Author Topic: Kosmos 2519/2521/2523 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017  (Read 475388 times)

Offline Kosmos2001

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #60 on: 06/26/2017 01:09 pm »
Anatoly Zak just posted something as interesting as worrying:

Fueling crew had to literally run from the pad, after a knife-edge countdown of #Soyuz-2-1v rocket Friday. DETAILS: http://russianspaceweb.com/napryazhenie.html#prelaunch
Source: Anatoly's Zak twitter

Offline input~2

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #61 on: 06/26/2017 01:13 pm »
According to latest TLE, Volga hasn't been deorbited, it was still in a 660 km/98° orbit this morning

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #62 on: 06/26/2017 01:23 pm »
According to latest TLE, Volga hasn't been deorbited, it was still in a 660 km/98° orbit this morning
Anatoly Zak reports that "according to the telemetry received by ground controllers, the breaking maneuver of the Volga space tug was performed at scheduled time at the end of the mission. The data also showed that the Volga successfully received a command to deactivate all systems aboard the stage, Russian industry sources said."

Could it be two satellites and Volga in the elliptical orbit?

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Liss

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #63 on: 06/26/2017 01:28 pm »
According to latest TLE, Volga hasn't been deorbited, it was still in a 660 km/98° orbit this morning
Anatoly Zak reports that "according to the telemetry received by ground controllers, the breaking maneuver of the Volga space tug was performed at scheduled time at the end of the mission. The data also showed that the Volga successfully received a command to deactivate all systems aboard the stage, Russian industry sources said."

Could it be two satellites and Volga in the elliptical orbit?

 - Ed Kyle
The object in elliptical orbit is the Soyuz-2.1V second stage.
The two objects in circular orbit should be two satellites or a satellite and an operational fragment provided the information is reliable on the successful Volga deorbit.
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Online Alter Sachse

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Re: Soyuz-2.1v - 23th June 2017
« Reply #64 on: 06/26/2017 01:42 pm »
quote Stan Black


"So article 14Ф150 is satellite «Nivelir-L»?

Maybe it is a double satellite, №1 and №2?"

The thought was already there...
« Last Edit: 06/26/2017 01:45 pm by Alter Sachse »
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Offline gosnold

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #65 on: 06/26/2017 06:01 pm »
Kosmos 2519 98.05 97.97 654 669
Resurs-O1     98.05 97.98 661 663 (launched 4.11.1994)
Almost the same orbit ...
Could it be optical reconnaissance?

Local time of the Descending node is 10:00 am solar, so it's certainly a possibility. In fact, it seems to be a replacement of Persona 2:

K2519 is almost in plane with 2013-028A. Don't know if this is intentional or not.
That was Kosmos 2486 ("Persona 2")
98.30° 99.76 min 714 km 733 km


Offline Stan Black

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #66 on: 06/26/2017 06:28 pm »
In my ineducated opinion, ХП-М, ЦСВВ, ЗУ modules are some low-level electronic components within ЗУ block which probably means запоминающее устройство (memory unit) and as such exists in different configurations within many spacecraft and ground support equipment items.
So it doesn't make sense to think that Nivelir-ZU may be a spacecraft name or a project name. Judging from the quotes above, it can me a name for a very small work of the larger Nivelir project. And NPP OPTEKS (Being a subsidiary of RKTs Progress) orders this ЗУ block to use in a larger assembly (maybe onboard computer or control system) to be delivered to a producer of a spacecraft.

I am trying to understand what are ХП-М and ЦСВВ. They are also connected with Lavochkin’s MKA-FKI based satellites? There is also a link between Lavochkin and the 14Ф150.
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=273020

Also what version of MKA-FKI was to be used for remote sensing in this attachment?
http://www.unoosa.org/pdf/pres/stsc2012/2012ind-06E.pdf
 - note the picture of Persona in that attachment?

Offline B. Hendrickx

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #67 on: 06/26/2017 08:11 pm »
Also what version of MKA-FKI was to be used for remote sensing in this attachment?
http://www.unoosa.org/pdf/pres/stsc2012/2012ind-06E.pdf
 - note the picture of Persona in that attachment?

The first MKA-FKI, launched on 22 July 2012, was a remote sensing satellite (also known as Zond-PP).

I think the satellite on the last page is the same one shown on the first page : Resurs-DK with the Pamela payload mounted on top.

Offline Liss

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #68 on: 06/26/2017 08:28 pm »
There is also a link between Lavochkin and the 14Ф150.
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=273020
Not only a link but the proof 14Ф150 is/was being assembled and tested at Lavockin (just converted to a joint stock company AO NPO Lavochkin BTW). But there is another question: how do we know that K2519 is 14Ф150?
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Stan Black

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #69 on: 06/26/2017 09:24 pm »
There is also a link between Lavochkin and the 14Ф150.
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=273020
Not only a link but the proof 14Ф150 is/was being assembled and tested at Lavockin (just converted to a joint stock company AO NPO Lavochkin BTW). But there is another question: how do we know that K2519 is 14Ф150?


Several tenuous things:-
Mr. Pillet identified it.
It was identified in procurement plans from TsENKI as a Soyuz payload. All others are accounted for?
The tender for insurance covering transportation of the rocket did not identify the payload, unlike for 2/138 which was for Kanopus.

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #70 on: 06/26/2017 09:53 pm »
Mr. Pillet identified it.

No, I've never identified Cosmos-2519 as being 14F150.

All that I know is that in the Soyuz launch planning that I published about two years ago, there was "14F150 n°2" listed on a Soyuz-2.1v.

But this was a long time ago, many things may have changed in the plan. I have absolutely no element showing that Cosmos-2519 is 14F150.
Nicolas PILLET
Kosmonavtika : The French site on Russian Space

Offline B. Hendrickx

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #71 on: 06/26/2017 10:15 pm »
Unless I’ve missed something, the evidence from the procurement documents that links Nivelir/Napryazhenie/14F150  to this launch looks rather flimsy.

1) there is no clear evidence from the documents that Nivelir and Napryazhenie are part of one and the same project. The names themselves are not suggestive of a related mission either (although I fully realize we shouldn’t read too much into Russian satellite names). Nivelir means “dumpy level” (logical for a geodetic satellite) and Napryazhenie, translated by Anatoly Zak as “voltage”, is actually more often used in the meaning “tension” (including the figurative meanings “nervous feeling” or “no trust”).

2) Nivelir is confirmed in one of the documents to be a geodetic project, but the Sun-synchronous orbit used by Kosmos-2519 is not indicative of a geodetic mission.

3) One of the documents links the designator 14F150 to Nivelir and another says one of the Soyuz launch pads (17P32-S4) at Plesetsk was to be modified for 14F150, confirming that 14F150 is to be launched by a Soyuz-type rocket (although not necessarily the Soyuz-2.1v). Apparently, the reasoning was that Kosmos-2519 is most likely 14F150 (Nivelir) because that is the only Soyuz-launched classified military payload identified in the procurement documents that had not yet been launched. But, as I just mentioned, it doesn’t like Kosmos-2519 is on a geodetic mission…

So, unless Anatoly Zak has inside information that we don’t know about, what evidence is left that Kosmos-2519 is  14F150/Nivelir/Napryazhenie?

Let’s not forget that this is what the Ministry of Defense has officially said about the payload

http://tass.ru/kosmos/4362793

"The satellite is a space platform on which several types of payloads can be installed. The payload [for this mission] is equipment for remote sensing of the Earth and equipment to photograph objects in space".

It seems hard to combine both of those functions on one and the same satellite (especially a relatively small one like this), but the orbital behaviour of Kosmos-2519 does seem to indicate that both missions are plausible.
The Sun-synchronous orbit is suggestive of a remote sensing mission and the fact that Kosmos-2519 in the same orbital plane as Kosmos-2486/Persona-2  may mean that (for whatever reason) it may perform a  rendezvous with that satellite. If a second (unannounced) satellite is indeed involved, one could be on a remote sensing mission, the other on an inspection mission. This, of course, brings back memories of the mysterious payloads (Kosmos-2491, 2499, 2504) launched piggyback on three Rokot missions in 2013-2015 that were reportedly also on simulated inspection missions and the first two of which were not announced after launch.

It will be interesting to see the coming days if Kosmos-2519 gets any closer to Kosmos-2486. I'm not sure if this is always up to date, but you can track the position of both satellites on n2yo.com. 
 
The Ministry of Defence press release also says the satellite uses a platform (bus) that can be used for other payloads. This could be a completely new, unidentified bus, but it might just as well be a known bus. Any speculation what that might be? The MSS bus used by Bars-M looks too heavy (Soyuz-2.1v can launch just 1,400 kg into SSO and Bars-M weighs about 4 tons).  One possible candidate that comes to mind is the bus that PO Polyot built for the military Kanopus-ST remote sensing satellite (lost on the first Soyuz-2-1v launch in 2015), but there are probably other candidates as well.

Offline apachhi

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #72 on: 06/27/2017 06:52 am »
Closer to Kosmos 2519 (2017-037A)  with APRIZESAT 5 (2011-044E), 27.06.2017, 09:37:02 UTC, 593 m.

Offline input~2

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #73 on: 06/27/2017 08:16 am »
Closer to Kosmos 2519 (2017-037A)  with APRIZESAT 5 (2011-044E), 27.06.2017, 09:37:02 UTC, 593 m.
Close enough to take a good picture ;D

Online Alter Sachse

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #74 on: 06/27/2017 10:41 am »
Closer to Kosmos 2519 (2017-037A)  with APRIZESAT 5 (2011-044E), 27.06.2017, 09:37:02 UTC, 593 m.
Close enough to take a good picture ;D
Now I understand reply #36
"The payload is equipment for remote sensing of the Earth and equipment to photograph objects in space" :) :)
One day you're a hero  next day you're a clown  there's nothing that is in between
        Jeff Lynne - "21century man"

Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #75 on: 06/27/2017 01:40 pm »
Isn't it fun to have something that's unexplained and secret again?   Just like the "good old days" before perestroyka and glasnost. :)
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane - WJ.

Online Alter Sachse

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #76 on: 06/27/2017 02:22 pm »
Isn't it fun to have something that's unexplained and secret again?   Just like the "good old days" before perestroyka and glasnost. :)
We move backwards... :(
One day you're a hero  next day you're a clown  there's nothing that is in between
        Jeff Lynne - "21century man"

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #77 on: 06/27/2017 02:47 pm »
Isn't it fun to have something that's unexplained and secret again?   Just like the "good old days" before perestroyka and glasnost. :)

Maybe in forty years, there will be a full-scale mock-up of Cosmos-2519 in the Moscow Memorial Museum of Cosmonautics, and it will be very funny to compare the informations with this thread... :D
Nicolas PILLET
Kosmonavtika : The French site on Russian Space

Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #78 on: 06/27/2017 02:57 pm »
Isn't it fun to have something that's unexplained and secret again?   Just like the "good old days" before perestroyka and glasnost. :)
Maybe in forty years, there will be a full-scale mock-up of Cosmos-2519 in the Moscow Memorial Museum of Cosmonautics, and it will be very funny to compare the informations with this thread... :D

Ah, the nostalgia for the days when one new rocket engine would be revealed and we could design whole new launchers around it!   These days people can't imagine the fun that we old-timers had in the early 1980s and earlier.
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane - WJ.

Offline Stan Black

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #79 on: 06/27/2017 04:00 pm »
I wonder if the connection between Nivelir and the geodesy mission is the Karat-200 platform/bus from Lavochkin?

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