Author Topic: NASA Langley confirms they are working to confirm the Widom/Larsen LENR theory  (Read 57610 times)

Offline Robert Thompson

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Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Aircraft, Feb 19-27, 2014
https://connect.arc.nasa.gov/p1zygzm2h3i/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true&pbMode=normal
36 mins.
Doesn't validate phenomenon, but runs with it. May not be worth your time.

Offline cordwainer

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I am skeptical of LENR but I think it is a shade more likely that some as yet unexplained phenomena is happening here that might be useful as opposed to Blacklights "hydrinos". More research should be made, at the very least it will put the cold fusion camp at rest if nothing pans out.

Offline Raj2014

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Any new news on the low energy nuclear reactions?

Offline sparkymark79

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Yep, a multi million dollar buyout from Industrial Heat with Rossi staying on as Chief Scientist.

I 1MW plant now in operation in a clients premises making usable heat (although no disclosure)

A 6 month report being published within the next week or so with many peer reviewers and apparently full disclosure. rumours are circulating that it's positive. Next few weeks should be very interesting. I recommend you look at http://www.e-catworld.com/

Offline sparkymark79

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Hehe, and lo and behold it appears the very same day I posted this.

available here as a PDF:

http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/LuganoReportSubmit.pdf


Offline Star One

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There's a thread for this over on Talk Polywell that in the past has caused a lot of heat.

Offline bad_astra

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Is E-Cat from now on a forbidden subject at NSF? I noticed the entire thread was removed.
"Contact Light" -Buzz Aldrin

Offline aceshigh

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Is E-Cat from now on a forbidden subject at NSF? I noticed the entire thread was removed.

I don´t think the mods liked you creating a new ECAT thread for something that you could very well have posted on this topic.

Offline bad_astra

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I did not create a thread.
"Contact Light" -Buzz Aldrin

Offline aceshigh

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I did not create a thread.

well, someone had. And there was this one already.

Offline RotoSequence

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In light of the FTL neutrino debacle, I'm going to wait and see what other labs have to say before getting my hopes up.

Offline aceshigh

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Is there a FTL neutrino debate? I thought that had already been solved and the result was no FTL neutrinos, just measurement errors. We know neutrinos escape a supernova much earlier than the light from the supernova explosion, because they just get through all those layers of dense mass as if nothing existed.

Offline Cinder

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Debacle, not debate.
The pork must flow.

Offline sghill

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So for anyone who doesn't follow LENR news (bear with me if you do- or chime in), here's a little summary of the E-Cat saga.

One of the central P.T. Barnum figures in the LENR world, Andrea Rossi, may have captured the lightning in a bottle.  His "E-Cat" technology has been at the forefront, but he's such a shady character, that no one has been taking him seriously.  Anyhoo, fast forward a few years, and he's got a little factory setup in Italy making Megawatt-scale direct to electricity fusion reactors.  He's building them in shipping containers, and offering them for sale for $1.5 million for a 1 MW reactor (my last solar project was 455kW for $8 million).  Still no one takes him seriously because he won't allow 3rd party testing of the system.  Finally, a known Research Triangle investment firm-Cherokee Investment Partners- buys into the concept and buys Rossi's technology earlier this year, and then sets up a company called Industrial Heat to exploit it, finally bringing it out of the shadows.  http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/industrial-heat-has-acquired-andrea-rossis-e-cat-technology-241853361.html  They then allow one of the units' performance to be verified in Switzerland by a 3rd party.  The results were published yesterday afternoon.

I'll note that even though 3rd party testing was conducted, the guys sponsoring the report are friends with Rossi, and he wasn't entirely out of the picture during the setup and analysis phases.  So don't go short selling oil futures just yet.
« Last Edit: 10/09/2014 07:57 PM by sghill »
Bring the thunder Elon!

Offline Damon Hill

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What I'm seeing so far is lots of heat, but not light.  Nor electricity, nor motion.  Electricity in, heat out.  Maybe net heat out, but the tyranny of thermodynamics is still not broken.

This would be bigger news if some kind of direct conversion to electricity, or motion, were involved. 

But I'm not seeing any evidence for that.  Just invested energy being turned into low grade heat.

Offline Damon Hill

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Thermodynamics.  Is no one paying attention to practical application?  We've already got nuclear energy, but what does it take to turn nuclear energy into useful energy, at what cost?

I see invested energy being turned into low grade heat.  But that's not the whole story.

Offline AdrianW

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So for anyone who doesn't follow LENR news (bear with me if you do- or chime in), here's a little summary of the E-Cat saga. [...]
That was a very balanced summary, well done! Most comments on the Internet are either irrationally dismissive or irrationally optimistic.


What I'm seeing so far is lots of heat, but not light.  Nor electricity, nor motion.  Electricity in, heat out.  Maybe net heat out, but the tyranny of thermodynamics is still not broken.

This would be bigger news if some kind of direct conversion to electricity, or motion, were involved. 

But I'm not seeing any evidence for that.  Just invested energy being turned into low grade heat.
What?! If the results of the experiment are valid – and you don't voice any doubts – then this goes way beyond generation of heat! Just because the tested device doesn't already have a power outlet where you can plug in your waffle iron, doesn't mean that it doesn't have practical and commercial uses.
It seems to me that you have watched too many movies in which theoretical physicists make a world-changing breakthrough, build a generator, and power their lab with their new invention – all on their own, and in their garage.  :P

Besides, the experiment was not about how much electricity could be generated, and it was not about optimizing the heat output (the authors explicitly stated that they throttled the reactor to ensure a stable run).


Offline sghill

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Thermodynamics.  Is no one paying attention to practical application?  We've already got nuclear energy, but what does it take to turn nuclear energy into useful energy, at what cost?

I see invested energy being turned into low grade heat.  But that's not the whole story.

You're missing the point. Anything that generates Watts is an energy source.  Some are more efficient than others.

Here's a great little chart showing energy densities of various fuel sources, including the E-cat results from the 2013 and now 2014 testing from the "LENR FTW" forum.  It's reported energy density is just below plutonium, but more importantly the specific power output over time is second only to TNT.
Bring the thunder Elon!

Offline JasonAW3

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I'm not really sure what is happening, but I don't know of ANY chemical process that can change the isotopic make up of particular materials.

Couple of questions;  Is the net heat being put out higher than the amount of power being put into the system.
   Next; Is the net heat output higher than any electrically catalized chemical reactions known to science?
   Next; Is the net heat output higher than any known chemical reaction but lower than any known nuclear reaction?
   Next; is there ANY radiation output of anykind.  One would expect that any sort of nuclear reaction of any known type would put out at LEAST a slightly higher than background radiation level.
   And last: Using a baseline radiation reading before activation of the E-Cat system, is the radiation detected during its' operation more, equal to or even less than normal background radiation?

     Assuming fakery;  is there any way that the system could be getting fed excess heat, either via an electrical or chemical means.

     Assuming that this is not some sort of fakery, the reason that the team seem so cagey about allowing closer examination of their system may be due to the fact, that, it may be working on some sort of simple principle that these folks may have stumbled across, that they are trying to see if they can patent how they are making use of this principle.  My guess, is that if this is purely on the up and up, that when physicists are allowed to fully examine the system, that they'll be thumping themselves on the heads, because the principle will be so obvious, that everyone overlooked it.

     From the descriptions, it seems like whatever the reaction is, requires the addition of a small amount of electron flow to catalize the reaction.  Cut the electricity, and the reaction stops.  The closest example I can think of off the top of my head is the electrical seperation of hydrogen and oxygen from water.  While this does produce a small amount of heat and a combustible fuel, the overall reaction is energy negative.  You put more energy into the process than you get out.

My God!  It's full of universes!

Offline Damon Hill

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I'm trying to be a practical person, and I'm just not particularly impressed.  People see energy generated, but I don't see electricity or motion being generated.  Most of that heat gain goes up the stack or out radiators and that bugs me, a lot.

Aneutronic fusion might be a true revolution as it generates highly charged helium nuclei, which charge could be neatly captured at double the efficiency of any heat engine.  You see 40% electricity with a complex of turbines and heat exchangers; I see 60% heat that's mostly a liability with some limited application.  With polywell-based p-B11 fusion, that's up to around 80% electricity and just20% lost heat that has to be dissipated.  Thermodynamic's tyranny hasn't been totally broken, but the chains are a lot looser.  Polywell's still a complex technology that has yet to be mastered, but it'd be revolutionary.

I'm being difficult, but I'm being practical.

Oh well, let's see where LENR actually takes us.  Maybe it's more practical than I think it is.
« Last Edit: 10/09/2014 08:05 PM by Damon Hill »

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