Author Topic: Saturn V 500F question  (Read 18703 times)

Offline gordo

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Saturn V 500F question
« on: 01/19/2007 11:14 pm »
I was watching the excellent Mighty Saturns DVD today and noted that he 50F was de-stacked in 1966, with it being split up and section used for other purposes ahead of Pad B Checkout.  The first stage was put in storage

So 2 questions:

Was it ever re-stacked in '67 or '68 for Pad B check out?

What happened to the first stage, on Wiki its listed as location un-known




Offline dwmzmm

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #1 on: 01/20/2007 03:14 am »
I thought the SIC of the 500F model was on display at KSC.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I remember reading somewhere a while back...
Dave, NAR # 21853 SR.

Offline max isp

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RE: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #2 on: 01/20/2007 06:00 pm »
The S-IC-F was destacked on 21 October 1966. The stage was then shipped to Michoud aboard the barge Poseidon on 10 October 1966. After some testing it was shipped on to Marshall on the Poseidon on 29 September 1969. That was the last anyone heard of it.

Alan.

Offline dwmzmm

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #3 on: 01/21/2007 04:21 am »
I checked one source a while ago and learned the S-IC-F was scrapped (where, I wouldn't know)...
Dave, NAR # 21853 SR.

Offline edkyle99

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RE: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #4 on: 01/21/2007 04:18 pm »
Quote
gordo - 19/1/2007  6:14 PM

I was watching the excellent Mighty Saturns DVD today and noted that he 50F was de-stacked in 1966, with it being split up and section used for other purposes ahead of Pad B Checkout.  The first stage was put in storage

So 2 questions:

Was it ever re-stacked in '67 or '68 for Pad B check out?

What happened to the first stage, on Wiki its listed as location un-known

S-1C-F was returned to Marshall Space Flight Center after the facilities testing at KSC was completed.  It was reportedly "stored on lot" for a time, perhaps for several years, before being scrapped.

The second stage had a better fate.  It was reassigned for use as a dynamic test stage at Marshall after the first "S-2-S/D" was destroyed in an accident.  S-2-F/D served as part of the SA-500-D vehicle in the Dynamic Test Stand at MSFC during early 1967.  It is now displayed as part of the dynamic test vehicle at the US. Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville.    

S-IVB-F is a bit of a mystery to me.  It served double duty, first for facilities testing as a Saturn IB stage at both LC34 and LC37B at Cape Kennedy (Canaveral) in 1965 and as part of the SA-500F stack at KSC LC39 in late 1965 to 1966.  There is a chance that it may have been the one that was stored in a boneyard at KSC for a number of years before finally being scrapped during the late 1980s or early 1990s.  I remember seeing a derelict S-IVB stage at KSC in 1986.  This S-IVB had reportedly been used to test Skylab mods.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline gordo

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #5 on: 01/22/2007 11:09 pm »
The KSC one is made up of S-IC-T.  Which I suspect was a more operational stage than the S-IC-F ? The S-IVB-F is also AWOL.

Going back to one of my original questions, anyone know if 500F was used for PadB check out was was the Apollo 10 vehicle used?  That was the only Saturn V launch from 39B, it then  did the 4 Milk-stool launches.

Offline gordo

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #6 on: 01/23/2007 12:19 am »
I'm going to correct myself here and say that the S-IVB-F was used as the Skylab dynamic test article, then records show it went to KSC in 1974 to make up that Saturn V, but other records say that the S-IVB on that is S-IVB-514.    How do you lose a booster ;)

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #7 on: 01/23/2007 02:38 am »
Quote
gordo - 22/1/2007  6:09 PM

The KSC one is made up of S-IC-T.  Which I suspect was a more operational stage than the S-IC-F ? The S-IVB-F is also AWOL.

Right.  S-1C-T was the "All systems" test stage, also known as the "T-Bird". It was built at and by MSFC, beginning in 1963 (making it the first "real" S-IC stage).   The stage was completed in early 1965 and fitted with five F-1 engines for use in numerous static propulsion tests, first at MSFC and later at Mississippi Test Facility (today's Stennis).

S-1C-F was a facilities test stage fitted with one dummy F-1 engine and four F-1 mass simulators.

There were also S-1C-S, a structural test stage without engines, and S-1C-D, the dynamic test stage.  S-1C-S was also scrapped.

I did a series of web pages on Saturn launch vehicle history a few years ago.  See:  http://www.geocities.com/launchreport/satstg5.html

Quote
Going back to one of my original questions, anyone know if 500F was used for PadB check out was was the Apollo 10 vehicle used?  That was the only Saturn V launch from 39B, it then  did the 4 Milk-stool launches.

I don't have any record of SA-500F being at 39B.  Pad B was completed in November 1966, one month after SA-500F was destacked after its original use at Pad A.  Remember that the launch vehicle interfaced with the mobile launchers.  The launch pad itself was little more than an exhaust duct, some propellant lines, and some cable connections.  Once the engineering effort at Pad A with SA-500F had proved out the basics, Pad B could be tested without a Saturn V standing atop it.  There was a Moon Race on, after all!

 - Ed Kyle

Offline space_bass

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #8 on: 01/25/2007 01:55 pm »
That is a good question.  Even Alan Lawrie, author of "Saturn" only states: "On 29 September 1969 Boeing delivered S-IC-F stage to MSFC.  The stage traveled from Michoud aboard the covered barge Poseidon."  That was the last entry for that particular stage.  It must have been scrapped.

Offline James (Lockheed)

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #9 on: 01/25/2007 02:02 pm »
I'm at MSFC for a meeting. I will ask around and if its still here will take a picture at lunch if its closeby and accessable.

Offline James (Lockheed)

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #10 on: 01/25/2007 06:22 pm »
Sorry guys. Word is it was scrapped "to make room".

Offline gordo

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #11 on: 01/25/2007 09:06 pm »
There was near enough a 4th full Saturn V worth of test pieces scrapped.

Anyone have details on what was found when they restored the KSC one to find out of the 3rd stage was indeed from the 500F/Skylab dynamic test?

I think it bad that the KSC exhibit its dressed as S-IC-6.   That juts as bad as deciding to rename Enterprise as Columbia

Offline Stowbridge

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #12 on: 01/25/2007 10:56 pm »
Shame about the scrapping. :(
Veteran space reporter.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #13 on: 01/26/2007 04:29 am »
Quote
gordo - 25/1/2007  4:06 PM

There was near enough a 4th full Saturn V worth of test pieces scrapped.

Anyone have details on what was found when they restored the KSC one to find out of the 3rd stage was indeed from the 500F/Skylab dynamic test?

I remember reading that Smithsonian investigators were surprised to discover that the KSC Saturn V had (and still has) S-IVB-514 rather than S-IVB-500F.  

The SA-500F Apollo command module and spacecraft launch adapter survived and were part of the SA-209 Saturn IB displayed at the KSC Visitors Center.  I seem to recall that part or all of these components corroded so badly that they had to be replaced by mockups a few years ago.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline SimonShuttle

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #14 on: 01/27/2007 04:00 pm »
Why would they scrap it? No takers back then to look after it? Was it a complete vehicle, or just some stage?

Offline dwmzmm

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #15 on: 01/27/2007 10:01 pm »
Quote
SimonShuttle - 27/1/2007  11:00 AM

Why would they scrap it? No takers back then to look after it? Was it a complete vehicle, or just some stage?

It was a full size mockup (basically) of the Saturn - V SIC stage.  Heck, they could of just put it in my
back yard if no one wanted it!! ;)
Dave, NAR # 21853 SR.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #16 on: 01/28/2007 04:16 am »
Quote
dwmzmm - 27/1/2007  5:01 PM

Quote
SimonShuttle - 27/1/2007  11:00 AM

Why would they scrap it? No takers back then to look after it? Was it a complete vehicle, or just some stage?

It was a full size mockup (basically) of the Saturn - V SIC stage.  Heck, they could of just put it in my
back yard if no one wanted it!! ;)

I wouldn't call it a mere mockup.  It had electrics and plumbing, and it was used for propellant loading tests at the pad.  It didn't have any real F-1 engines though, which probably made it easier to scrap at the time.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline dwmzmm

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #17 on: 01/28/2007 04:25 am »
Quote
edkyle99 - 27/1/2007  11:16 PM

Quote
dwmzmm - 27/1/2007  5:01 PM

Quote
SimonShuttle - 27/1/2007  11:00 AM

Why would they scrap it? No takers back then to look after it? Was it a complete vehicle, or just some stage?

It was a full size mockup (basically) of the Saturn - V SIC stage.  Heck, they could of just put it in my
back yard if no one wanted it!! ;)

I wouldn't call it a mere mockup.  It had electrics and plumbing, and it was used for propellant loading tests at the pad.  It didn't have any real F-1 engines though, which probably made it easier to scrap at the time.

 - Ed Kyle

Yes, I understand.  That's why, in my previous post, I put the word 'basically,' as I was well aware that a lot
could be done with the 500F SIC stage...
Dave, NAR # 21853 SR.

Offline max isp

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RE: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #18 on: 02/11/2007 07:46 pm »
To reply to the points on this thread;

There were originally plans to use the 500F at pad 39B in 1967 following the pad 39A trials in 1966 but this never happened.

The S-IC-F trail ends at MSFC in 1969. There is a photo of it being shipped to MSFC in my book, "Saturn", page 151.

The S-IVB-F stage had a very interesting life. It was used in trials on the Beta III stand at SACTO and at KSC on LC-34 (not 37). Then it formed part of the 500F Saturn V vehicle on pad 39A in 1966. During 1970 the stage was converted to the Skylab OWS dynamic test article. It underwent testing in Houston and later MSFC. In June 1974 it was shipped to KSC and probably scrapped. The third stage currently on display at KSC is the S-IVB-514, not the S-IVB-F.

I hope that this helps.

Online catdlr

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Re: Saturn V 500F question
« Reply #19 on: 08/13/2016 01:17 am »
bump ....

Saturn V Apollo SA-500F Shake Test at VAB 1966-10-14 NASA Kennedy Space Center

Jeff Quitney

Published on Aug 12, 2016
On October 14, 1966, a "boilerplate" full Saturn V and Apollo spacecraft stack inside the Vehicle Assembly Building is rocked back and forth by employees pushing with their feet and pulling with a rope so that stability and stresses which might result from winds at the launch pad can be measured. During the test the escape tower at the top of the Saturn V broke off and fell, but no one was injured.

SA-500F (alternately SA500F, 500F, or Facilities Integration Vehicle) was a dummy Saturn V used by NASA to test facilities at Launch Complex 39 at the Kennedy Space Center on Merritt Island, Florida during 1966. Tests included the mating of the Saturn's stages in the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB), the fit of the service platforms, the launcher-transporter operation, the propellant loading system, and the test connections to the mobile launcher and support equipment.

"Its three stages duplicated the flight configuration, ordnance, and umbilical connections of their live counterparts. Although inert, the retrograde rockets, ullage rockets, and shaped charges had the dimensions of the live ordnance to let the launch team practice ordnance installation. The first stage only had one real F-1 engine, and the inter-tank section between the first and second stages had a different paint scheme than flight vehicles. It was stacked on Mobile Launcher 1 in VAB Bay 1 with the Apollo spacecraft facilities verification vehicle boilerplate.

"500F was rolled out to Pad A on May 25, 1966. On June 8, it was rolled back to the VAB temporarily as Hurricane Alma passed, though the ground crew supposed the rollback was more of an exercise than necessity because winds remained below critical for the entire storm. Facility checkout culminated with a "wet test" to verify storage and transfer of propellants

"500F was destacked on October 21, 1966. The first stage, S-1C-F, was returned to the Marshall Space Flight Center and was eventually scrapped.

"The second stage, S-IIC-F, was reassigned as a dynamic test stage at Marshall in early 1967 as S-II-F/D for use in the dynamic test vehicle SA-500D. It is now displayed as part of the Saturn V at the U.S. Space & Rocket Center.

"The third stage, S-IV-B-500F, had been manufactured as a dummy third stage for the smaller Saturn IB and used to check Saturn IB launch complex facilities. It was then modified to meet the Saturn V third stage configuration for 500F. In 1970, it was modified into the Skylab Workshop Dynamic Test Stage and was shipped in December to the Johnson Space Center for dynamic testing. In June 1971, it was shipped to Marshall for Skylab workshop static testing; and in June 1974 it was returned to KSC. Its fate is not known."

Article:
How Tennis Shoes and Tug-of-War Toppled the Mighty Saturn V
http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-010708a.html

NASA, Saturn V, Project Apollo, moon program, space program, Apollo program, shake test, VAB, Vehicle Assembly Building, Cape Kennedy, KSC, Kennedy Space Center, Cape Canaveral, Merritt Island,







Reupload of a previously uploaded film with improved video & sound.

Public domain film from NASA, slightly cropped to remove uneven edges, with the aspect ratio corrected, and one-pass brightness-contrast-color correction & mild video noise reduction applied.

The soundtrack was also processed with volume normalization, noise reduction, clipping reduction, and/or equalization (the resulting sound, though not perfect, is far less noisy than the original).
Tony De La Rosa, ...I'm no Feline Dealer!! I move mountains.  but I'm better known for "I think it's highly sexual." Japanese to English Translation.

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