Quote from: PlattsWater concentrations at the ppt level within the Moon provides strong evidence that the Moon is still outgassing water, and that such outgassed water is at least a partial source of the ice detected in polar craters. Indeed, it's likely that there is liquid water (and therefore life) within sublunarian aquifers! It is mildly amusing, at best, to read that in the not known to exist "sublunarian aquifers", we are "therefore" "likely" to find life.
Water concentrations at the ppt level within the Moon provides strong evidence that the Moon is still outgassing water, and that such outgassed water is at least a partial source of the ice detected in polar craters. Indeed, it's likely that there is liquid water (and therefore life) within sublunarian aquifers!
Considering the amount of material now known to have been exchanged between the inner planets during the LHB (when life was getting going on this planet) it's not a great stretch to ask whether viable living matter made it to the Moon. Hunting for (primarily chemical) fossils should be a major research goal when humans return to the moon in a serious fashion.
Are you referring to microbes or fumaroles??
How are these features created? Significant volcanism on the Moon largely stopped at least a couple of billion years ago. The Brown team thought that the combination of young age, low maturity and unusual morphology suggested a relatively uncommon pit-forming process. They proposed that the explosive release of volatile substances from the lunar interior would have disrupted the surface, created a chaotic mixture of rock and soil, exposed fresh surfaces (creating the immature spectral signature), and formed a collapse depression caused by the instantaneous removal of mass from below.Now we can see that the new Mercurian hollows have morphologies displaying spectral anomalies similar to the lunar collapse pits such as Ina. The new data suggest that Mercury contains significant volatile substances. These volatiles must be present at some depth, accumulated under high pressure until crustal failure ensues and a massive gas release results in an “eruption.” This explosive event leaves behind a chaotic, disrupted surface (“immature,” with fresh bedrock and deep regolith “newly” exposed to space).
[We present] the results of the analyses of microphotos of lunar regolith particles published earlier, which confirmed that lunar rock contains fossilized remnants of microbial organisms, that most probably had been functioning in hydrothermal springs.
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Quote from: Warren Platts on 07/29/2012 12:07 pm....Warren asks, "Who among you kind and gentle readers believe that the Martian meteorite contains compelling evidence of Martian life?" I answer, "Me!" Warren asks, "Then why do you discount similar evidence of Lunar life?I answer, "I don't discount evidence that Earth microbes might have survived on the Moon!" {snip}
....So, you're saying they probably are microbes, but that the Luna sample return mission just happened to grab a meteorite thrown up from the Earth 4 billion years ago.... Those are long odds. More importantly, if the rock came from Earth, they would be able to tell, just as we can distinguish meteorites that came from regular asteroids and meteors versus those that came from Mars or the Moon. Even if they didn't test for Earth isotopes, the idea that a single random grab from the Moon would actually grab an Earth rock stretches the imagination. Yes, people win the Powerball lottery every other day; yet I never seem to. Have you?More importantly, to deny that it is possible that life could be/have been on the Moon is to deny the presences of liquid water on the Moon. We can quibble about the exact nature of the thermal gradient, but that there are zones where the temperature and pressure regimes favor water in its liquid phase cannot be doubted. Therefore, you must be doubting the claim that there IS enough water within the Moon to fill in cracks in the rocks within the liquid favorable zone. Yet, you, Happy Martian, are the one who keeps repeating and reposting the same links as to how much water there is in the Moon! E.g., the orange soil has recently shown that Moon mantle and Earth mantle have comparable water concentrations. Something has to give. You must give up something. Which is it? EDIT: And what about the organic molecules detected by Chandrayaan? These are also consistent with the Lunar Life hypothesis:Universe Today: "Signs of Life of Life Detected on the Moon?" by Nancy Atkinson
Follow the water is supposed to be the rule in looking for life. I think it is a very good rule. If some forms of life managed to get to the Moon from Ceres, Mars, Earth, or somewhere else, then there is a good chance that if that life was buried deep enough in the Lunar environment where water in some form tends to be available, some of those immigrant forms of life would still be active today. Could life have evolved on the Moon and then caught a ride to Earth? Good question. But you know Warren, not too many people share such beliefs.
Temperature vs depth is very tricky because temperature change slows with depth. You went from one extreme to the other. First you posted 2.7 degrees per km which is probably accurate over 1000 km. Then you went to 2.52 degrees per meter which may be accurate over a meter or two.On the Earth it is 20- 30 degrees Celsius per Km for the first few kilometers but by 200 km it is estimated to be 0.3 degrees.
Although it was not your purpose you are making a great case for ice at depth in lunar cold traps. Even at 2.52 degrees per meter cold traps could be below 273 degrees Kelvin at almost 100 meters.
The simple fact is we need more data.
Yes Warren, I too appreciate "The Emperor's New Clothes" and since 1837 that simple story by Hans Christian Andersen has taught the lesson of how some folks in various leadership positions don't want to appear foolish or think too deeply or ask any questions at all about the obviously nonsensical behavior and illogical proclamations of their Grand Pooh-bah. From such grandiose and easily duped Grand Pooh-bahs we get tragic wars, bankrupt nations, misdirected space programs, and various other types of goofy zig zagging national policies.Now, some pretty serious scientists have repeatedly tried to make the point that the Moon appears to have more than enough water and volatiles to meet our space exploration and in-situ resource utilization needs. Further human field work research to prioritize the tapping of the strategically located Lunar water, volatiles, and other resources would be the logical and commercially smart thing to do, if logic and commerce had anything to do with the vague blind alley asteroid and Mars space policy formulated and articulated by our Grand Pooh-bah.Unfortunately, we space cadets are faced with the little child's task of crying out loudly and repeatedly that the Grand Pooh-bah's space policy's nonexistent clothes are revealing too much of the embarrassing nakedness of a vacuous Solar System exploration architecture which is not based on space commerce, Lunar geology, and the many joys of water where you need it. The water and volatiles that exist both in the Moon and in its polar surface areas will be used by some nation, or group of nations, to make the Moon into the prettiest rocket propellant station imaginable and to make that generous gift even commercially sweeter, Luna has just about the best possible location to efficiently service many local and far voyaging spacecraft. Unfortunately, our current Grand Pooh-bah continues to display his disdain about the commercial prospects of our lovely and resource rich Moon. We Americans routinely install a new Grand Pooh-bah every four or eight years, so hopefully we will eventually get a Grand Pooh-bah that is actually interested in science instead of displaying an ongoing dismal ignorance about what is needed for a functional and commercially robust space exploration architecture.
... so what? Are we looking for life or not? Or is it all about pork ...
Yes Warren, I too appreciate "The Emperor's New Clothes" and since 1837 that simple story by Hans Christian Andersen has taught the lesson of how some folks in various leadership positions don't want to appear foolish or think too deeply or ask any questions at all about the obviously nonsensical behavior and illogical proclamations of their Grand Pooh-bah. From such grandiose and easily duped Grand Pooh-bahs we get tragic wars, bankrupt nations, misdirected space programs, and various other types of goofy zig zagging national policies.Further human field work research to prioritize the tapping of the strategically located Lunar water, volatiles, and other resources would be the logical and commercially smart thing to do, if logic and commerce had anything to do with the vague blind alley asteroid and Mars space policy formulated and articulated by our Grand Pooh-bah.Unfortunately, our current Grand Pooh-bah continues to display his disdain about the commercial prospects of our lovely and resource rich Moon. We Americans routinely install a new Grand Pooh-bah every four or eight years, so hopefully we will eventually get a Grand Pooh-bah that is actually interested in science instead of displaying an ongoing dismal ignorance about what is needed for a functional and commercially robust space exploration architecture.