Author Topic: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION  (Read 32832 times)

Offline woods170

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #120 on: 12/19/2017 09:50 AM »

It's not the number of years per se, but the engineering & manufacturing generation it was created in.

For instance products created before high volume 3D printing became practical for rocket engine parts may not be able to be redesigned to take advantage of the cost and time savings that 3D printing can provide. Which would put the Vinci engine in the same situation as the RL-10.

Vinci manufacturing processes aren't that old:

Arianegroup:

Quote
The economic challenge is one of our main concerns today. The Vinci engine is purpose-designed to cost requirements. That is why we chose an "Expander" cycle. This technology sidesteps specific gas generators, as opposed to our other engines. We have also packed many technological breakthroughs into this engine, including powder metallurgy and additive manufacturing, to optimize operating cost-efficiency even further.
https://www.safran-group.com/media/20131120_vinci-one-engine-two-ariane-launchers

Yes, I'm aware of those changes (in bold) and they are limited in nature (injector mostly). You also have to consider the time-frame when to changes were inserted: over 5 years ago. Back then they may have been intended to reduce cost but those cost-savings have been overtaken by reality.

The part about being "purpose-designed to cost requirements" is an empty statement given that those cost-requirements date back to Ariane 5 ME (over a decade ago). A decade ago ESA and Arianespace didn't have to worry about SpaceX disrupting the market.

Calapine, you really have to learn that statements, such as the above one by Safran Group, are purely spin PR. "Cost-effectiveness" in particular is a phrase coined by contractors to hide the fact their products are still horrendously expensive.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #121 on: 01/02/2018 05:17 PM »
Replying to John Smith 19 here, from the Vulcan thread where we were drifting off-topic.
Re: ULA Vulcan Launch Vehicle - Business Case/Competition/Alternatives Discussion
« Reply #120 on: Today at 09:27 AM »
Quote
Quote
Quote from: edkyle99 on Today at 08:28 AM
NGL is not going to launch astronauts.
I very strongly doubt it will launch anything ever.

How long did ATK take to get to the Aries 1-x flight from CxP programme start?
ATK's portion of that contract was ready to fly long before Ares I-X rolled out.  The schedule drivers were the NASA parts that simulated the upper stage and Orion, etc.  ATK only had the first stage contract.  Ares 1-X flew about three years after NASA really started the program. 
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Then they promoted Liberty, and said they'd pursue it with company funds even if not selected for COTS. They weren't selected and they didn't pursue it.

So they have a track record of taking
a) A  very long time to deliver incomplete hardware (4 working segments of a 5 segment booster and a completely dummy US and mass simulator after how much money was spent on what was pitched as
basically the upgraded Shuttle SRB's?)
ATK delivered four working segments and a fifth segment simulator as called for in their NASA contract.  The upper stage and Orion mass simulators were provided by NASA.

At any rate, you are talking about a company (ATK) that no longer exists.  It is Orbital ATK now, headed by the former Orbital CEO, but soon even that entity will cease to exists as it is merged into Northrop Grumman.  NGL clearly comes more from the Orbital than the ATK side of the house.  Orbital developed the world's first commercial orbital launch vehicle, and followed up with more launch vehicle developments.  They are clearly devoting serious resources to NGL (just read this thread to see some results).  You may dismiss their proposal out of hand based on your misunderstandings about this company and its program, but I'm certainly not.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 01/02/2018 05:36 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #122 on: 01/02/2018 08:00 PM »
Liberty relied on Ariane supplied US, while NGLV US will be built inhouse with engine outsource. Should be lot cheaper to build plus they have access to all of Orbitals avionics and systems.

Offline jacqmans

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #123 on: 01/05/2018 10:01 AM »
Orbital ATK Signs Cooperative Agreement with U.S. Air Force Space and Missile Systems Center

Research and Development Agreement Enables Certification of Orbital ATK’s Next Generation Launch System


Dulles, Virginia 04 January 2018 – Orbital ATK (NYSE: OA), a global leader in aerospace and defense technologies, today announced it has signed a Cooperative Research and Development Agreement (CRADA) with the U.S. Air Force’s Space and Missile Systems Center (SMC). The CRADA provides the framework and plan for data exchanges needed to certify Orbital ATK’s Next Generation Launch (NGL) system to carry National Security Space missions.

“Under this CRADA, Orbital ATK is better able to support SMC in being the guardians of assured access to space,” said Scott Lehr, President of Orbital ATK’s Flight Systems Group. “We look forward to certifying NGL to launch National Security Space Missions.”

Orbital ATK is currently in early production of development hardware for NGL. To date, the company has jointly invested with the Air Force more than $200 million to develop the NGL rocket family.

In addition to launching the entire spectrum of national security payloads, the NGL family of vehicles will be capable of launching science and commercial satellites that are too large to be launched by Orbital ATK’s current Pegasus®, Minotaur and AntaresTM space launch vehicles. The NGL vehicles will share common propulsion, structures and avionics systems with other company programs, including smaller space launch vehicles as well as missile defense interceptors, target vehicles and strategic missile systems.

The next phase of the NGL program is expected to begin when the Air Force awards Launch Services Agreements in mid-2018, which would entail full vehicle and launch site development, with work taking place at company facilities in Promontory and Magna, Utah; Iuka, Mississippi; Chandler, Arizona; Kennedy Space Center, Florida, and Vandenberg Air Force Base, California.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #124 on: 01/06/2018 09:49 AM »
Quote
Signed Cooperative Research and Development Agreement with @AF_SMC enables certification of NGL to carry National Security Space missions bit.ly/2lU1pcw
"Every vision is a joke until the first man accomplishes it; once realized, it becomes commonplace." - Robert Goddard

Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #125 on: 01/25/2018 05:57 PM »
Maybe I'm going crazy, but this upper stage is sounding more and more like the 4 meter DCSS. Surely there's some obvious difference I'm just blanking on.

And for fun either way, how well would the Delta upper stage work on top of NGL?
« Last Edit: 01/25/2018 06:05 PM by JEF_300 »

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #126 on: 01/26/2018 01:52 AM »
Maybe I'm going crazy, but this upper stage is sounding more and more like the 4 meter DCSS. Surely there's some obvious difference I'm just blanking on.

And for fun either way, how well would the Delta upper stage work on top of NGL?

Seeing as NGL has two main solid stages it would not need an upper stage much larger than DCSS.
Though you couldn't use it as is since the two solids stages probably would have higher vibration and higher G accelerations than a CBC.
« Last Edit: 01/27/2018 06:02 PM by Patchouli »

Online brickmack

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Re: Orbital ATK NGL Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION
« Reply #127 on: 01/26/2018 08:15 PM »
Maybe I'm going crazy, but this upper stage is sounding more and more like the 4 meter DCSS. Surely there's some obvious difference I'm just blanking on.

And for fun either way, how well would the Delta upper stage work on top of NGL?

Why 4 meter? NGLs fairing is 5.25 meters wide. Should be able to support a pretty heavy upper stage too

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