiently shields the local mass from its cosmologically derived and gravitationally coupled mass/energy source, which is measured as a mass magnitude transient in the local accelerated mass that is simultaneously undergoing a power flux.   

Yes I know that description is rather long winded, but the M-E straddles Newtonian Physics, SRT, GRT, Mechanical, Material and Electrical engineering disciplines, so it takes a bit of descriptive effort to encapsulate what we think is going on.   And yes, Woodward contiues to obtain supporting data for his M-E conjecture in his latest Shuttler test series.  Data that he will be reporting on next month at the Space, Propulsion & Energy Sciences International Forum - 2010, to be held at the John Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory.

http://ias-spes.org/SPESIF.html
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Offline SCS_18.35MeV

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #713 on: 02/01/2010 05:55 AM »
What makes a flux capacitor so important in a spacedrive?

Gravity waves, man. Woah. Heavy.
U kidding?

Marty McFly: Wait a minute, Doc, are you trying to tell me that my mother has got the hots for me?
Dr. Emmett Brown: Precisely.
Marty McFly: Whoa, this is heavy.

Flux capacitor. Sounds cool, makes no sense. However, given the fact that it messes with time, I could see how it does "flux" and "capacitor" simultaneously.

Humor aside, the phrase "Flux Capacitor" makes very good sense when taken in its proper context.  A Mach-Effect (M-E), Mach-Lorentz Thruster (MLT) "Flux Capacitor" is an energy storing and processing capacitor structure that has a B-field flux vector running through it at right angles to the capacitor's internal E-field vector.  These time varying and crossed E- and B-fields in the capacitor dielectric create a longitudinal, (parallel to the thrust axis), Lorentz vxB force used to create the dE^2/dt^2 power flux in the capacitor and bulk accelerations of the capacitor needed to create the M-E inertial mass fluctuations, and also to force rectify these M-E derived inertial mass fluctuations into a unidirectional force.  Just as a reminder, these transient inertial mass fluctuations used in M-E devices are based on the Mach's Principle assumption that inertial mass is due to the gravitational interactions of all the mass/energy in the causally connected universe with a locally accelerated and energy verying dielectric mass.  The act of accelerating the local mass transiently shields the local mass from its cosmologically derived and gravitationally coupled mass/energy source, which is measured as a mass magnitude transient in the local accelerated mass that is simultaneously undergoing a power flux.   

Yes I know that description is rather long winded, but the M-E straddles Newtonian Physics, SRT, GRT, Mechanical, Material and Electrical engineering disciplines, so it takes a bit of descriptive effort to encapsulate what we think is going on.   And yes, Woodward contiues to obtain supporting data for his M-E conjecture in his latest Shuttler test series.  Data that he will be reporting on next month at the Space, Propulsion & Energy Sciences International Forum - 2010, to be held at the John Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory.

http://ias-spes.org/SPESIF.html





Is the inertial shielding of the mass due to the acceleration of the mass, or the "time rate of change of acceleration" of the mass?

The energy change of the capacitor over time (E= (1/2)C*V**2, where V= voltage on cap) appears to be unrelated to the mass shielding effect?

Offline Lampyridae

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #714 on: 02/02/2010 12:21 AM »
What makes a flux capacitor so important in a spacedrive?

Gravity waves, man. Woah. Heavy.
U kidding?

Marty McFly: Wait a minute, Doc, are you trying to tell me that my mother has got the hots for me?
Dr. Emmett Brown: Precisely.
Marty McFly: Whoa, this is heavy.

Flux capacitor. Sounds cool, makes no sense. However, given the fact that it messes with time, I could see how it does "flux" and "capacitor" simultaneously.

Humor aside, the phrase "Flux Capacitor" makes very good sense when taken in its proper context.  A Mach-Effect (M-E), Mach-Lorentz Thruster (MLT) "Flux Capacitor" is an energy storing and processing capacitor structure that has a B-field flux vector running through it at right angles to the capacitor's internal E-field vector.  These time varying and crossed E- and B-fields in the capacitor dielectric create a longitudinal, (parallel to the thrust axis), Lorentz vxB force used to create the dE^2/dt^2 power flux in the capacitor and bulk accelerations of the capacitor needed to create the M-E inertial mass fluctuations, and also to force rectify these M-E derived inertial mass fluctuations into a unidirectional force.  Just as a reminder, these transient inertial mass fluctuations used in M-E devices are based on the Mach's Principle assumption that inertial mass is due to the gravitational interactions of all the mass/energy in the causally connected universe with a locally accelerated and energy verying dielectric mass.  The act of accelerating the local mass transiently shields the local mass from its cosmologically derived and gravitationally coupled mass/energy source, which is measured as a mass magnitude transient in the local accelerated mass that is simultaneously undergoing a power flux.   

Yes I know that description is rather long winded, but the M-E straddles Newtonian Physics, SRT, GRT, Mechanical, Material and Electrical engineering disciplines, so it takes a bit of descriptive effort to encapsulate what we think is going on.   And yes, Woodward contiues to obtain supporting data for his M-E conjecture in his latest Shuttler test series.  Data that he will be reporting on next month at the Space, Propulsion & Energy Sciences International Forum - 2010, to be held at the John Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory.

http://ias-spes.org/SPESIF.html


 ;D Thanks for that run-down. Wow, "flux capacitor" really is a good shorthand way of saying it. I always thought it was oxymoronic to store flux in a capacitor. But it does sound kinda cool...

With all this screaming about the FY2011 budget, I nevertheless detect some interesting points. Since NASA is to be re-directed towards technology development (yay!) I think there is a good chance we'll see money going towards more exotic techs like Polywell engines and maybe even gravinertial stuff.
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Offline Star-Drive

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #715 on: 02/02/2010 04:04 AM »

Is the inertial shielding of the mass due to the acceleration of the mass, or the "time rate of change of acceleration" of the mass?

The energy change of the capacitor over time (E= (1/2)C*V**2, where V= voltage on cap) appears to be unrelated to the mass shielding effect?


There are both first and second order derivates in the M-E differential equation describing the creation of transient mass fluctuations that involve both the energy flux and the acceleration of a local mass.  So to create a transient inertial mass fluctuation you have to concurrently produce both a dP/dt and acceleration signature in the local mass simultaneously.  The third order derivative of acceleration called jerk is not required, but if present would amplify the basic mass fluctuation effect.
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Offline SCS_18.35MeV

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #716 on: 02/02/2010 07:26 AM »

Is the inertial shielding of the mass due to the acceleration of the mass, or the "time rate of change of acceleration" of the mass?

The energy change of the capacitor over time (E= (1/2)C*V**2, where V= voltage on cap) appears to be unrelated to the mass shielding effect?


There are both first and second order derivates in the M-E differential equation describing the creation of transient mass fluctuations that involve both the energy flux and the acceleration of a local mass.  So to create a transient inertial mass fluctuation you have to concurrently produce both a dP/dt and acceleration signature in the local mass simultaneously.  The third order derivative of acceleration called jerk is not required, but if present would amplify the basic mass fluctuation effect.


If I have a constant acceleration, then my velocity v= v0 + a*t;
So, P= m * v = m*(v0 + at);  So, dP/dt= d(m*(v0+at))/dt = m*a;
Thus, by producing a constant acceleration, I do get a dP/dt effect.  My energy flux is solely due to the acceleration, as my energy at any instant is E=(1/2)m*v**2 in the presence of a velocity that is changing at each instant.

Offline Star-Drive

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #717 on: 02/02/2010 05:45 PM »

Is the inertial shielding of the mass due to the acceleration of the mass, or the "time rate of change of acceleration" of the mass?

The energy change of the capacitor over time (E= (1/2)C*V**2, where V= voltage on cap) appears to be unrelated to the mass shielding effect?


There are both first and second order derivates in the M-E differential equation describing the creation of transient mass fluctuations that involve both the energy flux and the acceleration of a local mass.  So to create a transient inertial mass fluctuation you have to concurrently produce both a dP/dt and acceleration signature in the local mass simultaneously.  The third order derivative of acceleration called jerk is not required, but if present would amplify the basic mass fluctuation effect.


If I have a constant acceleration, then my velocity v= v0 + a*t;
So, P= m * v = m*(v0 + at);  So, dP/dt= d(m*(v0+at))/dt = m*a;
Thus, by producing a constant acceleration, I do get a dP/dt effect.  My energy flux is solely due to the acceleration, as my energy at any instant is E=(1/2)m*v**2 in the presence of a velocity that is changing at each instant.

Sorry, the dP/dt I was referring to is not momentum, but Power or the second derivative of energy flux d^2E/dt^2.  It's in equation 7 in the attached Woodward 2004 Origin's of Inertia paper.
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Offline marsavian

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #718 on: 02/02/2010 07:44 PM »
Paul,

Do you think there is any chance of getting any serious official support now from the new 'game-changing seeking' NASA ? Seems to me you are being hindered by lack of materials science support, wouldn't it be nice and much quicker for your research if you just gave out a dielectric spec for a hybrid part and someone just went ahead and made it for you free of charge  ! ;)
« Last Edit: 02/02/2010 07:45 PM by marsavian »

Offline clb22

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Re: Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
« Reply #719 on: 02/02/2010 08:03 PM »
Paul,

Do you think there is any chance of getting any serious official support now from the new 'game-changing seeking' NASA ? Seems to me you are being hindered by lack of materials science support, wouldn't it be nice and much quicker for your research if you just gave out a dielectric spec for a hybrid part and someone just went ahead and made it for you free of charge  ! ;)

Everything is possible. The Tiger teams want input and will consider everything that might be groundbreaking.
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