Author Topic: Space Universities  (Read 18933 times)

Offline simonbp

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Space Universities
« on: 03/15/2006 04:15 am »
As an undergraduate with a year left before (hopefully) going to grad school, I've been looking around at various universities with space orientated curricula/research, and I though this forum might be a good place to get suggestions...

To start out I'll mention my current school, the University of Alabama in Huntsville; UAH was founded in the 1950's on the urging of von Braun so he could have somewhere to send his engineers to get graduate degrees. It has since grown into a mid-size, science and engineering focused public university which (according to brochure I just picked up) performs over $50 million in research each year and consistantly ranks in the top 10 universities in NASA-sponsored research. Space-related work includes high-energy astrophysics, adaptive optics, and laser propulsion in the physics department, and advanced propusion and spacecraft design in the mechanical and aerospace engineering department.

Oh, and I believe we are the only university in the world with a Saturn V:



(The US Space and Rocket Center is across the street; the vertical Saturn V is visible across most of the campus...)

Simon ;)

Offline vt_hokie

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #1 on: 03/15/2006 07:05 am »
Virginia Tech has an excellent engineering program!    ;)

Offline Jim

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #2 on: 03/15/2006 11:41 am »
FIT/Florida Tech.

You want an honest opinion.  Don't railroad yourself into a "space" only degree.  Get a mechanical or electrical degree.  With the flips and turns of the space industry, you want to be flexible.  You can work in the space program with these degrees and move around within the program.  If something bad should happen (God forbid), you are employable outside the program.   I know too many people that have burned.  I have been lucky, I was nearly layoff off once, and jobs were scarce at the time.  I was thinking at the time, I wish I had more options. 

I have said my piece

Offline vt_hokie

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #3 on: 03/15/2006 04:39 pm »
I was laid off at my first job only two years out of college.  Talk about a rude awakening!  Mechanical engineering with some aero courses might give you a little more flexibility than an aerospace engineering degree.  But I have serious concerns about engineering in general as a profession in this country, and about the decline of the middle class overall.  However, that gets well beyond the scope of this discussion.  

I would still advise you to pursue what you love, but I think that an undergraduate degree in engineering followed by an MBA might be the best route, if you can stomach the boring business coursework!   ;)

Offline nacnud

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #4 on: 03/15/2006 05:21 pm »
For UK people I thought I'd mention that Surrey Uni is where the miro sat developer SSTL is based while Beagle 2 was built at Kent, however, I don't know what their engeneering courses are like.

Offline SpaceCat

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #5 on: 03/15/2006 11:05 pm »
I agree with Jim.  I was an FIT/FL Tech grad who got 'burned' on the pie-in-the-sky ocean science rush of the early '70's-- Aside from a brief stint at the Cape on Skylab and involvement with some undersea living projects,  basic training in engineering, physics and electronics allowed me to do other (not so fun) things to survive and (usually) pay the bills.

The only advantage to a space-related school like FIT or UAH, etc.- is that you'll likely have professors with real-world experience to pass along.  Looking back on the long-ago college years, I can say I learned just as much from the stories told by space and ocean science old-timers as I did from the textbooks! :)

Offline DavidB

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #6 on: 03/15/2006 11:53 pm »
Caltech and MIT are excellent.
The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is good, as well as Georgia Tech.
The University of Texas at Austin (UTA) is good too, and many NASA employees are UTA graduates (does a UTA degree come with the promise of NASA employment upon graduation?).

I agree that you should not focus solely on Aerospace Engineering. If you can tolerate circuits and electronics, go with Electrical Engineering; it has the best employment potential, and you are not relying solely on the aerospace industry.

Is your goal, indeed, to be an Aerospace Engineer, or do you simply want employment in an Aerospace field? If you just want to work in the field but don't necessarily have to be an Aerospace Engineer, my same advice holds: become an Electrical Engineer (or a Mechanical Engineer) with a specialization in an aerospace-related field. Quite often, the best route into the aerospace industry is an indirect one.

Here's an idea: pretend you are a grad right now and that you are seeking a job. Spend some time on the job boards (for example, monster.com, careerbuilder.com, hotjobs.com,  etc.) and get an idea what is available in the aerospace field. I suspect you will find that aerospace employers want SPECIALIZATION in avionics, electronics, landing gears, materials, structures, heat shielding, gasdynamics, combustion, etc., rather than a generalist with a little bit of exposure to spacecraft design, aircraft design, aerodynamics, circuits, etc.. You won't see too many posting for Aerospace Engineers.

Offline Orbiter Obvious

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #7 on: 03/16/2006 01:56 am »
Any good reccomendations for So Cal?

Offline vt_hokie

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #8 on: 03/16/2006 02:49 am »
Quote
Orbiter Obvious - 15/3/2006  9:56 PM

Any good reccomendations for So Cal?

I've only been to the Los Angeles area once outside of airport layovers, and I don't know too much about the schools down there.  (Incidentally, the one time I was there was for a trip to Lockheed Martin back when I was on X-33.)  I think USC has a very good engineering program, though.  And I guess Cal Poly San Luis Obispo must have an aerospace engineering program, as I remember them always doing well in aircraft design competitions.

I have been out to Palo Alto on business, though, and I stayed right next to Stanford.  That's a great school, obviously, with a beautiful campus.  UC Berkeley is also a top notch school.  I went up to Berkeley one night with some friends, but I don't remember much except for the bar we went to!   ;)

One of my classmates at Virginia Tech went on to grad school at Caltech, and he just completed his Ph.D. there.  I always knew that guy was a genius!   :)

Offline simonbp

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #9 on: 03/16/2006 03:17 am »
(I should have mentioned this before, but) I'm actually now a physics major looking to major in applied physics in grad school with a focus probably in either advanced propulsion or guidance research...

I'll probably apply to the big names (MIT, Caltech, Georgia Tech, Johns Hopkins), but I was just curious what other options were out there...

BTW, I didn't know Beagle 2 was built at the University of Kent; my father is from Canterbury....

Simon ;)

Offline vt_hokie

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #10 on: 03/16/2006 03:32 am »
...oh, and I should probably mention my second choice school, Purdue University!  I visited the campus back when I was looking at colleges.  That's another very good school for engineering.  But there are so many choices - too many to list, in fact.  So, for what it's worth, check out the U.S. News rankings.  And there are all sorts of other rankings of course, all to be taken with a grain of salt.

I've always loved Princeton.  Growing up in New Jersey and being a train fanatic, I used to ride trains all over the place, and Princeton was always one of my favorite destinations.  It's obviously one of the best of the best overall, and many probably don't realize that it has a strong engineering program.  And it has a beautiful campus!  

Offline lmike

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #11 on: 03/16/2006 03:41 am »
From what I heard Stanford (North Cal.) has a strong curriculum in the field, here's the school's site: http://aa.stanford.edu/  Although, perhaps leaning more towards the 'pure science' side rather than more applied and diversified for job search.  Both grad and undergrad.  The Gravity-B probe is their flagship project (physics dept. also) they did for NASA, a nice PhD thesis (if one can get the grant).

Offline vt_hokie

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #12 on: 03/16/2006 03:46 am »
Quote
simonbp - 15/3/2006  11:17 PM

(I should have mentioned this before, but) I'm actually now a physics major looking to major in applied physics in grad school with a focus probably in either advanced propulsion or guidance research...

Interesting stuff!  :)

Quote
I'll probably apply to the big names (MIT, Caltech, Georgia Tech, Johns Hopkins), but I was just curious what other options were out there...

If you can get into MIT, I have to say that Boston is a very cool city!  I love it there, and it's where I'd like to move.

Offline Rocket Guy

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #13 on: 03/16/2006 03:58 am »
Embry-Riddle, where I am now, is the number one aero engineering university in the country for schools that do not offer doctorates. We go up to Masters', so it may not be what you are looking for. But if you have any questions feel free to ask :-)

Offline Avron

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #14 on: 03/16/2006 04:03 am »
Quote
DavidB - 15/3/2006  7:53 PM

Here's an idea: pretend you are a grad right now and that you are seeking a job. Spend some time on the job boards (for example, monster.com, careerbuilder.com, hotjobs.com,  etc.) and get an idea what is available in the aerospace field. I suspect you will find that aerospace employers want SPECIALIZATION in avionics, electronics, landing gears, materials, structures, heat shielding, gasdynamics, combustion, etc., rather than a generalist with a little bit of exposure to spacecraft design, aircraft design, aerodynamics, circuits, etc.. You won't see too many posting for Aerospace Engineers.

That sir, that is great advice... then look at the more flex.. options and see how they fit, both the demand and your dreams... Fact, the world will change... all we have in terms of fact is here and now... and change..

Offline JamesSpaceFlight

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #15 on: 03/16/2006 12:55 pm »
Loughborough has a few former NASA people as professors.

Offline edkyle99

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #16 on: 03/16/2006 06:50 pm »
Purdue would be a good choice.  It has solid engineering, physics, and business
schools, and has a long history of training people who worked in the space
"business".  Astronauts, for example.  According to this site

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/astro/astromain.html

"22 Purdue alumni have been chosen for space flight, including Neil A. Armstrong,
the first man to walk on the moon, and Eugene A. Cernan, the last man to do so.
Two of Purdue's alumni astronauts, Roger B. Chaffee and Virgil "Gus" Grissom,
were killed on Jan. 26, 1967, when an explosion and fire occurred during a
simulated launch of their Apollo spacecraft.

Alumnus Jerry Ross ... has logged 58 hours and 18 minutes in nine spacewalks,
more spacewalk time than any other NASA astronaut. His seventh space flight,
aboard Atlantis in April 2002, also is a record."

I'm a Purdue alum.  I worked at KSC for a number of years out of school
and I received 20 or so job offers from places like JPL, McDonnell Douglas,
NASA, etc.  The place gave me plenty of opportunites then, and continues
to do so today.

I met my wife there too, in a PE class!

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Propforce

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #17 on: 03/16/2006 10:31 pm »
Quote
edkyle99 - 16/3/2006  11:50 AM

Purdue would be a good choice.  It has solid engineering, physics, and business
schools, and has a long history of training people who worked in the space
"business".  Astronauts, for example.  

 - Ed Kyle

Purdue has an excellent reputation in aerospace engineering and I work/ worked with many Purdue graduates.  

But 25 yrs ago I was advised strongly NOT go to Purdue, mainly due to the boring campus/ social life.  I was told that there's nothing but cornfield outside of the campus and, since the "legal" drinking age was 21 in the State of Indiana whereas some other states can drink legal at 18, I was highly encouraged to apply to other nearby schools as an undergraduate for a much improved social life.  I ended up in a well known "party school", though as an engineering student; I did not get to party much at all.

I think if you're going for a Ph.D. in Physics, you're very limited as to your employment opportunities specifically in aerospace.  You'd be focusing on the National Labs and/or Coperate Research Centers for employment which will be difficult to come by.  Most big aerospace companies are in the "system integration" business, in other words; they don't do much research themselves but they "buy" researches from smaller companies by "teaming arrangement".   Building a F-18 does not require indepth research of rarefied gas dynamics interaction in the subatomic particles level.  Most NASA centers do not conduct research themselves anymore, often they become technical over-seers, which means you get to review contractor's work rather than doing it yourselves.  For the most part, this industry is perfectly adequate with a M.S. in engineering.  

Needless to say, if you can get into elite graduate schools such as MIT, CalTech, Standford, Princeton, Columbia, UC-Berkeley, Harvard, etc., you'll have a lot more options when you get out.  But most other schools mentioned are pretty solid as well.  Your future chosen field may be largely determine by your professor who has fundings for your thesis, so choose carefully.


Offline vt_hokie

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #18 on: 03/16/2006 11:49 pm »
Quote
Propforce - 16/3/2006  6:31 PM
I ended up in a well known "party school", though as an engineering student; I did not get to party much at all.

Exactly!  I don't think it makes much difference if you're an engineering student.  I sure missed out on a lot of the partying in order to get through engineering in 4 years.  But then, I was such a dork that I was just as likely to be playing Microsoft Flight Simulator as I was socializing in my little bit of free time!  ;)  I did a fair amount of cycling, too, though.  Blacksburg is a paradise for mountain biking!  

Quote
Needless to say, if you can get into elite graduate schools such as MIT, CalTech, Standford, Princeton, Columbia, UC-Berkeley, Harvard, etc., you'll have a lot more options when you get out.  

It's funny that you mention Columbia.  You usually don't hear about it being a big engineering school, but I guess just being in the Ivy League gives it that elite status by default! ;) (For most other fields, Columbia certainly is among the elite.)  I actually got accepted there and started working on a masters degree in Mech Eng part time through their "video network", but it got to be too much for me on top of work, especially after getting laid off and having to move and start a new job.  So, I never finished.  I kind of regret that now, and I hope that being a Columbia dropout doesn't hurt me when I start applying to grad schools again!  I'm thinking more in terms of an MBA now.

Offline Dana

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RE: Space Universities
« Reply #19 on: 03/17/2006 12:20 am »
Iven Kincheloe, USAF Korean War Sabre ace and famed test pilot (he broke the altitude record in the notorious X-2 and was to be the lead USAF pilot for the X-15 before he was killed in an F-104 accident in 1958), was also a Purdue grad. When he was there, he already had his pilot's license and was one of the founders of a student flying club, which had a surplus Fairchild PT-19.

One day during the 1948 football season, Purdue students woke up one day and found that students from rival Indiana University had paid them a visit during the night-they had let all the air out of the tires of cars in the parking lots and scattered reading materials all over the campus poking fun at the Purdue football team. Well, that couldn't go unanswered, but the Purdue people knew that the IU campus was pretty heavily-guarded against such pranks. So the student council approached "Kinch" to do something about it....

The next day, IU students' attention was drawn skyward when a certain PT-19 circled low and noisy over the campus. Kinch circled the campus a few times to get everyone's attention-and then tossed a couple of loosely-bound packages out of the open cockpit. Soon, it was practically snowing pro-Purdue leaflets (some say there were 10,000 copies) all around the IU campus....
"Don't play dumb with me! You're not as good at it as I am!"-Col. Flagg

"'Second Place' is just the first loser."-Bobby Allison

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