Author Topic: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread  (Read 108571 times)

Offline TomH

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: 07/23/2017 07:07 AM »
What's the capacity and capability of an Airbus Beluga - in context of the speculative 9 meter ITS? I guess we don't know the final length of the stage yet. Perhaps Elon could lease or even buy one - using it or a similar aircraft to transport the stage to the launch site.

Beluga is 7.1m while Being Dreamlifter is 8.38m. The new Beluga XL is to be 8.8, but I believe that's external, not internal max cargo. I think length may be as big of a constraint.

The only viable option I see is the land route shown above and then a barge. I agree with Robotbeat that Space X could pay for permanent changes such as power line lifts, traffic lights on hinges, etc. Several could move in procession at night.

I also wonder if this could fit in Pegasus. If so, what would it take for NASA to lease the barge to them? That seems like a win-win to me. SX gets transportation and NASA gets a little ROI.

(Jim, I will save you the effort. I know you think it will never happen as you said so elsewhere. Maybe it could, maybe it won't, but you cannot predict the future with absolute certainty. If you want to elaborate politely your reason for why you believe it won't happen, fine. But just saying No and Wrong to people, however, does not add to constructive conversation. So if you choose to reply, please be courteous.)
« Last Edit: 07/23/2017 07:30 AM by TomH »

Offline MP99

Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: 07/23/2017 07:53 AM »
Sooo will this finally be a Falcon X/XX? ;)
It's 9m, and BFR stands for "Big Falcon Rocket" (at least in the safe version), so that would make it a Falcon 9... oh, no, wait. :-)

Cheers, Martin

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Online Peter.Colin

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #42 on: 07/23/2017 08:13 AM »
Sooo will this finally be a Falcon X/XX? ;)
It's 9m, and BFR stands for "Big Falcon Rocket" (at least in the safe version), so that would make it a Falcon 9... oh, no, wait. :-)

Cheers, Martin

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

The mini BFR could also be called either "Falcon 21" or "Falcon 42" depending on the size and number of the Raptor engines.

Falcon Heavy isnt called "Falcon 27" because all the engines are not in one core, and should arguably be called Falcon 3x9 but that's a stupid name.
Falcon 42 makes it to oblivious it's "42" engines, so that doesn't feel good either, so therefor the original name BFR.

"Falcon 21" or "mini-BFR" could work.
But naming it Falcon 21 would open the door for Falcon 42.

"Falcon R" (R=Raptor) opens the door for BFR

Names are difficult!!! MCT vs ITS... can imagine this is one of the top 10 problems for Elon Musk.  :)
« Last Edit: 07/23/2017 08:33 AM by Peter.Colin »

Offline M.E.T.

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: 07/23/2017 09:12 AM »
Sooo will this finally be a Falcon X/XX? ;)
It's 9m, and BFR stands for "Big Falcon Rocket" (at least in the safe version), so that would make it a Falcon 9... oh, no, wait. :-)

Cheers, Martin

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

The mini BFR could also be called either "Falcon 21" or "Falcon 42" depending on the size and number of the Raptor engines.

Falcon Heavy isnt called "Falcon 27" because all the engines are not in one core, and should arguably be called Falcon 3x9 but that's a stupid name.
Falcon 42 makes it to oblivious it's "42" engines, so that doesn't feel good either, so therefor the original name BFR.

"Falcon 21" or "mini-BFR" could work.
But naming it Falcon 21 would open the door for Falcon 42.

"Falcon R" (R=Raptor) opens the door for BFR

Names are difficult!!! MCT vs ITS... can imagine this is one of the top 10 problems for Elon Musk.  :)

They have had such clumsy names for the Mars vehicle over the years, and so many variations of the Falcon rocket, I think they should keep Falcon for the Merlin family and come up with a new family name for Raptor based rockets.

Just start fresh. There will no doubt be multiple generations of the Raptor rocket family, with mini-ITS just being the first.

Online MATTBLAK

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #44 on: 07/23/2017 10:05 AM »
What about lifting stages in a harness with one of those  massive Russian helicopters and taking it down to a barge at the dock? :)
« Last Edit: 07/23/2017 10:06 AM by MATTBLAK »
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Online Peter.Colin

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #45 on: 07/23/2017 10:13 AM »
Sooo will this finally be a Falcon X/XX? ;)
It's 9m, and BFR stands for "Big Falcon Rocket" (at least in the safe version), so that would make it a Falcon 9... oh, no, wait. :-)

Cheers, Martin

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

The mini BFR could also be called either "Falcon 21" or "Falcon 42" depending on the size and number of the Raptor engines.

Falcon Heavy isnt called "Falcon 27" because all the engines are not in one core, and should arguably be called Falcon 3x9 but that's a stupid name.
Falcon 42 makes it to oblivious it's "42" engines, so that doesn't feel good either, so therefor the original name BFR.

"Falcon 21" or "mini-BFR" could work.
But naming it Falcon 21 would open the door for Falcon 42.

"Falcon R" (R=Raptor) opens the door for BFR

Names are difficult!!! MCT vs ITS... can imagine this is one of the top 10 problems for Elon Musk.  :)

They have had such clumsy names for the Mars vehicle over the years, and so many variations of the Falcon rocket, I think they should keep Falcon for the Merlin family and come up with a new family name for Raptor based rockets.

Just start fresh. There will no doubt be multiple generations of the Raptor rocket family, with mini-ITS just being the first.

I agree they should just start fresh.

But would the new name be the name of a Noble bird (like Falcon, which dives down with pinpoint precision to its target) or the name of a Wizard (like Merlin, which makes the magic happen) ?
Raptor would have been a nice name for a new Methalox rocket family since it is a nobble bird... but since they use the same engine on the spaceship, they can't use it for the Rockets, because else it gets confusing.
They can't use Eagle anymore and Owl or Condor don't sound good as Raptor.
They really make a mess with the names.

My guess is they stick with Falcon "something"






Offline Ictogan

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #46 on: 07/23/2017 10:17 AM »
What about lifting stages in a harness with one of those  massive Russian helicopters and taking it down to a barge at the dock? :)
The IAC presentation last year put the booster at 275 tons empty. Tell me which helicopter you want to use to lift even a third of that.

Offline jpo234

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« Last Edit: 07/23/2017 11:07 AM by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline jpo234

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #48 on: 07/23/2017 11:10 AM »
The IAC presentation last year put the booster at 275 tons empty. Tell me which helicopter you want to use to lift even a third of that.

Quite a lot of the mass are probably the engines and other parts that could be installed at the launch site.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Online MATTBLAK

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #49 on: 07/23/2017 11:49 AM »
Yes... The most powerful helicopters in the world can only lift about 50 tons. Even with the engines removed, the old Saturn V S-1C stage would mass about 90 tons - so probably no joy there :(  My idea wasn't a bad one - just not researched thoroughly enough.
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Online Ionmars

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #50 on: 07/23/2017 11:51 AM »
There has been much discussion in this thread about how the ITSy could be assembled in Hawthorne and transported to Florida. But in the past SpaceX have said that ITS would be assembled near their launch pad. It seems all the parts could be manufactured in Hawthorne and shipped there. I don't think they have backed off that position.

So the question may be what properties lie close to LC39A that could host a compact final assembly building?

Edit: grammer
« Last Edit: 07/23/2017 12:09 PM by Ionmars »
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Online MATTBLAK

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #51 on: 07/23/2017 12:02 PM »
So; manufacturing of propellant tanks, engines etc at Hawthorne - but shipping and assembly near the launch site? Suppose SpaceX erects a big, new building near LC-39?
« Last Edit: 07/23/2017 12:03 PM by MATTBLAK »
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Online Ionmars

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #52 on: 07/23/2017 12:16 PM »
So; manufacturing of propellant tanks, engines etc at Hawthorne - but shipping and assembly near the launch site? Suppose SpaceX erects a big, new building near LC-39?
Yes.
I understand Blue Origin will have a plant in a nearby industrial park.
https://www.space.com/34942-blue-origin-giant-rocket-facility-takes-shape.html

But I am imagining a structure close to the present HIF. Would this be allowed by KSC?
« Last Edit: 07/23/2017 12:18 PM by Ionmars »
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #53 on: 07/23/2017 12:43 PM »
A flight itinerary??
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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #54 on: 07/23/2017 12:47 PM »
Screenshot of Blue Origin plant as of December 2016 (From Space.com article).
 
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Offline Hauerg

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #55 on: 07/23/2017 12:47 PM »
There has been much discussion in this thread about how the ITSy could be assembled in Hawthorne and transported to Florida. But in the past SpaceX have said that ITS would be assembled near their launch pad. It seems all the parts could be manufactured in Hawthorne and shipped there. I don't think they have backed off that position.

So the question may be what properties lie close to LC39A that could host a compact final assembly building?

Edit: grammer
But that was for the big big f.rocket. This now is about the smaller version.

Offline Jim

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #56 on: 07/23/2017 12:48 PM »

The even larger S-II was trucked on LA area streets regularly.

S-II was not trucked on LA streets.  It was in Seal Beach next to a naval facility.
« Last Edit: 07/23/2017 10:48 PM by Chris Bergin »

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #57 on: 07/23/2017 12:49 PM »
A flight itinerary??
Sorry, wrong image, corrected above.
« Last Edit: 07/23/2017 12:51 PM by Ionmars »
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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #58 on: 07/23/2017 12:53 PM »
...
...
But that was for the big big f.rocket. This now is about the smaller version.
Yes, but have they changed the architecture as well as the size? I haven't heard that.
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Offline Hotblack Desiato

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #59 on: 07/23/2017 12:57 PM »
Interesting development. Where will they launch it from?

From what I see, 39a is modified to sport F9-FH only (and requires a long alteration again for the ITS).

SLC 40 might not be large enough. Leaving 39b available as a clean pad, with SpaceX modifying or building a new mobile launch plattform specifically for the 9m ITS. Currently, 39b will be only used for SLS, meaning, once every year. Alternatively, if SpaceX has planned 39a in a way that moving the F9/FH-TE aside for an 9m-ITS-TE, they could use 39a for that system aswell.

The whole thing is very interesting.

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