Author Topic: World View (stratospheric balloons)  (Read 28661 times)

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #40 on: 01/03/2018 06:28 am »
Ignition perhaps from static electricity?
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #41 on: 01/12/2018 06:37 pm »
World View is testing manned near-spaceflight systems, according to Twitter account of the  company:

"Not a bad day at the office, @Astro_Ron! Doing some flight testing on aerodynamic descent systems for Voyager and the Stratollite!"
« Last Edit: 01/12/2018 06:38 pm by Svetoslav »

Offline JQP

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World View raises money to take people to the edge of space in high-altitude balloons

That is a lot of talking without mentioning altitude more than once. I'm guessing they don't talk altitude because they're never gonna get anyone near LEO, but that's just my cynical side talking.

Because if you could get near LEO with balloons, that would be the way to go, down the road. Just float up until you're high enough that a tug could grab you and tow you the rest of the way. And I think I would've heard by now, if balloons were gonna replace rockets.

I suppose I'm objecting to this use of the term, "the edge of space" in the headline.

Offline high road

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While I share your skepticism about balloons to space, those are a lot of strawmen in a single post.

Quote
World View intends to use what it learns from Stratollite to launch people in another balloon-lifted craft called Voyager. "We will be flying people in the future but I'd like us to have 100 or more Stratollite flights under our belt first," Poynter said.

Stratollite can fly commercial payloads the size of a small bus to 150,000 feet of altitude, making it possible to quickly and steadily provide services such as weather forecasting, military surveillance or disaster recovery.

Why do they have to say more than this? They're saying the Voyager craft is a long way down the road. So why bother giving specifics of the next craft if they're still tweaking the design of their current craft?

Secondly, LEO is a velocity rather than an altitude. You'd either need a cable that is long and resilient enough to mitigate several km/s difference in speed so the payload and tug survive, a rotovator, or a rocket stage (not a space tug) like zero2infinity:



Thirdly, given the difficulty of the above, this thing would compete with suborbital tourist rockets like LauncherOne or New Shepard. We still have to see what altitude LauncherOne will eventually be able to achieve. But the important metric here might be price/time spent on said altitude. If you can see something close to 'the black of space', the curvature of the earth, the edge of the atmosphere above the horizen, and what not, and for far longer than the time needed to catch your breath from a few g's of accelleration, that might be enough for tourists to open their wallets.

Offline JQP

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Quote
Why do they have to say more than this?

Because the headline said "the edge of space." Which it ain't.

Offline high road

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #45 on: 03/31/2018 10:45 pm »
Well, that's main stream media for you. Hyperbole, hyperbole, hyperbole. They do this for LauncherOne, which doesn't go a lot higher, as well.  And basically for anything space-related. Or rather: for everything, full stop.

Online gongora

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #46 on: 03/31/2018 10:52 pm »
Well, that's main stream media for you. Hyperbole, hyperbole, hyperbole. They do this for LauncherOne, which doesn't go a lot higher, as well.  And basically for anything space-related. Or rather: for everything, full stop.

I think you mean SpaceShipTwo.  LauncherOne is supposed to go a bit higher.

Online gongora

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #47 on: 03/04/2020 04:32 pm »
March 3, 2020

World View Stratollite fleet to provide high resolution imagery and data analytics in the Americas

BROOMFIELD, Co. – World View, the stratospheric data and information services company, has announced
their plans to build and deploy a fleet of Stratollites, known as World View Orbits, over North and Central
America starting this summer.

After a series of successful test and development flights to sharpen vehicle flight and navigation capabilities,
World View is in final preparations to offer customers high resolution imagery and associated analytics
products from an integrated network of vehicles operating in the stratosphere for a variety of use cases.
Speaking at the Next-Generation Suborbital Researchers Conference in Broomfield, Colorado, World View
President & CEO Ryan Hartman said, “We are excited to be on the cusp of delivering high value services to
initial customers in North and Central America. Our Stratollite fleet will begin launching in the summer
timeframe, and initial operational capability (IOC) will follow thereafter with a build-up to full fleet operations
expected in first half of 2021.”

World View will provide high resolution imagery access at 15cm ground sample distance (GSD) using precision
instruments provided by the company’s industry partners and suppliers. Imagery delivery to end users is via
the company’s secure data portal on the World View website.

“As we continue our efforts to build out the stratospheric ecosystem, we are utilizing the best the industry has
to offer in terms of commercial instrumentation. However, we are also in the process of implementing a custom
electro-optical (EO) sensor to provide higher resolution imagery at better than 5cm GSD,” said World View
Senior Vice President of Engineering and Manufacturing Dr. Matteo Genna. Dr. Genna added, “The unique
ability to safely land and refurbish the Stratollite allows continuous upgrades and enhancements during
operational services delivery.”

For more information, please visit WorldView.space or follow us on Twitter @WorldViewSpace.

Offline su27k

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #48 on: 01/13/2023 02:44 am »
Balloon Surveillance Startup World View Nears Merger With Leo SPAC

Quote from: bloomberg.com
World View, which focuses on remote sensing and stratospheric surveillance, has agreed to go public through a merger with a blank-check firm, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

The deal with Leo Holdings Corp. II is set to value the combined entity at about $350 million, which includes a potential $75 million private investment in public equity, or PIPE, said the people, who asked not to be identified discussing confidential information. A transaction could be announced as soon as Thursday, they said.


SpaceNews article: Stratospheric ballooning company World View to go public in SPAC deal

Quote from: SpaceNews
In October 2021, World View announced it would return to the tourism business, developing a balloon system and pressurized cabin to take up to 10 people to altitudes of about 30 kilometers for flights lasting 6 to 12 hours. The company says 1,200 people have reserved seats on those flights, with a ticket cost of $50,000, although the company has not disclosed how much revenue it has collected from those reservations.

World View provided little financial information as part of the SPAC announcement. Unlike some similar deals involving space or space-adjacent companies, there was no conference call to discuss the merger, and they did not release an investor presentation with financial details or projections.
« Last Edit: 01/14/2023 02:05 am by su27k »

Offline Hobbes-22

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #49 on: 01/13/2023 06:51 am »
These balloons take nearly 500,000 m3 of helium each. Annual helium production in the USA is 57 million m3. if they get to more than ~10 flights per year, it'll have significant impact on helium supplies.

Offline su27k

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #50 on: 02/07/2023 02:28 am »
World View emphasizes remote sensing as it prepares to go public

Quote from: SpaceNews
World View, the stratospheric ballooning company that announced plans to go public last month, is emphasizing remote sensing, and not tourism, as its primary market for the next several years.

The company, which said Jan. 13 it would go public through a merger with a special purpose acquisition company (SPAC) called Leo Holdings Corp. II, filed an investor presentation with the Securities and Exchange Commission Feb. 3 that provided new information about its finances and business plans.

In the presentation, the company described how it believed its balloon platform, called a “stratollite,” could compete against satellites and aerial platforms in providing high-resolution imagery for extended periods.

Offline Comga

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Re: World View (stratospheric balloons)
« Reply #51 on: 02/07/2023 04:32 am »
These balloons take nearly 500,000 m3 of helium each. Annual helium production in the USA is 57 million m3. if they get to more than ~10 flights per year, it'll have significant impact on helium supplies.
but
Quote
Helium production in the United States totaled 73 million cubic meters in 2014. The US was the world's largest helium producer, providing 40 percent of world supply.(Wikepedia)
From the SpaceNews article:
Quote
World View expects both the number of flights and revenue to grow substantially in the next few years, reaching $89 million in revenue from 65 flights in 2025.
65*5E5 m^3= 3.3E7 m^3 = 45% of 73 million m^3 or just under half of  the 2014 production in the US, and about 20% of the 2014 world production.
Still a big chunk.
Is this correct today?
Is this economically practical?
Is there no recovery of the helium?
Isn't one of the balloons fixed while gas is bled into and pumped out of the variable other?
« Last Edit: 02/07/2023 04:33 am by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: World View (stratospheric balloons)
« Reply #52 on: 02/07/2023 07:29 am »
These balloons take nearly 500,000 m3 of helium each. Annual helium production in the USA is 57 million m3. if they get to more than ~10 flights per year, it'll have significant impact on helium supplies.
but
Quote
Helium production in the United States totaled 73 million cubic meters in 2014. The US was the world's largest helium producer, providing 40 percent of world supply.(Wikepedia)
From the SpaceNews article:
Quote
World View expects both the number of flights and revenue to grow substantially in the next few years, reaching $89 million in revenue from 65 flights in 2025.
65*5E5 m^3= 3.3E7 m^3 = 45% of 73 million m^3 or just under half of  the 2014 production in the US, and about 20% of the 2014 world production.
Still a big chunk.
Is this correct today?
Is this economically practical?
Is there no recovery of the helium?
Isn't one of the balloons fixed while gas is bled into and pumped out of the variable other?
These are all questions you would hope the VCs funding this company would have asked.  No guarantee that they did.

Offline Asteroza

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Re: World View (stratospheric balloons)
« Reply #53 on: 02/07/2023 10:49 pm »
As I understand it, modern two envelope balloons user an inner ballonet filled with variable amounts of air as a variable ballast system to avoid venting helium during operation. Unfortunately, at end of mission they still typically just pop the balloon, losing the helium, while the payload is expended or recovered via parachute (some payloads now are in the form of a UAV glider for directed recovery, or have a data recorder installed on an ejectable glider).

Google Loon sufficiently demonstrated that variable ballast balloons can mostly stay in a given mission area via changing altitude to ride favorable winds to correct position. You aren't guaranteed to have the necessary winds to correct position though, which is why they eventually drift out of the mission area. For a surveillance HAPS mission that ain't terrible. Slap a Starlink on it and you get realtime bulk data delivery.

Something more like JP Aerospace's tandem balloon setups with propellers along with variable ballast might be able to overcome the drift problem though.

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