Author Topic: The Orville premiere on Fox  (Read 6187 times)

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6954
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 608
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #20 on: 09/16/2017 07:56 AM »
At the risk of thread derailment, the SFX of Babylon 5 has aged a lot better than the pre-digital effects of the Trek original series. The original Trek often set the standard for cheesy acting. No-one cares; why? Because people appreciate the writing, which was quite often at the pinnacle of 1950s and 1960s sci-fi concepts and quality. For that reason, I think that Babylon 5 should also be judged by its story and its concepts as well as its execution. In that it has aged well and, given its influence on the Stargate and Battlestar Galactica franchises, it is worth a great deal of respect.
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline Tomness

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 122
  • Into the abyss will I run
  • Liked: 24
  • Likes Given: 117
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #21 on: 09/16/2017 03:44 PM »
I liked it.... Hope they do well...

Online Thorny

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 634
  • San Angelo, Texas
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 75
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #22 on: 09/16/2017 04:01 PM »
At the risk of thread derailment, the SFX of Babylon 5 has aged a lot better than the pre-digital effects of the Trek original series.

I have loaned my "Babylon 5" DVDs to younger co-workers (born late 90s or so), and they just won't watch it. They given them back laughing about how bad the effects are, saying it "looks like bad Nintendo" and "what, did they spend $1.99 on the special effects?". I tell them it isn't the effects that are important, it is the writing. No sale.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6954
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 608
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #23 on: 09/16/2017 04:05 PM »
Don't blame the show. Blame the modern entertainment industry that (thanks to morons like Michael Bay) have made 'blow stuff up along with headache-inducing fast motion' as the standard by which sci-fi is judged.
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline su27k

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 639
  • Liked: 387
  • Likes Given: 38
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #24 on: 09/17/2017 03:42 AM »
I have loaned my "Babylon 5" DVDs to younger co-workers (born late 90s or so), and they just won't watch it. They given them back laughing about how bad the effects are, saying it "looks like bad Nintendo" and "what, did they spend $1.99 on the special effects?". I tell them it isn't the effects that are important, it is the writing. No sale.

Did they start from season 1? The SFX got a lot better starting from season 2.

Back to Orville: It's actually not that bad, I'll give it a chance. I wish the humor and serious part are better integrated, like SG-1, right now it's pretty jarring when switching from one to the other.

Online Thorny

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 634
  • San Angelo, Texas
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 75
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #25 on: 09/17/2017 02:36 PM »
Did they start from season 1? The SFX got a lot better starting from season 2.

I gave them the "Movies" set and told them to watch "The Gathering" and then Season 1.

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9066
  • Liked: 1113
  • Likes Given: 755
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #26 on: 09/23/2017 02:19 AM »
I liked it a lot. It's funny and interesting at the same time. That's hard to do. The special effects are pretty good too.
« Last Edit: 09/23/2017 02:22 AM by yg1968 »

Offline KelvinZero

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3464
  • Liked: 453
  • Likes Given: 113
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #27 on: 09/24/2017 09:25 AM »
Now that I know what to expect, it is ok. Still would have been a lot better if it were actually Star Trek. The intentional similarity keeps reminding me it is actors on a set in a way that actually startrek or something completely different would not.

BTW*, Im watching a scifi spoof show called "people of earth". Nothing to do with space travel, it is alien abduction territory so not really relevant to this site but I was surprised to like it. The loser characters are strangely likeable. I have missed this connection to the characters from all the recent scifi series I have watched, including Orville.

Im always trying to figure out how to make a hardSF series work. Something character based like this could be a clue.. or possibly "Parks and recreation" in space? I have always wanted to see a hardSF where the scriptwriter remembered that the first requirement is that you care about the characters. Extending this to a hardSF procedural is even harder. Also I would like an alternative to grim hardSF.

(* that is to say, "rampantly off topic ramble")
« Last Edit: 09/24/2017 09:30 AM by KelvinZero »

Offline HVM

  • Member
  • Posts: 87
  • Finland
  • Liked: 84
  • Likes Given: 70
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #28 on: 09/24/2017 09:56 AM »
It's have clichés and looks ripped from Trek but isn't parody. 'Humor' is same level as in other MacFarlane shows. e.g. don't work at all; stories are weak or even borrowed from Trek... I don't know how show like this can survive when other sci-fi is level of Westworld and The Expanse.

Offline spacenut

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2117
  • East Alabama
  • Liked: 297
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #29 on: 09/26/2017 02:46 AM »
Just watched The Orville, I think the only three episodes.  I like it better than Star Trek Discovery.  Discovery is too dark.   It immediately starts off with a war with the Klingons.  I thought Discovery was about Discovery of new planets and things.
 The Orville is an action comedy that is refreshing.  Kind of like the episodes of Enterprise with Dr. Phlox. 

Offline su27k

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 639
  • Liked: 387
  • Likes Given: 38
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #30 on: 09/26/2017 04:15 AM »
Did they start from season 1? The SFX got a lot better starting from season 2.

I gave them the "Movies" set and told them to watch "The Gathering" and then Season 1.

When I rewatch the series I usually starts with Season 2, since the SFX in season 1 is truly awful. And you start with Sheridan who I believe is the soul of B5.

Online MATTBLAK

  • Elite Veteran & 'J.A.F.A'
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3732
  • 'Space Cadets' Let us; UNITE!! (crickets chirping)
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 701
  • Likes Given: 1322
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #31 on: 09/26/2017 05:47 AM »
I've watched the first two episodes of Discovery and the first few of The Orville. In my experienced opinion (seen all 700-odd Trek episodes and all movies and read dozens of Trek novels) - at this stage; they are both showing more promise than the first Seasons of all the Star trek shows; except the original!!

The Orville has a hard road to hoe - because it is part parody and part tribute to Star Trek. If it were more of a comedy or more of a drama, maybe it would work better... I'm unsure. But since it is finding it's way I would at this stage describe it as slightly weak rather than awful (it isn't) then it may have room for improvement. Even 'Babylon 5' - my favourite 'Space Opera' show ever - was not deemed to be a classic until I think the intrigue of it's main story was well underway by mid-season 2 or thereabouts.

In this day and age of instant gratification - real or perceived - we just don't seem to have the patience to let a TV show find it's feet or grow an audience. I know network executives and now 'the customer' (us) demand an instant classic, must-see, or binge-watching nirvana. But we're rarely going to get that anymore and I for one will watch a show I'm interested in and if it fails to hold my interest by about mid-season; then I'll reassess my viewing priorities. I know life is too short to watch bad TV, movies or music. Demand high standards, by all means.

When I watch Star Trek, I always have high hopes if not high-expectations. I'm seasoned and cynical enough not to have a rose-tinted view of my favourite(ish) set of TV shows ever. My favourite Trek show was Deep Space Nine because of it's huge, ambitious story-telling arc that had noble but nonetheless flawed and complex characters. And it had a dash of comedy, too at times. I don't think it was the best 'Trek show' - but I think it often rivaled the best 'Next Generation' episodes for being the best television of it's era.

...Which brings me to 'Discovery'. First of all - it aint your Grandpa's Trek!! The first couple episodes make this abundantly clear. I mentioned a 'rose tinted' glasses view a couple paragraphs ago. The Original Series, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise were products of their time. Nobody is doing, or deliberately should make a modern space opera show, exactly the way they did in 1987, 1993, the late 1990s or the early 2000s. No one! I fully realized this when I saw the JJ Abrams Star Trek reboot films from 2009 onwards - those films I both like and dislike in roughly equal measure. That's because - I swear to you - I endeavour bloody hard not to be an old-school, rose-tinted, nostalgia wussy 'fanboy'. We have modern special effects, modern censorship standards, 'modern acting', writing and direction, for better or worse. Modern cameras and cinematography techniques...

'Discovery' will have to play out it's agenda and character development with great thought and care. As I said - it is not an old TV show; it is a new one. That doesn't mean though that it cannot have the 'spirit of Star Trek' running through it's veins. Good writing and 'good heart' can bring that online, in time. I for one wont damn it because it doesn't have Shatner, Stewart or Michael Dorn in it. Although it would be really good to see those characters one more time - I don't live for it. If the reboot franchise falls over; and they bring back the T.N.G. timeframe and universe movies with Captain Riker or Worf - I'd be delighted. There's no reason it couldn't be at least good, if not great. But as I said - I don't hold my breath for it. It is almost all in the writing. Science fiction TV and films will fail if the power and logic and heart of the story doesn't work. But Trek, along with other famous space operas, will only survive in the long run if it evolves and grows - not puts out pale, repetitive carbon copies of itself.

Apart from my slight confusion about the current remolding of the Klingon race in 'Discovery' - I think I see a real glimmer of hope that something could really grow up out of this show - despite my reservations about it being a slightly unnecessary prequel. TNG, DS9 and Voyager took until their third seasons to find their way and become decent television shows. I don't think 'Discovery' will need that long...
"Those who can't, Blog".   'Space Cadets' of the World - Let us UNITE!! (crickets chirping)

Offline WindnWar

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • South Carolina
  • Liked: 213
  • Likes Given: 1144
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #32 on: 09/28/2017 03:20 AM »
Having watched both series over the last couple days, I honestly have more hope for Orville than Discovery other than the fact it is on Fox and the cancellation bear runs rampant there. Even with the occasional bad humor. Episode three was surprising as it reminded me more of Trek than anything of recent Trek. Hoping it sticks around.

Discovery to me reminds me of Stargate Universe, taking a genre that while having plenty of serious moments also had its light hearted bits and instead just going as dark as possible. I'll keep watching to see where it goes but if it doesn't recapture some of what made Trek great by the end of the first season I won't bother continuing with it. 

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6954
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 608
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #33 on: 09/28/2017 09:40 AM »
I'm getting the impression that the negative critical reviews are due to a degree of genre confusion, much of the blame for which can be laid on the unknown team at Fox who created the show's trailers. We were asked to expect 'Family Guy in Space'. What we didn't expect was something close to the atmosphere of the original Star Trek with the humour turned up a couple of steps. If anything, it reminds me of the problems suffered by Futurama, a show that would have probably done a lot better if it was not crushed under the burden of being from the same team as The Simpsons.

Viewers, on the other hand, seem to have adapted quickly and their response has been overwhelmingly positive. One review on YouTube was headlined: "So, we have a new Star Trek... and it isn't called 'Star Trek'".

The question that now needs to be answered is: Will The Orville develop a viewer base large enough to survive in the cut-throat world of network television or, like Firefly, will it be a one season or less flash in the pan, fondly remembered by its' partisans but always to be mostly a 'what if...?'
« Last Edit: 09/28/2017 09:43 AM by Ben the Space Brit »
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8091
  • Australia
  • Liked: 2860
  • Likes Given: 684
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #34 on: 09/28/2017 10:32 AM »
Yeah, I just watched the first episode and don't know what the critics are talking about. It had a nice Galaxy Quest vibe.
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Offline mheney

  • The Next Man on the Moon
  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
  • Silver Spring, MD
  • Liked: 338
  • Likes Given: 190
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #35 on: 09/28/2017 04:03 PM »
Now that I know what to expect, it is ok. Still would have been a lot better if it were actually Star Trek. The intentional similarity keeps reminding me it is actors on a set in a way that actually startrek or something completely different would not.

BTW*, Im watching a scifi spoof show called "people of earth". Nothing to do with space travel, it is alien abduction territory so not really relevant to this site but I was surprised to like it. The loser characters are strangely likeable. I have missed this connection to the characters from all the recent scifi series I have watched, including Orville.

Im always trying to figure out how to make a hardSF series work. Something character based like this could be a clue.. or possibly "Parks and recreation" in space? I have always wanted to see a hardSF where the scriptwriter remembered that the first requirement is that you care about the characters. Extending this to a hardSF procedural is even harder. Also I would like an alternative to grim hardSF.

(* that is to say, "rampantly off topic ramble")

Yes to People of Earth, on TBS!!!   Season 2 just finished.   And I'm liking The Orville so far; iffy on Discovery.

Online Ronpur50

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1900
  • Brandon, FL
  • Liked: 706
  • Likes Given: 1462
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #36 on: 09/29/2017 07:39 PM »
I really enjoyed this weeks episode.  The generational ship premise may have been done before, but this was very well presented.  And I love the cast and their interactions.  It is really exciting me. 

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10824
  • Liked: 2335
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #37 on: 09/29/2017 09:36 PM »
I really dislike Seth McFarlane, and do we really need dick jokes multiple times in every episode? That said, this article makes some good points.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/09/29/seth-macfarlanes-the-orville-is-the-star-trek-show-fans-have-been-waiting-for/#564e92da6da8

"By not having a budget (or requirements) for wall-to-wall spectacle, the hour-long Fox show is forced to focus on character, chemistry, sci-fi plotting and moral debates that have partially defined Gene Roddenberry’s property for generations. Yes, to a certain extent it’s fan fiction, but then so is so much of our current pop culture entertainment. But by being a network television show, it is forced to be the kind of Star Trek that fans claim the recent movies have neglected in favor of four-quadrant blockbuster thrills. The Orville is not a spoof, but rather a straight-faced Trek show with characters who are funny and can laugh at funny events."


Offline KelvinZero

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3464
  • Liked: 453
  • Likes Given: 113
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #38 on: 09/29/2017 11:23 PM »
I was thinking about the fan aspect. I know there was some big hoo-ha about some clash between the startrek owners and some fan fic film.

I think it would have been an interesting strategy to negotiate some sort of program like this as a compromise. It is recognised as just fan-fic, giving it more freedom, but can freely borrow whatever they like and the franchise still gets their cut.. also could keep cramming fan cgi in the background

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3720
  • Liked: 459
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #39 on: 09/30/2017 04:20 AM »
Just got caught up on watching the rest of The Orville, and the latest episode 4 was particularly interesting -- a visit to Cypress Corners on Earthship Ark, a la Starlost! I noticed the episode also featured actor James Morrison, who played ace pilot Col. McQueen on Space: Above & Beyond. Also, the recording of Dural seemed eerily like actor Liam Neeson - was it?

The style of the series seems a little unconventional relative to what's come before, in that it's mixing deadpan humor with space sci-fi adventure that's sometimes seriously attempting to be thought-provoking in its own right, like Star Trek, etc before it. I guess Seth has yearnings in both directions. In a way, the interjections of juvenile humor help to disarm potential woodenness, pomposity and preachiness. But at least they stop short of breaking the 4th Wall, like Deadpool.

Watching Elon Musk's latest talk at IAC the other day, I noticed that there's a bit of a physical resemblance between himself and Seth MacFarlane. I bet Seth could play an Elon-style character half decently, if he tried it.
« Last Edit: 09/30/2017 06:06 AM by sanman »

Tags: