Author Topic: Vice President Mike Pence will visit NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida  (Read 10654 times)

Offline jacqmans

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June 30, 2017
MEDIA ADVISORY M17-078

Vice President Pence to Visit NASA’s Kennedy Space Center


Vice President Mike Pence will visit NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida on Thursday, July 6.

NASA Television and the agency’s website will provide live coverage for parts of the visit starting at noon EDT with Air Force Two’s arrival at Kennedy’s Shuttle Landing Facility runway, as well as a special address to the center’s workforce at 12:50 p.m.

The Vice President will tour Kennedy and learn more about the center’s work as a multi-user spaceport for commercial and government clients, as well as see the agency’s progress toward launching from U.S. soil on spacecraft built by American companies, and traveling past the moon, and eventually on to Mars and beyond with the help of NASA’s new Orion spacecraft and Space Launch System rocket.

U.S. media who wish to cover the Vice President’s visit must apply for accreditation online at:

https://media.ksc.nasa.gov

NOTE: All media applications for credentialing must be received before noon EDT Monday, July 3. This is a hard deadline. No exceptions.

Applications for media credentials for international journalists are not available for this event. Questions about accreditation may be addressed to Jennifer Horner at jennifer.p.horner@nasa.gov or 321-867-6598. For other questions, or additional information, contact Kennedy’s newsroom at 321-867-2468. Media must present two forms of unexpired, government identification to enter Kennedy. One form must include a photo, such as a passport or driver’s license.

Media should plan to arrive at Kennedy’s Pass and Identification Building on State Road 405, east of the Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex, Thursday morning for security screenings and transportation to event locations. The exact arrival time will be provided during the accreditation process.

For more information about NASA’s Kennedy Space Center, visit:

https://www.nasa.gov/kennedy

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Pence has visited JSC, and will now visit KSC.

Has he already visited other "space" sites as Vice President, VP-elect, or VP candidate?
« Last Edit: 07/01/2017 06:16 PM by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline jacqmans

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July 05, 2017
MEDIA ADVISORY M17-082

NASA Provides Coverage of Vice President Pence’s Visit to Kennedy Space Center

NASA will provide television, still image and social media coverage of Vice President Mike Pence’s visit to the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida on Thursday, July 6.

NASA TV and the agency’s website will air live coverage for parts of the visit starting at noon EDT with Air Force Two’s arrival at Kennedy’s Shuttle Landing Facility runway, followed by a special address to the center’s workforce in the iconic Vehicle Assembly Building at 1 p.m.

The vice president will tour Kennedy and learn more about the center’s work as a multi-user spaceport for commercial and government clients, as well as see the agency’s progress toward launching from U.S. soil on spacecraft built by American companies, and traveling past the moon, and eventually on to Mars and beyond with the help of NASA’s new Orion spacecraft and Space Launch System rocket.

Media should plan to pick up their credentials Thursday at the Kennedy Badging Office on State Road 405, east of the Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex, and then proceed to the Pass and Identification Building on State Road 3 for security screenings and transportation to the event locations. Media who have selected to attend the Vehicle Assembly Building event should arrive at the Pass and Identification Building on State Road 3 at 10 a.m. Media who have selected to attend the event at the Neil Armstrong Operations and Checkout Building should arrive at 12:30 p.m. Additional details will be provided during the accreditation process.

Questions about accreditation may be addressed to Jennifer Horner at jennifer.p.horner@nasa.gov or Amber Philman at amber.n.philman@nasa.gov. For other questions or additional information, contact Kennedy’s newsroom at 321-867-2468. Media must present two forms of unexpired, government identification to enter Kennedy. One form must include a photo, such as a passport or driver’s license.

For images of the vice president’s tour, visit NASA’s homepage and the agency’s headquarters Flickr account.

Coverage on NASA’s social media accounts will include Facebook, Twitter, and Snapchat.

Offline KSC Sage

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There will a CST-100 mockup, Dragon, Orion mockup, and a Dream Chaser mockup on display in the VAB Transfer Aisle for VP Pence to see.  He's also visiting the O&C Armstrong building to see the EM-1 Orion spacecraft in the high bay.

Offline psloss

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Camera 082 in the upper left quad of the closed-circuit frame grab.


Online Chris Bergin

The VP's Beast and some retired Shuttle landing convoy vehicles.

Online Chris Bergin

Dragon, Orion and Starliner on stage. I'd love a speech from those three.

Online Chris Bergin

Bob Cabana reels off all the commercial partners, gets to mentioning SpaceX and the audience starts applauding.

Online Chris Bergin

Was fully expecting former MSFC director Lightfoot to basically mention SLS every second word, but he went big on commercial partnerships.


Online Chris Bergin

VP Pence Speech: "Trump Leadership" mentions = 501. "Heaven" mentions = 28. SLS mentions = 0.

Offline GWH

It's a good thing that he keeps reminding everyone that America will be great in space again.
Otherwise one would need to open a history book and be reminded that they have led since the 60's   ::)
« Last Edit: 07/06/2017 05:48 PM by GWH »

Offline Rocket Science

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That sounded more like a campaign speech to me... ??? Did he leave a bag of money behind?
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline hektor

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Nice words but little substance.

Offline Endeavour_01

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A lot of promises of a great new era of American space exploration, no details on policies that will achieve this.

There was a lot of repetition in this speech. Numerous repeats of phrases like, "With the leadership of Pres. Trump we will start a new era in spaceflight" and rehashing parts of his speech from last month at JSC. Nothing new was really discussed (unless you count the non-space discussion at the start of the speech).
I cheer for both NASA and commercial space. For SLS, Orion, Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy, Dragon, Starliner, Cygnus and all the rest!
I was blessed to see the launch of Space Shuttle Endeavour on STS-99. The launch was beyond amazing. My 8-year old mind was blown. I remember the noise and seeing the exhaust pour out of the shuttle as it lifted off. I remember staring and watching it soar while it was visible in the clear blue sky. It was one of the greatest moments of my life and I will never forget it.

Online AncientU

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Wow. This is very political. Very little on space.

So what else is new?
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Offline zubenelgenubi

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My semi-informed opinion:
Anything that NSF contributors would consider "important" probably happened behind-the-scenes today.

Sometimes the "tour" is the "AHA" moment.
***

(Going a bit off-topic to try to prove a point)
Our forum historians, please correct me if I'm wrong: JFK's visits NASA and USAF space facilities influenced him to stay the course on the Apollo program.

(Here's a photo from the visit to Launch Operations Center (now KSC) 6 days before his assassination.  The image below would be on the grounds of the Air Force Station.)

ST-C400-6-63. President John F. Kennedy Briefed on Saturn Rocket
https://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/Archives/JFKWHP-ST-C400-6-63.aspx

Description: President John F. Kennedy (wearing sunglasses) is briefed by Dr. Wernher Von Braun regarding the Saturn rocket at Pad B, Complex 37, Cape Canaveral, Florida. (L-R) Associate Administrator of National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Dr. Robert C. Seamans, Jr.; Senator George Smathers of Florida; unidentified (mostly hidden); President Kennedy; Administrator of NASA James E. Webb; Dr. Von Braun (partially hidden); Deputy Administrator of NASA Dr. Hugh L. Dryden; Military Aide to the President Chester V. Clifton.
« Last Edit: 07/06/2017 07:06 PM by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline Star One

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Offline zubenelgenubi

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Space News article on the visit.

http://spacenews.com/pence-says-nasa-to-reorient-towards-human-spaceflight/

Does anyone know WHICH Dragon capsule?
Quote
The backdrop to his speech included a flown SpaceX Dragon capsule and a mockup of a Boeing CST-100 Starliner commercial crew vehicle, as well as the Orion capsule that flew on a brief December 2014 test flight.

And, spoken like some true space enthusiasts...
Quote
He also alluded in his remarks to the SpaceX Falcon 9 launch from nearby Launch Complex 39A that took place on the evening of July 5. “I was praying for rain at the Kennedy Space Center so we might see that rocket go up today,” he said.
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Offline Blackstar

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There was a lot of repetition in this speech. Numerous repeats of phrases like, "With the leadership of Pres. Trump we will start a new era in spaceflight" and rehashing parts of his speech from last month at JSC. Nothing new was really discussed (unless you count the non-space discussion at the start of the speech).

I just went through the written transcript and counted 40 mentions of the word "President."

Online Chris Bergin

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

July 6, 2017

 

COALITION FOR DEEP SPACE EXPLORATION APPLAUDS VICE PRESIDENT PENCE VISIT AND REMARKS AT THE NASA KENNEDY SPACE CENTER

 

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The Coalition for Deep Space Exploration (Coalition) joins with its industry partners in applauding Vice President Pence for his visit to the NASA Kennedy Space Center (KSC) just days after the center celebrated its 55th birthday.  Attendees at the Vice President’s visit included Senators Bill Nelson and Marco Rubio, Representatives Bill Posey and Ron de Santis, NASA Acting Administrator Robert Lightfoot, Kennedy Space Center Director Robert Cabana and Deputy Director Janet Petro, Apollo astronaut Dr. Buzz Aldrin, and several Florida officials, as well as executives from Coalition Board of Directors member companies: Leanne Caret, President of Boeing Defense and Space; Terry Hagen, President, Aerospace and Technology, Jacobs Engineering; Marillyn Hewson, CEO of Lockheed Martin and Lisa B. Callahan, Vice President and General Manager of Civil Space, Lockheed Martin Corporation's Space Systems Company; Rick Serfozo, KSC Site Director, Orbital ATK, and Julie Van Kleeck, Vice President of Advanced Space and Launch Programs and Strategy at Aerojet Rocketdyne.

 

Speaking in the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) against a backdrop that included the Orion crew vehicle flown during the EFT-1 mission and where the Orion will be stacked atop the Space Launch System prior to their journey into deep space, the Vice President celebrated the role that NASA has played in American leadership at home, abroad and in space, pledging “a new era in space exploration in the United States of America” and calling for a program to “return to the Moon and put American boots on the face of Mars.”  He also recalled the signing just last Friday of the President’s Executive Order re-establishing the National Space Council and pledged to host the first meeting of the NSC “before the summer is out”.

 

“Both the Vice President and NASA’s Acting Administrator Robert Lightfoot acknowledged the need to work together across all sectors of government, business, and academia to promote America’s programs in space,” said Dr. Mary Lynne Dittmar, President and CEO of the Coalition.  “The Coalition’s 70 members are working hard to achieve this - from the International Space Station to the outermost planets of the solar system - supporting human exploration, commerce, and science missions.  We welcome the commitment of this Administration to maintain a presence in LEO, return to the Moon and go to Mars and beyond.”

Offline Endeavour_01

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"We welcome the commitment of this Administration to maintain a presence in LEO"

That was the only thing mentioned in the speech that I hadn't heard before in terms of space policy. The idea that the Administration supports the development of a successor to the ISS and therefore maintaining humans in LEO is quite encouraging. (as long as it doesn't detract from sending humans BLEO again).
I cheer for both NASA and commercial space. For SLS, Orion, Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy, Dragon, Starliner, Cygnus and all the rest!
I was blessed to see the launch of Space Shuttle Endeavour on STS-99. The launch was beyond amazing. My 8-year old mind was blown. I remember the noise and seeing the exhaust pour out of the shuttle as it lifted off. I remember staring and watching it soar while it was visible in the clear blue sky. It was one of the greatest moments of my life and I will never forget it.

Offline yg1968

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These two parts of the speech were interesting:

Quote from: Vice President Pence
And from this “Bridge to Space [KSC],” our nation will return to the Moon, and we will put American boots on the face of Mars.  (Applause.)

Quote from: Vice President Pence
We will maintain a constant presence in low-Earth orbit, and we will develop policies that will carry human space exploration across our solar system and ultimately into the vast expanse of space.


https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/07/06/remarks-vice-president-kennedy-space-center
« Last Edit: 07/06/2017 11:16 PM by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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« Last Edit: 07/06/2017 11:29 PM by yg1968 »

Offline topo334

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There was a lot of repetition in this speech. Numerous repeats of phrases like, "With the leadership of Pres. Trump we will start a new era in spaceflight" and rehashing parts of his speech from last month at JSC. Nothing new was really discussed (unless you count the non-space discussion at the start of the speech).

I just went through the written transcript and counted 40 mentions of the word "President."

Whoopee! A big helping of platitudes in a very thin broth.

Offline Coastal Ron

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Quote from: Vice President Pence
We will maintain a constant presence in low-Earth orbit, and we will develop policies that will carry human space exploration across our solar system and ultimately into the vast expanse of space.

Well the ISS has been planned to last through at least 2024 anyways (i.e. the end of a 2nd Trump term), so from a Trump Administration standpoint saying they will keep a constant presence in LEO is not a change in policy, just a continuation of the Obama policy.

As for "...policies that will carry human space exploration across our solar system..." that could be an allusion to their focus on the private sector for space. That might an indication of what Pence plans to focus on with the NSC.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Online Chris Bergin

By the way, credit to no one actually going after me, here or on Twitter, for being a bit "cheeky" with some of the speech (although I think you all know I like to add a bit of personality to posts/tweets)....but if it helps anyone who thinks I was being a bit "yawn, politics" - trust me, you've got a LONG way to go before you beat the UK for crap politics. A LONG way. Most of your lawmakers are like a frakking dream team compared to ours.

Online Chris Bergin

KSC presser:

Vice President Mike Pence thanked employees at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida for their commitment to America’s continued leadership in the space frontier during a visit to America’s multi-user spaceport on Thursday.

“Let us do what our nation has always done since its very founding and beyond: We've pushed the boundaries on frontiers, not just of territory, but of knowledge. We've blazed new trails, and we’ve astonished the world as we’ve boldly grasped our future without fear,” the Vice President told employees, government dignitaries and space industry leaders in remarks at the facility’s iconic Vehicle Assembly Building, where the new Space Launch System (SLS) rocket and Orion spacecraft will be prepared ahead of launches to the moon, and eventually to Mars and beyond. “From this ‘Bridge to Space,’ our nation will return to the moon, and we will put American boots on the face of Mars.”

Acting NASA Administrator Robert Lightfoot thanked Vice President Pence and the administration for their strong support, and pointed out the evidence of government and industry cooperation on display at Kennedy.

“Here, of all places, we can see we’re not looking at an ‘and/or proposition’,” Lightfoot said. “We need government and commercial entities. We need large companies and small companies. We need international partners and our domestic suppliers. And we need academia to bring that innovation and excitement that they bring to the next workforce that we’re going to use to actually keep going further into space than we ever have before.”

Vice President Pence also got a first-hand look at the public-private partnerships at Kennedy during a tour that showcased both NASA and commercial work that will soon lead to U.S.-based astronaut launches and eventual missions into deep space. The Vice President started his visit with a concrete example of public-private development, as Air Force Two touched down on the Shuttle Landing Facility, the former space shuttle landing strip now leased and operated by Space Florida. After his remarks in the Vehicle Assembly Building, the Vice President shook hands with employees before departing on a tour, accompanied by Lightfoot, Kennedy Space Center Director Robert Cabana, and NASA astronauts Pat Forrester and Reid Wiseman.

The Vice President visited the center’s Neil Armstrong Operations and Checkout Building, where the Orion spacecraft is being prepped for its first integrated flight with SLS in 2019. Orion has elements made in America by workers at more than 1,500 companies in 48 states, and some of that work, including components of Orion’s protective heat shield, were on display during the tour.

A driving tour showcased the mobile launch platform being readied for SLS flights as well as two commercial space facilities: Launch Complex 39A, the historic Apollo and shuttle pad now leased by SpaceX and used for commercial launches, and Boeing’s facility, where engineers are prepping the company’s Starliner capsule for crew flights to the space station in the same facility once used to do the same thing for space shuttles.

“We are in a great position here at Kennedy, we made our vision a reality; it couldn’t have been done without the passion and energy of our workforce,” said Kennedy Space Center Director Cabana. “Kennedy is fully established as a multi-user spaceport supporting both government and commercial partners in the space industry. As America’s premier multi-user spaceport, Kennedy continues to make history as it evolves, launching to low-Earth orbit and beyond.”

The Vice President also discussed President Trump’s executive order signed on June 30, re-establishing the National Space Council to coordinate all aspects of the nation’s space power. The Vice President said the Council will bring a renewed sense of purpose to America’s space policy by strengthening our economy and unlocking new opportunities, inspiring our children, enhancing our common defense and advancing the security of the American people.

For more information about NASA’s missions and activities, including video and images of Vice President Pence’s tour of the Kennedy Space Center, visit:

https://www.nasa.gov

-end-

Online Flying Beaver

« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 02:15 AM by Flying Beaver »
Saw OG-2 Booster Land in person 21/12/2015.

Offline envy887

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This is making the rounds on Reddit  8)

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/6lp69p/critical_space_flight_hardware_do_not_touch/

For the improper use of quotation marks for emphasis on the sign, no doubt.


Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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This is making the rounds on Reddit  8)

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/6lp69p/critical_space_flight_hardware_do_not_touch/

Lots of official NASA photos of VP visit at https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqphoto/, but strangely not that one ... personally I think NASA is rather embarrassed at the use of quotes around the DO NOT TOUCH.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 09:03 AM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Star One

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Sorry Veep, America already leads the world in space by a large margin

Quote
Trump administration has a golden opportunity to extend US leadership.

Quote
The subtext here is that America has fallen far behind in space—and that it needs strong leadership to get back on its feet. While there are definitely significant problems with US space policy—starting with the lack of a clear direction for human spaceflight and the funding to support those goals—no other nation can come close to the United States in space. Moreover, because of the long lead times baked into aerospace development, almost every "accomplishment" that demonstrates American leadership in space during the next 3.5 years will have started long before President Trump took office.

Quote
Despite all of its "America will lead in space once again" talk, the Trump administration has the potential to do some good with its revitalized National Space Council. When he wasn't saying America was behind in space, Pence on Thursday noted many of the accomplishments of the US commercial space industry.

If the new administration standardizes and simplifies regulations for these companies, allows NASA and the US military to make prudent investments, sets achievable goals for human spaceflight, embraces international partners rather than excludes them with an "America first" attitude, and continues to support planetary exploration without gutting Earth science, America's already considerable lead in space exploration can become insurmountable.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/07/actually-heres-all-the-ways-that-america-already-leads-in-space/
« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 03:32 PM by Star One »

Offline yg1968

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The U.S. isn't leading in human space exploration until it can send its astronauts into space on its own.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 03:34 PM by yg1968 »

Offline Jim

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The U.S. isn't leading until it can send its astronauts into space on its own.

The ability to put a man into space has nothing to do with leading in space. 
The Arstechnica article backs that up and it doesn't cover the half the areas. 

edited. You changed your post

The article doesn't specify HSF.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 03:38 PM by Jim »

Offline RonM

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The U.S. isn't leading until it can send its astronauts into space on its own.

The ability to put a man into space has nothing to do with leading in space. 

Yes. As far as HSF is concerned, the US is developing three different crewed capsules, two of which will be operational within two years. Looks like leadership to me.

Offline yg1968

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The U.S. isn't leading until it can send its astronauts into space on its own.

The ability to put a man into space has nothing to do with leading in space. 
The Arstechnica article backs that up and it doesn't cover the half the areas. 

edited. You changed your post

The article doesn't specify HSF.

Pence mentioned in his speech that he wanted NASA to focus on human space exploration. His entire speech was about HSF.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 05:02 PM by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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The U.S. isn't leading until it can send its astronauts into space on its own.

The ability to put a man into space has nothing to do with leading in space. 

Yes. As far as HSF is concerned, the US is developing three different crewed capsules, two of which will be operational within two years. Looks like leadership to me.

You can't be in the lead in a race if you are still in the pit area. But things are looking up, I agree.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 05:03 PM by yg1968 »

Offline Rocket Science

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This is making the rounds on Reddit  8)

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/6lp69p/critical_space_flight_hardware_do_not_touch/
In this pic it almost looks like Bob is tugging on the VP's right upper arm to pull him away from the hardware... ;D
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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
Sorry @NASA...@MarcoRubio dared me to do it!

https://twitter.com/vp/status/883408689285214211
« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 07:45 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Coastal Ron

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The U.S. isn't leading in human space exploration until it can send its astronauts into space on its own.

Space "exploration" is different than space "transportation". Riding in a Soyuz on the way to the ISS is not "exploration", it's "transportation".

Human space "exploration" is what the ISS is all about, and there should be no question that the U.S. dominates today.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline spacenut

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The ability to put men into space is the ability to lead in the eyes of the public. 

Offline mme

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These two parts of the speech were interesting:

Quote from: Vice President Pence
And from this “Bridge to Space [KSC],” our nation will return to the Moon, and we will put American boots on the face of Mars.  (Applause.)

Quote from: Vice President Pence
We will maintain a constant presence in low-Earth orbit, and we will develop policies that will carry human space exploration across our solar system and ultimately into the vast expanse of space.


https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/07/06/remarks-vice-president-kennedy-space-center
I see only two politically plausible paths to the USG getting humans on Mars or even the Moon again:
1. Congress passes a law with mandatory funding, time tables and requiring a super majority to repeal.
2. Some US company makes it really cheap to happen in under 4 years.

Other than that I take these statements to mean "we'll keep ISS alive and keep funding SLS and commercial crew at about the same levels we have been as already planned.  Someone else will sort out the details in 4 or 8 years."  Lather, rinse, repeat.  To quote a young Pete Townshen:

Quote
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

To be explicit, I do not think even another space race would work.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 09:43 PM by mme »
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Online AncientU

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The U.S. isn't leading in human space exploration until it can send its astronauts into space on its own.

Space "exploration" is different than space "transportation". Riding in a Soyuz on the way to the ISS is not "exploration", it's "transportation".

Human space "exploration" is what the ISS is all about, and there should be no question that the U.S. dominates today.

As far as human space flight is concerned, I'd agree with you if ISS was established and then additional infrastructure followed... so that exploration could reach out to new destinies.  Leadership denotes motion in a direction.  Hanging out in LEO for decades with no path beyond is loitering, maintaining the status quo, not leadership.

Our planetary/science exploration program is scientific leadership at its finest -- the grand tours of the Voyagers, the great observatories, the family of Mars rovers, Cassini and Galileo, and smaller astro missions like COBE/WMAP, Kepler, New Horizons.  The list is long, and stretches unbroken from the 1960s.  Missions built on missions, and many nations joined in as collaborators/followers.  Some nations and groups of nations moved beyond these partnerships and accomplished great things without the US, too.  All good.

I'd love to see our HSF program once again have the vitality that is in evidence in our science exploration effort.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 11:15 PM by AncientU »
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Offline Coastal Ron

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The ability to put men into space is the ability to lead in the eyes of the public.

If that were the case then NASA won't be "leading" even when Commercial Crew becomes operational, since that won't be government transportation systems, but private ones. Really no different than contracting with the Russians.

So apparently you are thinking America won't be "leading" until the Orion spacecraft is finally launched with humans? Even though it will only stay in space for a fraction of the time our astronauts spend in space on the ISS? That just doesn't make sense to me.

And I disagree that the U.S. public conflates the two, especially since most of the news coverage of the ISS is U.S. astronauts doing science (and other things) INSIDE of the ISS, which is U.S. territory in space. We are beyond the Apollo and Shuttle era where we are only in space for short periods of time.

Regarding who is leading who, does anyone else have a giant space station in low Earth orbit to compete with us? Has anyone else kept a space station, of any size, continuously occupied for over 15 years? What are the metrics?

Also, when I talk about the science being done in space with the ISS, people don't stop me and say "yeah, but those astronauts didn't get to space on a NASA spaceship". Is that the prevalent response that anyone gets when talking about the ISS to non-space nerds like us?
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline Coastal Ron

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An update on V.P. Pence touching the Orion component that had a sign saying "Do Not Touch", Pence says Senator Marco Rubio dared him to touch it.

I'm sure no permanent harm was done to the part, but this Administration has a hard time explaining things in a straightforward way...
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline TomH

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“Procedures require the hardware to be cleaned before tiles are bonded to the spacecraft, so touching the surface is absolutely okay,” said NASA spokeswoman Jen Rae Wang. “Otherwise, the hardware would have had a protective cover over it like the thermal heat shield, which was nearby.”
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Online AncientU

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An update on V.P. Pence touching the Orion component that had a sign saying "Do Not Touch", Pence says Senator Marco Rubio dared him to touch it.

I'm sure no permanent harm was done to the part, but this Administration has a hard time explaining things in a straightforward way...

I think that was a joke. People have a hard time accepting this administration doesn't eat children three meals a day.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 11:39 PM by AncientU »
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Offline Proponent

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From the Post article: "NASA then reassured the vice president that he did nothing wrong, tweeting: 'It was OK to touch the surface. Those are just day-to-day reminder signs.'"

What's the difference between a "day-to-day reminder sign" that's OK to ignore and a serious sign?  Maybe it's the quotation marks? :)


Offline Lar

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“Procedures require the hardware to be cleaned before tiles are bonded to the spacecraft, so touching the surface is absolutely okay,” said NASA spokeswoman Jen Rae Wang. “Otherwise, the hardware would have had a protective cover over it like the thermal heat shield, which was nearby.”

So what was the sign for? Yeesh. I think someone told some NASA functionary to explain this away.
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Offline Rocket Science

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I think I'll ignore those "day-to-day reminder signs" that say "Remove before flight" next time I go flying and see how it turns out... If it's good enough for NASA then it's good enough for me... I'll let you know how it turns out...or maybe I won't be able to, we'll see! ;)
« Last Edit: 07/08/2017 01:46 PM by Rocket Science »
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Offline spacenut

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Even if it is private, but American, from my families point of view, it is American made, America leading using private companies.  Some of my extended family doesn't even know about SpaceX landing rockets, they just don't keep up with the space program, and think everything space is NASA.  Also, all they ever saw on the news was SpaceX "failing" because then crashed their rockets and didn't land them, even though the satellites made it to proper orbit.  News is mostly negative, so they report any crashes, airline crashes, trains derailing, etc.  It is up to us to spread the truth.  The national news will not do it. 

Offline Rocket Science

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Even if it is private, but American, from my families point of view, it is American made, America leading using private companies.  Some of my extended family doesn't even know about SpaceX landing rockets, they just don't keep up with the space program, and think everything space is NASA.  Also, all they ever saw on the news was SpaceX "failing" because then crashed their rockets and didn't land them, even though the satellites made it to proper orbit.  News is mostly negative, so they report any crashes, airline crashes, trains derailing, etc.  It is up to us to spread the truth.  The national news will not do it.
Give this to your family, they might be surprised what they drive is not fully 100% American apart from Tesla who also just happens to make 100% made American rockets by that guy Elon Musk...
BTW it is up to the individual to educate themselves... We are not a "nanny state"...
http://time.com/4677817/american-cars-brands-manufacturing/
« Last Edit: 07/08/2017 02:02 PM by Rocket Science »
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Offline spacenut

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True, but my extended family is large and is a composite of American culture.  Not many are interested in Space, and what they know, they hear about on the news.  News can be mostly negative thus they want to cut spending on space. 

Offline Rocket Science

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True, but my extended family is large and is a composite of American culture.  Not many are interested in Space, and what they know, they hear about on the news.  News can be mostly negative thus they want to cut spending on space.
They need to change the channel then...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Offline psloss

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“Procedures require the hardware to be cleaned before tiles are bonded to the spacecraft, so touching the surface is absolutely okay,” said NASA spokeswoman Jen Rae Wang. “Otherwise, the hardware would have had a protective cover over it like the thermal heat shield, which was nearby.”

So what was the sign for?
The sign was for "everyone else."

Offline Semmel

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“Procedures require the hardware to be cleaned before tiles are bonded to the spacecraft, so touching the surface is absolutely okay,” said NASA spokeswoman Jen Rae Wang. “Otherwise, the hardware would have had a protective cover over it like the thermal heat shield, which was nearby.”

So what was the sign for? Yeesh. I think someone told some NASA functionary to explain this away.

I work in scientific instrumentation and we have these signs too. Its most of the time no problem to "touch" the things we have. In fact, we do it all the time in the lab when we use our instruments and hardware. But we know how to handle them, a visitor doesnt. We dont want anybody to touch our stuff not because "touching" it would damage it, but most ways of damaging it involves touching in the first place. In a more formal way, touching is a necessary but not a sufficient requirement for damage.

The piece of hardware on the display might be precisely manufactured with tolerances in the micron level. We dont know. Then touching it would not damage it. But lifting it up and setting it back down inappropriately or carelessly might ever so slightly deform the piece and would essentially make it useless. So in this sense, the sign is vital to protect the piece from damage, but the damage is not caused by touching it directly.

Offline psloss

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Many of the non-VIP versions of these tours begin with a verbal warning not to touch stuff.

There's almost always a "do not touch" stop on the tour -- if there isn't a planned one, the need arises to add it somewhere along the way.

Online Chris Bergin

To be fair he can touch whatever he wants if he gives NASA a solid costed plan via the council.

Offline Coastal Ron

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An update on V.P. Pence touching the Orion component that had a sign saying "Do Not Touch", Pence says Senator Marco Rubio dared him to touch it.

I'm sure no permanent harm was done to the part, but this Administration has a hard time explaining things in a straightforward way...

I think that was a joke. People have a hard time accepting this administration doesn't eat children three meals a day.

A simple statement from NASA saying that Pence was given the OK to touch the part by NASA since it would be cleaned later would have cleared the air quickly about this. NASA could have even tweeted it out.

Instead we have to guess if Pence was being serious or trying to be humorous with his explanation - which the reason why there is a question is that Pence is not someone known to crack jokes. But regardless, the question of "why" he touched it is still left unanswered, which is what keeps this conversation going...
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline Endeavour_01

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You can't be in the lead in a race if you are still in the pit area. But things are looking up, I agree.

The ability to put men into space is the ability to lead in the eyes of the public.

If that were the case then NASA won't be "leading" even when Commercial Crew becomes operational, since that won't be government transportation systems, but private ones. Really no different than contracting with the
Russians.

I agree that the US cannot claim the mantle of sole leadership in HSF without the ability to launch its own astronauts. I think we can say that the US is "a" leader right now in HSF given the US segment of the ISS, commercial cargo capabilities, and what we have coming down the pike. That said Ron the ISS stands for "International Space Station." The US segment is not the sum total of the station. If it was then your argument would be stronger.

I disagree that contracting with commercial companies is no different than contracting with the Russians. These companies don't exist is some nebulous international space, they are incorporated in the US. Using homegrown launchers and spacecraft (which were mostly grown with NASA contracts) is far different than contracting with a foreign country. Anybody can contract flights for their astros from another country that has spaceflight capability, but not everybody has spaceflight capability.

It may be a different form of contract than years past but NASA has always worked with US industry to develop spacecraft.
I cheer for both NASA and commercial space. For SLS, Orion, Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy, Dragon, Starliner, Cygnus and all the rest!
I was blessed to see the launch of Space Shuttle Endeavour on STS-99. The launch was beyond amazing. My 8-year old mind was blown. I remember the noise and seeing the exhaust pour out of the shuttle as it lifted off. I remember staring and watching it soar while it was visible in the clear blue sky. It was one of the greatest moments of my life and I will never forget it.

Offline Coastal Ron

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I agree that the US cannot claim the mantle of sole leadership in HSF without the ability to launch its own astronauts.

Those that say the U.S. is not the HSF leader usually never say who is. Who do you think Trump & Pence think is the leader in HSF today, and why? And do you agree?

Quote
I think we can say that the US is "a" leader right now in HSF given the US segment of the ISS, commercial cargo capabilities, and what we have coming down the pike.

I too look at the totality of capabilities, and from that I see the U.S. as the clear leader. Who is even close, and why?

Quote
That said Ron the ISS stands for "International Space Station." The US segment is not the sum total of the station. If it was then your argument would be stronger.

By agreement the two primary partners in the ISS are the Russians and us, but based on the value we get out of the ISS versus the Russians - the amount of science output - I think it's quite clear that the U.S. is making the most of the ISS. Russia continues to be an important partner, but it's clear their best days in space are behind them at this point in history.

Quote
I disagree that contracting with commercial companies is no different than contracting with the Russians.

The specific implication I was countering had to do with the act of being transported to LEO, and whether that was the major component of Human SpaceFlight (HSF). I don't consider moving people to/from LEO & Earth as "HSF". HSF to me is what we are DOING in space - working, living, etc.

For instance, is your work defined on how you get to work?

Quote
It may be a different form of contract than years past but NASA has always worked with US industry to develop spacecraft.

Back in NASA's prior form, being NACA, it's goal was to help industry develop better aeronautical transportation systems. The NASA of the future would be a great asset for helping to do the same for spacecraft, but it can't be competing with U.S. industry at the same time.
« Last Edit: 07/09/2017 01:57 PM by Coastal Ron »
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Online QuantumG

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A simple statement from NASA saying that Pence was given the OK to touch the part by NASA since it would be cleaned later would have cleared the air quickly about this. NASA could have even tweeted it out.

That's exactly what NASA did... and people still think they know better, or that the NASA spokesperson is covering for the boss, or whatever. Once something becomes political no amount of facts matter.
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Offline Endeavour_01

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Those that say the U.S. is not the HSF leader usually never say who is. Who do you think Trump & Pence think is the leader in HSF today, and why? And do you agree?

Honestly I don't think there is any sole leader at this moment when HSF is concerned. Russia has launch capability, resupply capability, and a space station segment but science done on that segment is lacking (compared to the US segment) and they are cutting their space funding. China has launch capability and their space station is about to come online, but their progress is slow and will likely be outpaced by the US once new systems come online.

The US doesn't have the ability to launch humans into space right now but it has a successful space station segment, resupply capabilities, and will soon have systems that will launch people into LEO and BLEO. If you take a snapshot of this particular moment I think it is valid to say that the US isn't the sole leader in HSF. Once we get a little farther into the future I think the US will be the obvious leader in HSF.

Quote
The specific implication I was countering had to do with the act of being transported to LEO, and whether that was the major component of Human SpaceFlight (HSF). I don't consider moving people to/from LEO & Earth as "HSF". HSF to me is what we are DOING in space - working, living, etc.

It is "a" major component but not "the" major component. I think you are getting into semantics here by saying "moving people from Earth to LEO doesn't count as HSF." Human space flight means humans flying in space. They don't just beam to the ISS. The transport counts as spaceflight. Would you consider a 6 month flight to Mars as "not HSF" because they haven't reached their destination yet?

Quote
Back in NASA's prior form, being NACA, it's goal was to help industry develop better aeronautical transportation systems. The NASA of the future would be a great asset for helping to do the same for spacecraft, but it can't be competing with U.S. industry at the same time.

So far there isn't any "competing" going on between NASA and private industry. In fact leaders from both camps have been emphasizing cooperation and an all of the above approach. Maybe that will change in the future but for right now NASA and private industry have been doing a great job of complementing rather than competing.
« Last Edit: 07/10/2017 02:42 AM by Endeavour_01 »
I cheer for both NASA and commercial space. For SLS, Orion, Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy, Dragon, Starliner, Cygnus and all the rest!
I was blessed to see the launch of Space Shuttle Endeavour on STS-99. The launch was beyond amazing. My 8-year old mind was blown. I remember the noise and seeing the exhaust pour out of the shuttle as it lifted off. I remember staring and watching it soar while it was visible in the clear blue sky. It was one of the greatest moments of my life and I will never forget it.

Offline clongton

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The subtext here is that America has fallen far behind in space—

It depends on what one means by "fallen behind in space".
In terms of robotic activity in space, America is the clear leader.
In terms of human activity in space, America is the clear leader.
In terms of human transportation to space:

....The Chinese are transporting their astronauts into space on Chinese rockets.
....The Russians are transporting everyone else's astronauts (except the Chinese) into space on Russian rockets.
....America used to transport American astronauts into space on American rockets - but not anymore.
....The Americans threw away their human transportation system - TWICE!
....In terms of human transportation into space America is clearly *not* the leader, future plans notwithstanding.
« Last Edit: 07/10/2017 04:31 PM by clongton »
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Online QuantumG

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In terms of robotic activity in space, America is the clear leader.

Things actually done in space.

Quote from: clongton
In terms of human activity in space, America is the clear leader.

Things actually done in space.

Quote from: clongton
In terms of human transportation to space:

Not actually things done in space.

Personally I think that commercial, government and military satellites are a more important indicator of who is the "leader" in space. Not "science". Not national prestige. Not even launch. These are side shows. The US is the clear winner, with Russia and Europe nipping at the heels.
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Offline zubenelgenubi

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Repeating my question...Does anyone know which Dragon craft was used?
Thank you.

Space News article on the visit.

http://spacenews.com/pence-says-nasa-to-reorient-towards-human-spaceflight/

Does anyone know WHICH Dragon capsule?
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The backdrop to his speech included a flown SpaceX Dragon capsule and a mockup of a Boeing CST-100 Starliner commercial crew vehicle, as well as the Orion capsule that flew on a brief December 2014 test flight.
« Last Edit: 07/11/2017 07:41 PM by zubenelgenubi »
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