Author Topic: How would Russia go to the moon?  (Read 223863 times)

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #180 on: 05/20/2014 01:40 am »
Get Happy...

Hah!  I had heard about this song.  Had not heard the song, nor seen the video!  246M views!

Thanks for the simple happiness!

Da peeple is lookin' for answers!  Happiness is.

Even if Russia is suggesting that we use trampolines.

Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline asmi

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #181 on: 05/21/2014 05:41 pm »
Time doesn't change statistics.
Soyuz and Shuttle still have the same fataly rate for a simple reason: the shuttle carried three times more astronauts than Soyuz while the overall number of flights is roughly similar (a bit more than a hundred).
Put otherwise, the shuttle had 135*7 seats (of which 14 were deadly) while the Soyuz has 3*100 seats (of which 4 were lethal). Do the math: its 1/67.5 vs 1/75, not that far appart.
Two things - Soyuz have a string of 110 missions without fatalities (111 is in progress now), while Shuttle failures are more or less evenly spaced, which indicates design issues with the latter.
BTW Soyuz have completed a total of 120 missions, 121 is in progress now.

Offline jongoff

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #182 on: 05/22/2014 11:06 pm »
By trampoline?

You beat me to the punch.

Offline SpaceRock

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #183 on: 05/28/2014 03:01 am »
I very rarely post here but read daily. I suspect that this sudden nationalistic trend is not doing any favors for the future that we all want in space. I was born in 1980. I have vague recollections of the cold war, and i thought that we have evolved past that point. Cooperation in space is what I grew up on, and have taken great pride in my country (USA) that we have been able to cooperate with former rivals (Russia, and even farther back japan) in space. I have always viewed space as the common denominator that elevated our countries past petty bickering. I also have faith that this will continue. I am a lowly high school astronomy teacher but I hope that for humanities sake we can keep going forward with healthy engineering competition and rise above political bickering. (my two cents, delete if inappropriate.)

Offline QuantumG

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #184 on: 05/28/2014 03:12 am »
I have vague recollections of the cold war, and i thought that we have evolved past that point.

I saw Terminator 2 in the cinema.

Sarah Connor: Skynet fights back.
The Terminator: Yes. It launches its missiles against the targets in Russia.
John Connor: Why attack Russia? Aren't they our friends now?
The Terminator: Because Skynet knows the Russian counter-attack will eliminate its enemies over here.


I could barely hear Arnie's line over the laughing.

Cooperation in space is what I grew up on, and have taken great pride in my country (USA) that we have been able to cooperate with former rivals (Russia, and even farther back japan) in space. I have always viewed space as the common denominator that elevated our countries past petty bickering.

It's always been play acting for the cameras. There is literally a line down the middle of the ISS that Cosmonauts have to report whenever they cross, so Russia can send a bill to NASA.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline SpaceRock

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #185 on: 05/28/2014 03:26 am »
i'm well aware there are both russian and american interests in the space station. (and yes, i've also seen 2010)
regardless, the US gave up on the Space Station Freedom and the Russians let Mir plummet. Even if it was a pure economical decision, it was a decision based on mutual trust and respect for each nation's space programs.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #186 on: 05/28/2014 03:41 am »
i'm well aware there are both russian and american interests in the space station. (and yes, i've also seen 2010)
regardless, the US gave up on the Space Station Freedom and the Russians let Mir plummet. Even if it was a pure economical decision, it was a decision based on mutual trust and respect for each nation's space programs.

It was a political decision too. The US lost economically (and continues to), but saw a way to get insight into Russian launch operations (read: ICBMs), and the Russians saw it much the same way. In no way was it a peace-and-love sing-along. International cooperation is a marketing term for keeping your enemies closer than your friends.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline high road

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #187 on: 05/28/2014 10:59 am »
Keeping your enemies closer makes it easier to access/copy the things they're good at. If there ever was a reason to keep the peace, it's right there. Peace and coöperation is cheaper than conflict and having to do everything yourself. Add competition to improve the things you both suck at (or where there's still a lot of room for improvement).

Taking decisions of cooperation based on shrewd arguments makes a much more durable peace than hippie dreams and goals ever will.

Offline HappyMartian

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #188 on: 06/07/2014 10:32 am »
Keeping your enemies closer makes it easier to access/copy the things they're good at. If there ever was a reason to keep the peace, it's right there. Peace and coöperation is cheaper than conflict and having to do everything yourself. Add competition to improve the things you both suck at (or where there's still a lot of room for improvement).

Taking decisions of cooperation based on shrewd arguments makes a much more durable peace than hippie dreams and goals ever will.


"The 285 page report, released on Wednesday, provided a refined view of NASA’s current roadmap, claiming international cooperation – including an alliance with the Chinese – and the potential use of the Moon as a proving ground, is required to achieve the 'Horizon Goal'"

From: NRC Pathway approach to Mars includes Lunar landings, Chinese alliance  By Chris Bergin
June 4, 2014
At: http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/06/nrc-pathway-approach-mars-lunar-landings-chinese-alliance/


Let's go to the Moon with Russia, South Korea, China, Canada, Pakistan, Europe, Nigeria, Egypt, India, Brazil, Australia, Japan, New Zealand, Moon Express, Golden Spike, and everyone else who wants to go and is willing to seriously contribute to the effort. 

Or we all can stir up a Cold War II and complain about everyone else while ignoring how each of us may have contributed to the mess with our shrewd and shrill arguments and name calling.

Going to the Moon with Russia and everyone else makes pretty good sense, right? Good. Glad that is finally settled.


Edited.
« Last Edit: 06/07/2014 10:51 am by HappyMartian »
"The Moon is the most accessible destination for realizing commercial, exploration and scientific objectives beyond low Earth orbit." - LEAG

Offline Jim

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #189 on: 06/07/2014 07:39 pm »

Going to the Moon with Russia and everyone else makes pretty good sense, right?


Wrong, see RD-180

Offline gospacex

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #190 on: 06/07/2014 08:58 pm »
Let's go to the Moon with Russia, South Korea, China, Canada, Pakistan, Europe, Nigeria, Egypt, India, Brazil, Australia, Japan, New Zealand, Moon Express, Golden Spike, and everyone else who wants to go and is willing to seriously contribute to the effort. 

Or we all can stir up a Cold War II and complain about everyone else while ignoring how each of us may have contributed to the mess with our shrewd and shrill arguments and name calling.

Going to the Moon with Russia and everyone else makes pretty good sense, right? Good. Glad that is finally settled.

European space program is an example how efficient multi-national space program is. ATV costs 1bn apiece, and let me remind you that it (1) can't even return to Earth in one piece and (2) the program is terminated.

Offline fregate

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #191 on: 06/08/2014 02:26 am »
A quite interesting quote from the most recent NRC report "Pathways to Exploration: Rationales and Approaches for a U.S. Program of Human Space Exploration"
Quote
The Russian human spaceflight program is centered entirely around the ISS, with its several
critical modules and its capacity to deliver crews and cargo to the facility. However, building on decades
of space station activity, Russia continues to advance conceptual studies for follow-on programs,
including proposals for human activity beyond LEO.40 In a space policy statement issued by the Russian
Federal Space Agency (Roskosmos) in April 2013, the Russian government noted that “space activities
are one of the primary factors determining the level of development and influence of Russia in the
modern world.”41 Despite this acknowledgement, Russia has struggled to expand its human spaceflight
program beyond the ISS, and robotic missions to the Moon and planets have been almost nonexistent in
the past 20 years. The Russian government has continued to press forward with the development of a
follow-on spacecraft to the Soyuz, known under the generic designation PTK NP, that is comparable in
size and mission to NASA’s Orion.42 The vehicle is expected to carry four cosmonauts on missions
beyond LEO—principally to lunar orbit—lasting about a month.43 The Russians expect to begin flight
testing of the spacecraft with crews in 2018, though this will be a challenging deadline to meet. There are
long-term plans for the exploration of both the Moon and Mars, but, given fiscal realities, these would be
folded into any global initiative involving at the very least the Europeans, a point underscored in the 2013
Russian space policy statement noting that the Russian state interests “support the possibility of full-
scale participation in projects of the international community in the research, mastery and use of space,
including that of the Moon, Mars and other bodies in the solar system.”44
« Last Edit: 06/08/2014 02:27 am by fregate »
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline newpylong

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #192 on: 06/10/2014 04:17 pm »
Let's go to the Moon with Russia, South Korea, China, Canada, Pakistan, Europe, Nigeria, Egypt, India, Brazil, Australia, Japan, New Zealand, Moon Express, Golden Spike, and everyone else who wants to go and is willing to seriously contribute to the effort. 

Or we all can stir up a Cold War II and complain about everyone else while ignoring how each of us may have contributed to the mess with our shrewd and shrill arguments and name calling.

Going to the Moon with Russia and everyone else makes pretty good sense, right? Good. Glad that is finally settled.

European space program is an example how efficient multi-national space program is. ATV costs 1bn apiece, and let me remind you that it (1) can't even return to Earth in one piece and (2) the program is terminated.

$1B a piece? All 5 of them cost $1.2B Euro together. Who cares if they could or couldn't return to earth they brought 8 tons up.
« Last Edit: 06/10/2014 04:18 pm by newpylong »

Offline fregate

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #193 on: 07/26/2014 02:17 pm »
Hi! There is an interesting article about the russian plans to return to the moon:
http://www.space.com/20461-russia-moon-robots-missions.html?cmpid=514648

Anybody interested what had been mentioned in R&D Magistral Tender in 2013 about Lunar Infrastructure?
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline fregate

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #194 on: 10/12/2014 04:29 am »
10th of OCTOBER 2014 Round Table session in ITAR-TASS Press Centre "Solar system's nearest planets exploration by Lunar surface exploration as a premier"
Quote
10 октября 2014 года в пресс-центре ТАСС прошел круглый стол на тему “Изучение ближайших планет Солнечной системы на примере освоения поверхности Луны”.

В мероприятии приняли участие начальник Управления стратегического планирования Роскосмоса Юрия Макаров, директор ИКИ РАН, вице-президент РАН Лев Зеленый, заместитель генерального конструктора ОАО РКК “Энергия” Александр Деречин, первый заместитель генерального конструктора ФГУП “НПО им. С.А. Лавочкина” Максим Мартынов, заместитель генерального директора ФГУП ЦНИИмаш Сергей Крикалев и заместитель генерального директора ГНЦ ФГУП “Центр Келдыша” Владимир Кошлаков.

В рамках дискуссии была обсуждена программа освоения дальнего космоса, ключевым моментом которой станет освоение Луны: изучение, высадка и первые базы на ее поверхности. Как заявил в своем вступительном слове начальник Управления стратегического планирования Роскосмоса Юрий Макаров: “Федеральное космическое агентство разработало программу по освоению дальнего космоса и Луны. Технически мы к этому готовы. И Луна должна стать форпостом, на котором будет базироваться дальнейшая программа полетов к Марсу и другим планетам”. Он также добавил, что одну из ключевых ролей в новой программе будет играть космодром Восточный, строительство которого планируется завершить в 2015 году, а также о необходимости построить ракету-носитель сверхтяжелого класса, способную вывезти в космос более ста тонн полезного груза.

Первый заместитель генерального конструктора “НПО им. С.А. Лавочкина” рассказал о существующих и перспективных автоматических кораблях.

Сергей Крикалев добавил, что освоение Луны и планет Солнечной системы невозможно без подключения пилотируемой космонавтики, которая также переориентируется на долгосрочные полеты.

Александр Деречин рассказал о том, что полеты на Луну – это задача международного уровня, а также о роли России и партнеров в ее решении.

Лев Зеленый в свою очередь рассказал о перспективах международной космонавтики на несколько десятилетий вперед.

Круглый стол послужил заключительным мероприятием, организованным Роскосмосом в рамках Всемирной недели космоса, которая проходила с 4 по 10 октября и была приурочена к годовщине запуска первого в мире искусственного спутника Земли, сообщает пресс-служба Роскосмоса.
The following representatives of [the Russian space industry] participated in the event:
- Yuri Makarov (Roskosmos, Head of Strategic Planning Directorate);
- Lev Zelyoniy (Institute of Space Research IKI, Director; Russian Academy of Science, Vice-president);   
- Alexander Derechin (Rocket & Space Corporation ENERGIA, Chief Designer Deputy);
- Maxim Martinov (NPO Lavochkin, Chief Designer Deputy);
- Sergei Krikalev (FGUP TsNIIMash, General Director Deputy);
- Vladimir Koshlakov (GNTs FGUP Keldish Centre, General Director Deputy).

During event participants discussed a Deep Space Exploration Program
В рамках дискуссии была обсуждена программа освоения дальнего космоса, ключевым моментом которой станет освоение Луны: изучение, высадка и первые базы на ее поверхности. Как заявил в своем вступительном слове начальник Управления стратегического планирования Роскосмоса Юрий Макаров: “Федеральное космическое агентство разработало программу по освоению дальнего космоса и Луны. Технически мы к этому готовы. И Луна должна стать форпостом, на котором будет базироваться дальнейшая программа полетов к Марсу и другим планетам”. He also added that spaceport Vostochny would became one of the key assets in a new Program (upon construction completion in 2015) and there is a strong demand to develop SHLV capable to deliver  more than 100 tones of payload to LEO

Note: Oleg Ostapenko (Head of Russian Federal Space Agency) and Ekaterina Kuvshinkova (Institute of Space Research IKI, Science Fellow) supposed to participate in event (according to press conference announcement) but both of them unfortunately had not been present during press-conference. :)
« Last Edit: 10/12/2014 09:16 am by fregate »
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline fregate

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #195 on: 10/12/2014 05:26 am »
10Th of October 2014 New batch of Lunar soil would be returned to Earth in 2023-2055
Quote
10.10.2014 Новую партию лунного грунта доставят на Землю в 2023-25 годах

Доставка новой партии лунного грунта на Землю планируется в 2023-2025 годах, заявил в пятницу журналистам первый заместитель генерального конструктора НПО им. С.А. Лавочкина Максим Мартынов.

"В программе есть на данный момент четыре миссии: это первая демонстрационная посадочная 2025 года, орбитальный аппарат, который необходим для поддержки всех посадочных миссий, дальше уже полноценная посадочная миссия "Луна-27" и в районе 2023-2025 года проект по доставке на Землю образцов вещества из районов Южного полюса", — сказал Мартынов.

По его словам, планируется доставка грунта в таком же виде, без изменений его температуры и с сохранением всех его веществ, передает РИА Новости.
Delivery of the new batch of Lunar soil is planned for 2020-2025, said to journalists on last Friday Maxim Martynov (NPO Lavochkin Chief Designer First deputy)

"Current [Russian Federal space exploration] program include four [Lunar] missions:
- Demo landing mission in 2025;
- Lunar Orbiter to provide [communication and information] support for all landing missions;
- Luna 27 full-scale landing mission;
- Lunar sample mission return 2023-2025 from Lunar South Pole vicinity." said Martynov.

According to him, lunar soil on return leg to Earth would be kept in a special container that would be capable maintain soil original temperature and preserve sample original properties, informs RIA Novosti   
« Last Edit: 10/13/2014 07:10 pm by fregate »
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline fregate

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #196 on: 10/12/2014 05:29 am »
10th of October 2014 Russia Will Return to the Moon in the end of 2020 decade
Quote
10.10.2014 Россия "вернется" на Луну в конце 2020-х
Россия "возвратится" на Луну в конце следующего десятилетия, сообщил журналистам в пятницу глава Института космических исследований Лев Зеленый.

"Мы разработали ряд лунных миссий. Это проекты "Луна-25, 26, 27, 28" и "Луна-29". Уверен, что к концу следующего десятилетия Россия вновь высадится на спутник Земли", — сказал он.

Район посадки будет выбираться "по очень важным критериям: наличие воды под ногами на глубине 1,5 метров под поверхностью, наличие прямой видимости Земли".

Больше всего таких районов посадки на Южном полюсе Луны, указал Зеленый.

По его словам, до посадки будет осуществлено несколько облетов Луны с помощью автоматических станций, передает РИА Новости.
Russia would return to the Moon till the end of the next decade, said to journalists Lev Zeleniy (Head of Institute of Space Research) on last Friday.

We developed a set of Lunar missions,, that include Luna-25, 26, 27, 28 and Luna-29. "I am sure that Russia would be able to perform landing on Earth's satellite till the end of the next decade", he said

Landing zones would be chosen in order to satisfy important selection criteria such as:
- water presence on depth of 1.5 m under surface;
- direct visibility from Earth.   

The majority of such zones are near South Pole, specified Zeleniy.

According to him, before landing robotic Lunar Orbiter missions would provide information about [selected] landing zones, informs RIA NOVOSTI
« Last Edit: 10/13/2014 06:24 pm by fregate »
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline fregate

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #197 on: 10/12/2014 05:34 am »
10th of October 2014 Russia prepared a Deep Space Exploration Program
Quote
10.10.2014 В России подготовили программу освоения дальнего космоса

Роскосмос подготовил программу освоения дальнего космоса и, прежде всего, Луны, заявил в пятницу журналистам начальник управления стратегического планирования Роскосмоса Юрий Макаров.

"Технологически мы созрели, наша промышленность, в принципе, готова к освоению дальнего космоса и, прежде всего, Луны. Мы подготовили программу "Освоение дальнего космоса", скоро ее представим", — сказал Макаров.

По его словам, это "очень амбициозная программа не только по бюджету, но и по задачам. Ядром программы является Луна".

Как добавил Макаров, в этой программе будет задействован строящийся на Дальнем Востоке космодром "Восточный", а также ракеты-носители тяжелого, а в дальнейшем и сверхтяжелого классов, передает РИА Новости.
[Russian Space Agency] Roskosmos prepared a Deep Space Exploration Program with a Moon as a priority objective according to the announcement  made before journalists by Yuri Makarov (Head of agency Strategic Planning Directorate) on last Friday.
 
"We have a mature technology and our [space] industry is ready for exploration of deep space [BLEO], including  Moon and interplanetary missions. We prepared a Deep Space Exploration program, that would be soon presented to public" - said Makarov

According to him "During this year we prepared a Deep Space Exploration Program in cooperation with Russian Academy of Science (RAN), Kurchatov National [Nuclear Research] Centre and RosATOM.  This is quite ambitious program not just by budget scale but also by set of objectives. The foundation stone of the program is Moon Exploration" 

Makarov noted that the program would be based on Far East spaceport Vostochny (currently under construction) as well as on Launch Vehicle of Heavy class (HLV) and later Launch Vehicle of Super Heavy class (SHLV) - informs RIA Novosti news agency.

« Last Edit: 10/19/2014 01:36 pm by fregate »
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline gbaikie

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #198 on: 10/14/2014 03:55 pm »
MOON DAILY
Russia to take Moon exploration as core of space program
by Staff Writers
Moscow (XNA) Oct 14, 2014

--Russia will take the Moon exploration as a core of its space program for the next decade, Federal Space Agency Roscosmos said Friday.
...
 Roscosmos forecasts the first Russian manned expedition to the Moon could be sent in late 2020s. Once conducted successfully, it would be the first manned mission to the Moon after a break of more than 40 years following the U.S. Apollo program.

Before the manned expedition, three automatic missions, namely Luna-25, -26 and -27, are expected to be fulfilled.--

I take them more seriously, since the are first going to explore with a few robotic missions

Offline fregate

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #199 on: 10/14/2014 10:12 pm »
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I take them more seriously, since the are first going to explore with a few robotic missions
IMHO five robotic missions is slightly more than a few  ;D ; they would be qualified for a PROGRAM  ;)
Plus they have plans for robotic polygon (test site as a pre-cursor for a manned Lunar base).
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

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