Author Topic: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections  (Read 5296 times)

Offline RedTail48

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Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« on: 08/03/2017 11:34 PM »
Hi All,

Firstly I'd like to emphasize that although these collections are titled with my name, this is for convenience of recognition, NOT to claim "ownership." They are the result of many people's efforts to preserve this information. I do claim to have consolidated photos and other information from those many sources.

In particular I'd like to recognize, for the Atlas Archive, the efforts of Bob Bradley and Dick Martin (RIP) of San Diego. Bob sorted through the immense numbers of negatives and positives from the old Convair/GD archives to select the images I scanned and processed. Dick hosted me whilst staying there and patiently input data into my database of Atlas flights, and supplied numerous schematics from his personal Library collected in his position as Honorary Atlas Historian.

Some of the sources for these materials preferred not to be acknowledged. I thank them for their willingness to share and shall honour their requests.

For all of the collections, Joel Powell and Art LeBrun (RIP) coordinated efforts to positively identify certain photos from various confusing situations arising from loss of photo archive catalogues, inaccurately captioned photos etc and supplied missing items from their own collections.

We all owe Jonathan McDowell a huge debt for his massive continuing on-line database which has been the basis of flight listing details. I must mention here that Flight Listing Reports and Photo Captions have become dated due to the declassification of several programs. I won't attempt to update the photo captions, but I will aim to update the Flight Listings and repost them. In the meantime I trust the other data in them will be useful.

I thank the various Publications who granted permission for their Articles to be reproduced.

We have all benefited from the quiet efforts of various people over the years who have evaded efforts to "clean out all that old stuff" as requested by new-broom management. Sadly, in following various leads, I met the reply "Yes, we had lots of that sort of stuff, but we had to get rid of it last year."

I would like to thank those folks who opened their doors to an enthusiast from far-off who talked a bit funny on the phone, but seemed to be worth supporting!

You will note my collecting, as far as Atlas and Delta goes, ceased with my retirement a few years ago. But I'm sure you'll be able to fill the following years without too much effort.

Now to business: Below are the links to my DropBox with the following content: Atlas 50th DVD, Thor-Delta DVD, Titan (images only) . Please advise soonest if they work ok!

I have not uploaded the full size 8x10 600dpi TIF image files. I can upload individual ones on request. If anyone wants a complete set I'll mail a small USB stick on condition they find a safe and permanent way of publicly archiving them.

Atlas: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/aposvnvjuig0nv4/AADfIEORE7KylmxKhzfYajuda?dl=0

Thor-Delta: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/oabua86jr8stbxc/AABTDKpU8PBHQhfahUgZvOUBa?dl=0

Titan: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ydq2w2o6yas3nqs/AAA4Zl5v1hfOlG3_lwgr1RWIa?dl=0

Happy Browsing!

Peter.
« Last Edit: 08/05/2017 10:53 AM by Chris Bergin »

Offline RedTail48

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #1 on: 08/04/2017 08:35 AM »
You might find the DropBox linked video of "Missile Malfunctions" of interest. I compiled it from bits of projected 16mm film I came across in my travels, copied with a video camera on a tripod, so the quality is so-so.

Let me know if this sort of thing is of interest, and with some work, I possibly could post some more material of this kind.

Peter.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9728hmtdcsf1ho4/AADDn7GgLCM9cmzBBr3_7Roma?dl=0


Offline WallE

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #2 on: 08/04/2017 12:00 PM »
We all owe Jonathan McDowell a huge debt for his massive continuing on-line database which has been the basis of flight listing details. I must mention here that Flight Listing Reports and Photo Captions have become dated due to the declassification of several programs. I won't attempt to update the photo captions, but I will aim to update the Flight Listings and repost them. In the meantime I trust the other data in them will be useful

I can give you a couple corrections for the Atlas flight list. 3B and 139D/Midas 8 were not RSO destructs. 91D failed due to vibration in the adapter area, not Able ignition. 68D suffered from a LOX leak that led to a booster shutdown and thrust section explosion (shades of Atlas 3D). It still flew for almost two more minutes before self-destructing. 32E was destructed at 35 seconds into flight, not 50.

The unidentified Atlases in the failure video are 23D and 45F. There is also a nice video on Youtube also showing several VAFB failures including 102D which also did a cartwheel but in that case self-destructed (why the RSO didn't blow it up like with 23D I have no idea) and 64E. There's also Titan II N-7 and some Minuteman launch.
« Last Edit: 08/04/2017 03:42 PM by WallE »

Offline gwiz

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #3 on: 08/04/2017 01:33 PM »
Thanks, Peter, I've copied the Titan photos and updated my Atlas DVD.  Looks like my Thor DVD was up to date.

Geoff

Offline Jim

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #4 on: 08/04/2017 01:37 PM »
91D failed due to vibration in the adapter area, not Able ignition.


No, don't go changing history according to your reality. 

Offline Jim

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #5 on: 08/04/2017 01:37 PM »
Thanks, Peter, I've copied the Titan photos and updated my Atlas DVD.  Looks like my Thor DVD was up to date.

Geoff

What was different in the Atlas DVD?

Offline jg

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #6 on: 08/04/2017 02:06 PM »
One good place for long term archiving of large amounts of historically interesting content for public consumption is the Internet Archive: www.archive.org.

And large as the collection is, it's a drop in the water of the Internet archive.

Using the Internet Archive save Chris large amounts of fees for hosting and hassles with yet more disk, and their reason for existence is long term archiving of digital content.

https://archive.org/about/

And Brewster Kahle is a great guy, anyway....

It's conceivable that they might take a USB stick by mail and put it on line: worth asking.

Offline gwiz

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #7 on: 08/04/2017 03:57 PM »
What was different in the Atlas DVD?
My copy was dated 2001, the new material goes to 2006, so extra launch photos and tables extended.
« Last Edit: 08/04/2017 03:57 PM by gwiz »

Offline WallE

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #8 on: 08/04/2017 04:44 PM »
This was from the Space Systems Division December 1960 activities review. It states that the recovered Able 5B had no signs of engine ignition. What's interesting here is that they also state that the Atlas-Able combination's aerodynamic profile was sound, or at least they believed it was anyway. I think it's pretty universally agreed that Able was an inappropriate upper stage and too small for the Atlas.

Offline Jim Davis

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #9 on: 08/04/2017 05:45 PM »
I think it's pretty universally agreed that Able was an inappropriate upper stage and too small for the Atlas.

I think it could have been made to work. The OV1 stages were even smaller.

Offline Jim

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #10 on: 08/04/2017 06:37 PM »

I think it could have been made to work. The OV1 stages were even smaller.

Not a place for this discussion but no.  Has nothing to do with size, it is the form and mission.

Offline RedTail48

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #11 on: 08/04/2017 10:20 PM »
Re gaps in the collection:

No one source was comprehensive. The collection is a jigsaw of stuff from many sources - even the fabled San Diego archive, as per comments in the Atlas documentation, only provided "200+" of the final photos, compared with "300+" from other sources. I met frustration for various reasons. One example is at Rocketdyne, where I imagined copies of images would have been distributed, along with many of the other contractors. After an initial meet with a Public Relations person in northern LA, where I was passed a couple of glossy brochures, and told "I hope that helps you," I was promised it would be looked into more deeply. An earthquake (which busted one of the LA freeways) then intruded. There were concerns that one of the buildings was unsound, and I was told to "call back later." Subsequent enquiries were answered in various ways - "No we don't have anything else," "Yes we do but I'm not sure where," "Yes but they were moved inland to storage in another state, "No they were all destroyed..." Remember I was limited by time available in LA (1 useful day usually, given the need for post- and pre- flight rest!). This could maybe be still followed up by someone in the LA area. Another source I was unable to try was the then Aerojet business (for Titan) inland from San Francisco which my Company were not at that stage flying to, and anyway it would have been too far to repeatedly drive inland to even if they had material and allowed access to it. Scanning at quality is a time-consuming business....

Often the same photos of various qualities reappeared, so I've tried to pick just the best. I appreciate the value of multiple views, so you will see combined images where that was possible. I entered all images of whatever quality as a separate table in my database, so was able to produce reports linking that table to all the others. This allowed me to produce reports such as "List all images for particular payloads (to pick the best)," "List all images for particular Pads chronologically (for cross-checking pad features)," etc etc.

Re failure reasons: Originally I gave Dick Martin a long printout of all Atlas launches. He hand annotated it with comments including those for failures, from archival material he held at his home. I too came across contradictory information. He could offer no explanantion for this. I'm happy to see if I can fit > 1 reason in the comments, and thanks for the info, WallE !!

Offline RedTail48

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #12 on: 08/04/2017 10:28 PM »
Following on from my previous post, If there is a particular launch you want images of, drop me a private message. I can look up ALL images I have of that and maybe forward more of that one via DropBox, even if they are of lesser quality...

Offline RedTail48

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #13 on: 08/04/2017 10:41 PM »
Re "Atlas 50th" differences from the first Edition:

This was an updated version for the large celebration held in San Diego for the 50th anniversary of the first Atlas flight (which luckily I was able to attend by suitable arrangement of my work roster!).

As far as I remember the only differences were to add launch photos and flight details to bring it up to date at that point.

Offline RedTail48

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #14 on: 08/04/2017 10:48 PM »
I feel also I'd like to reinclude in this thread a comment I made in the other, for folks who will only read this thread, relating to the Titan photo collection:

"I would like to emphasize here the Titan photo collection is very much a combined effort: Art LeBrun (deceased), John Hilliard, Michael Nagel, and Joel Powell all contributed significantly. If you would be so kind, please give any Titan credits as : "via LeBrun,Hilliard,Hunter,Nagel,Powell.""

Dwayne Day also continues to write facinating articles illuminating various payloads launched on these vehicles, and in due course the Flight Listings will be updated with his information....

Offline WallE

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #15 on: 08/05/2017 08:38 AM »
Re failure reasons: Originally I gave Dick Martin a long printout of all Atlas launches. He hand annotated it with comments including those for failures, from archival material he held at his home. I too came across contradictory information. He could offer no explanation for this.

During the course of a failure investigation, several possibilities were often considered before the culprit was found, and sometimes (like with Mercury-Atlas 3), the exact component malfunction was never determined. Other times the flight data was limited due to weather conditions (Mercury-Atlas 1) or inadequate telemetry (Titan 34D-7).

I don't know why Atlas 3B and 139D were listed as RSO, probably someone who saw film of the launches and thought they were RSO destructs without actually reading any flight reports for them.
« Last Edit: 08/05/2017 10:45 AM by WallE »

Offline Lar

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #16 on: 08/05/2017 02:00 PM »
Title now fixed on all posts I think.

Unrelatedly. it's awesome that this collection has been shared and I second the suggestion to go to the internet archive to see if they will host....
« Last Edit: 08/06/2017 04:42 AM by Lar »
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Offline WallE

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #17 on: 08/06/2017 09:57 AM »
In regards to Titan launches, there were seven failures during operational Titan II launches between 1965-67. The details on them are unclear, some may have been RV malfunctions. Lists of Air Force serial numbers state that B-58 (9/21/65) and B-73 (12/22/65) "failed in launch", suggesting a problem with the main vehicle. Three launches (in 1967, 1971, and 1974) are also described as having been "aborted".

Offline WallE

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #18 on: 08/06/2017 04:47 PM »
The details for all were clearly described in Stumpf's book.
https://www.amazon.com/Titan-II-History-Missile-Program/dp/1557286019

Astronautix for some reason lists the launches in question as successful, but that site is extremely sloppy and often has outdated/missing information. I need to get a copy of that book, but you can read some of it on Google Books. It did reveal that Titan II B-54 suffered a first stage engine shutdown due to loss of pump lubrication. This seems very similar to Titan 34D-7, doesn't it? So maybe it wasn't insulation falling off the SRBs at all (after all, Titan ICBMs didn't have SRBs).

It does seem (as Peter said) that there aren't so many Titan images around. For example, have you ever seen a picture of the burned-out pad after B-5 and C-3? I haven't.
« Last Edit: 08/06/2017 05:12 PM by WallE »

Offline WallE

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Re: Original Peter Hunter Photo Collections
« Reply #19 on: 08/07/2017 04:37 PM »
Atlas 5503A/Canyon 4 is still a bit of a mystery. The list describes an Atlas sustainer gas generator malfunction but other sources claim a guidance problem. In any case, it was an RSO destruct and it delayed an Intelsat launch two weeks until the Air Force mishap review board could release their findings and clear the Atlas-Centaur of guilt by association. The failure happened behind cloud cover, so there is no video of it and the photo database had no pictures of the vehicle, although there is video of the launch on Youtube (which clearly shows the gray, rainy weather conditions).

Regardless of whichever was the failure cause, it would not have affected Atlas-Centaur since the SLV-3A used a different model of sustainer engine and the standard GE radio ground guidance instead of the Centaur's inertial guidance. After the slight delay, AC-26 successfully orbited Intelsat 4 F3 on 12/20/71.

I'm more inclined to think it probably wasn't a guidance problem because the booster was destroyed early in flight and I don't think any discreet steering commands would be issued that early (although we don't have an exact sequence of events or know at what time the RSO destruct occurred). If the sustainer shut down, then it likely would go off-course (cf. Atlas 32E). A broken piece of plumbing or an obstruction somewhere could cause a gas generator malfunction, although whatever went wrong must not have been within the opening seconds of flight since the Youtube video shows an apparently normal engine start and liftoff.
« Last Edit: 08/08/2017 04:23 PM by WallE »

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