Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6  (Read 721023 times)

Offline Kansan52

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #460 on: 12/12/2017 05:23 pm »
Could we be seeing three things, forms for pilings, pipes for culverts, and pipes and tanks for sewage?

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #461 on: 12/12/2017 05:37 pm »
Could we be seeing three things, forms for pilings, pipes for culverts, and pipes and tanks for sewage?
Those don't look like sewage tanks. More like supply tanks.
 I'm not sure why the pieces would be showing up now, but the pad deluge system would have to collect the used water since they can't just dump it into the wetlands. I can't think of anything else that would need that size pipe. Not that I know anything that goes into building a spaceport.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline DanielW

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #462 on: 12/12/2017 06:21 pm »
Not that I know anything that goes into building a spaceport.

In that case I hope you are taking detailed notes for your book.

Offline midnightrider3000

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #463 on: 12/12/2017 06:39 pm »
@Nomadd

Thanks for all the pics.

I just have to ask. What's up with the curved wall and barbwire fence?

« Last Edit: 12/12/2017 06:41 pm by midnightrider3000 »

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #464 on: 12/12/2017 07:51 pm »
@Nomadd

Thanks for all the pics.

I just have to ask. What's up with the curved wall and barbwire fence?


Just an artifact of the previous owner. The fence was just to keep the big dogs from eating the little dog.
 It's SpaceX owned now, but the only thing they use it for is to plug in an extension cord to the crane warehouse job.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline midnightrider3000

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #465 on: 12/12/2017 08:46 pm »
@Nomadd


Just an artifact of the previous owner. The fence was just to keep the big dogs from eating the little dog.


Barbwire? Guess the saying is true "Everything is bigger in Texas" including the big dogs.

Thought there was a previous war between you guys. Square holes looked like "Arrowslits" for shooting at your property. LOL

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #466 on: 12/12/2017 10:28 pm »
 Concrete day for what I assume is the pad where the batteries, inverter and all that cool electrical stuff will go.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline IanThePineapple

Ok, I'm trying to get this straight: Is this new solar & battery array for the future pad, Stargate, the control center, or some other building?

Also, what is the unfinished warehouse-like building on the left hand side of the most recent panorama for?

Thanks a ton!

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #468 on: 12/13/2017 02:18 pm »
Ok, I'm trying to get this straight: Is this new solar & battery array for the future pad, Stargate, the control center, or some other building?

Previous info from SpaceX suggests the solar array will be for the launch site area as a whole, including the launch pad area and control center area.

As far as I know, batteries haven't been confirmed.  They may be using a combination of grid power and solar, perhaps with backup generators. Note that the vast majority of rooftop solar installations in the U.S. don't include batteries.

To be clear, they may add some Tesla PowerPacks to stabilize things, but as far as I know, this is not confirmed.

Also, what is the unfinished warehouse-like building on the left hand side of the most recent panorama for?
This structure houses the large crane that was brought in a few months ago.

Edit: Later pictures show this building more completed.
« Last Edit: 12/13/2017 02:26 pm by Dave G »

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #469 on: 12/13/2017 04:16 pm »
 10 minute old picture.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline speedevil

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #470 on: 12/13/2017 04:19 pm »
I assume there are no published power numbers for any of the existing pads?
I guess the largest loads might be propellant chilling, and deluge pumps, if they do not use gravity towers.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #471 on: 12/13/2017 05:20 pm »
I assume there are no published power numbers for any of the existing pads?
I guess the largest loads might be propellant chilling, and deluge pumps, if they do not use gravity towers.
According to Jim, the vehicle and payload processing buildings tend to work with the doors open and AC going full blast, and are the largest power consumers, but he might not be familiar with propellant chilling requirements.
 This solar farm seems excessive for just a tracking station and warehouse. It could also be for the STARGATE facility. The final plan for solar is about ten times what they're doing now. Maybe more if they start doing BFR instead of Falcon.
 I assume batteries because solar without them wouldn't do much good. You'd still need to bring in 100% of your power needs from public utilities or be willing to run off of generators for days at a time.
 Battery cost estimates are usually nonsense in the media. They love to use the old retail $400-$500 a kwh prices someone put out years back. But if the gigafactory has extra capacity because of the Model 3 delays, they could probably get batteries by moving about $140 per kwh between companies. (However Tesla and SpaceX handle that)
 I don't really know how they figure batteries, but I'd guess at least 5 mwh for this array.
« Last Edit: 12/13/2017 05:24 pm by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline meberbs

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #472 on: 12/13/2017 05:56 pm »
But if the gigafactory has extra capacity because of the Model 3 delays, they could probably get batteries by moving about $140 per kwh between companies. (However Tesla and SpaceX handle that)
I remember seeing something about ramping battery production at the gigafactory being a contributing factor to Model 3 delays. Also, capacity is probably not fully interchangeable between batteries with different end uses (and therefore different packaging.)

Musk has claimed on twitter a price of $250/kWh for large installations (not counting shipping, installation, and tax), and with him owning SpaceX and Tesla being a public company, he could probably get in trouble if he had Tesla sell to SpaceX at an "in-house" type of discount.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #473 on: 12/13/2017 06:10 pm »
But if the gigafactory has extra capacity because of the Model 3 delays, they could probably get batteries by moving about $140 per kwh between companies.

Here's an interesting tidbit.

Today, you can buy 18650 cells for around $90 / kWh on amazon.com:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017YLD83S?m=A2MQH67N57UZ7V

These are advertised as 5300 mAh, but such claims are wildly exaggerated. A typical 18650 cell is only around 2600 mAh, or 2.6 Ah. At 3.7 volts, that’s 9.62 Wh for each cell, or 96.2 Wh for the ten pack. So $8.47 / 96.2 Wh = 8.8 cents/Wh, or $88 per kWh.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #474 on: 12/13/2017 06:21 pm »
According to Jim, the vehicle and payload processing buildings tend to work with the doors open and AC going full blast, and are the largest power consumers, but he might not be familiar with propellant chilling requirements.

Yes, I remember this as well.  For the 2 Payload Processing Facility buildings within the Control Center Area, in order to maintain clean room conditions, cool air isn't recycled.  Instead, the bring in outside air, filter it, cool it, and then exhaust that air back outside without recycling it through the HVAC system.

This uses gobs of electricity.

Offline kenny008

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #475 on: 12/13/2017 07:12 pm »
Hmmm.  This seems backwards to me.  Wouldn't it make more sense to re-use the already-filtered air?  Seems much easier to maintain clean-room conditions by recirculating and cooling already "clean" air, than to take "dirty" outside air and start all over again.  Plus, it would use much less power.

I'm sure there's a good reason, but I don't quite get it.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #476 on: 12/13/2017 07:26 pm »
Hmmm.  This seems backwards to me.  Wouldn't it make more sense to re-use the already-filtered air?  Seems much easier to maintain clean-room conditions by recirculating and cooling already "clean" air, than to take "dirty" outside air and start all over again.  Plus, it would use much less power.

I'm sure there's a good reason, but I don't quite get it.

I think it also has to do with potential leaks of hazardous materials.

Since vapors can't be filtered, I guess they consider filtered air from the outside to be the cleanest.

But this is all second-hand info.  I'm not an expert in this area.

Offline kenny008

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #477 on: 12/13/2017 07:28 pm »
Got it, thanks.  I also remember Jim mentioning HVAC as the largest electrical load (can't find the post).  Anything that can lower power requirements can only help the situation in a relatively undeveloped piece of launch property.

Offline hplan

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #478 on: 12/13/2017 07:50 pm »
But if the gigafactory has extra capacity because of the Model 3 delays, they could probably get batteries by moving about $140 per kwh between companies.

Here's an interesting tidbit.

Today, you can buy 18650 cells for around $90 / kWh on amazon.com:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017YLD83S?m=A2MQH67N57UZ7V

These are advertised as 5300 mAh, but such claims are wildly exaggerated. A typical 18650 cell is only around 2600 mAh, or 2.6 Ah. At 3.7 volts, that’s 9.62 Wh for each cell, or 96.2 Wh for the ten pack. So $8.47 / 96.2 Wh = 8.8 cents/Wh, or $88 per kWh.

Such "deals" are usually used cells recovered from defunct laptops or some such. Top quality cells are more expensive at retail.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #479 on: 12/14/2017 12:26 am »
But if the gigafactory has extra capacity because of the Model 3 delays, they could probably get batteries by moving about $140 per kwh between companies.

Here's an interesting tidbit.

Today, you can buy 18650 cells for around $90 / kWh on amazon.com:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017YLD83S?m=A2MQH67N57UZ7V

These are advertised as 5300 mAh, but such claims are wildly exaggerated. A typical 18650 cell is only around 2600 mAh, or 2.6 Ah. At 3.7 volts, that’s 9.62 Wh for each cell, or 96.2 Wh for the ten pack. So $8.47 / 96.2 Wh = 8.8 cents/Wh, or $88 per kWh.

Such "deals" are usually used cells recovered from defunct laptops or some such. Top quality cells are more expensive at retail.

Amazon says they're new.  They sure look new.

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