Author Topic: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly  (Read 11350 times)

Offline AncientU

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SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« on: 06/19/2017 11:34 PM »
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SES is moving customers off a 14-year-old geostationary communications satellite thatís drifting in orbit following a ďsignificant anomalyĒ discovered over the weekend.

ďSES has taken immediate action in contacting all customers and is working to transfer services to alternative satellite capacity in order to minimize disruption,Ē the company said in a June 19 statement.

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The Luxembourg-based global fleet operator first became aware of a problem with AMC-9 the morning of June 17 ó a Saturday Ė and was still assessing the situation two days later. The Thales Alenia Space-built satellite was launched in 2003 on a Russian Proton rocket.

Payer said SES does not know whether the satellite, which provides data and broadcast services over the U.S. and Mexico using C- and Ku-band, can be returned to service. Losing the satellite would cost SES up to 20 million euros ($22.3 million) in revenue this year, SES said.

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AMC-9 was designed to last 15 years, but it is not uncommon for geostationary satellites to surpass that age and continue to generate revenue.

http://spacenews.com/sess-amc-9-satellite-drifting-after-anomaly/
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Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #1 on: 06/21/2017 09:40 AM »
Spacelfight 101 indicates that an "energetic event" is the cause for the drift.

http://spaceflight101.com/amc-9-satellite-anomaly-orbit-change/

"Orbital tracking data provided by the Joint Space Operations Center showed the AMC 9 satellite in a stable Geostationary Orbit of 35,775 by 35,798 Kilometers, inclined 0.017į as of Saturday, 6:06 UTC. The next tracking data set from Monday, 10:20 UTC shows the satellite in a 35,615 by 35,984-Kilometer, 0.028-degree orbit. Ė strongly indicating Saturdayís anomaly involved some type of energetic event sufficient to nudge the satellite out of a fully synchronous orbit. Now orbiting an average of 13 Kilometers away from a synchronous orbit, AMC 9 is drifting at approximately 0.16 degrees per day."
« Last Edit: 06/21/2017 09:41 AM by Steven Pietrobon »
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Offline synchrotron

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #2 on: 06/21/2017 01:28 PM »
If Orbital ATK had a Mission Extension Vehicle deployed, we'd get a chance to see AMC-9 brought back to service for awhile or properly graveyarded.  Under the assumption that AMC-9 still has some attitude control authority.


Offline Norm38

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #3 on: 06/22/2017 05:53 PM »
What's the orbit?  For a purely circular orbit that isn't synchronous, the bird would be either be above and slower or below and faster.  It's orbit would not intersect other satellites.  But if the orbit is elliptical and out of control, then it could collide with something, correct?

There is a very large need for tenders out there that can go grab and properly dispose of problem sats like this.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: SES’s AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #4 on: 06/22/2017 06:02 PM »
What's the orbit?  For a purely circular orbit that isn't synchronous, the bird would be either be above and slower or below and faster.  It's orbit would not intersect other satellites.  But if the orbit is elliptical and out of control, then it could collide with something, correct?

There is a very large need for tenders out there that can go grab and properly dispose of problem sats like this.
Current TLE:
AMC-9 (GE-12)           
1 27820U 03024A   17172.92543620 -.00000214  00000-0  00000-0 0  9995
2 27820   0.0236 331.7955 0043587  52.0198 136.3406  1.00224706 51479

https://www.celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/ses.txt
« Last Edit: 06/22/2017 06:03 PM by russianhalo117 »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #5 on: 07/02/2017 02:50 AM »
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A large satellite appears to be falling apart in geostationary orbit
It is not clear what might have caused the AMC-9 satellite to become unresponsive.

by Eric Berger - Jul 2, 2017 3:41am BST

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/07/a-large-satellite-appears-to-be-falling-apart-in-geostationary-orbit/


Offline kevin-rf

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #6 on: 07/02/2017 01:20 PM »
Appears to be tumbling. I wonder how fast it can tumble before major items like solar panels and antennas start to break off. Wonder if the bright object is one of the solar panels.
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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #7 on: 07/02/2017 03:24 PM »
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SES re-establishes communications with AMC-9; pieces of satellite appear to have broken off
by Peter B. de Selding | Jul 2, 2017

https://www.spaceintelreport.com/ses-re-establishes-communications-amc-9-pieces-satellite-appear-broken-off/

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: SES’s AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #8 on: 07/02/2017 05:10 PM »
So, MMOD strike or catastrophic component failure (like an RCS prop tank)?
« Last Edit: 07/02/2017 05:10 PM by Ben the Space Brit »
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Offline vt_hokie

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #9 on: 07/03/2017 03:25 PM »
What's the orbit?  For a purely circular orbit that isn't synchronous, the bird would be either be above and slower or below and faster.  It's orbit would not intersect other satellites.  But if the orbit is elliptical and out of control, then it could collide with something, correct?

There is a very large need for tenders out there that can go grab and properly dispose of problem sats like this.

There are two relatively stable longitudes in geostationary orbit, 75 deg E and 105 deg W, and all other satellites in GEO without stationkeeping will eventually drift as perturbations pull them out of their circular orbit and will oscillate about the nearest stable point I believe.  I've been out of the business a long time, so please correct me if I'm wrong! 

Offline Thomas Dorman

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #10 on: 07/03/2017 08:54 PM »
Can some one explain the motion in the video of the largest bright fragment from AMC 9 AKA GE 12. Having now taken the video apart and looked closely  this fragment is at first moving away from AMC 9 then makes what looks like a near 180 degree turn and moves back towards AMC 9. The only thing we can come up with is a parallax effect caused by this video being made from videos shot from  two or more locations.  Must caution those in the media and others in reading to much into to this,like some have already done,that it was some kind of attack from another satellite.
 From inspecting the video frame by frame and zooming in and using inverted video versions ,in addition to speeding up the video 2.5 to 3 time the speed of the original video and shuffling the different versions of the video back and forth of the satellite and the break up we see eight pieces of debris from this event with a possible one more. One problem some people are getting confused with is the other unidentified satellites or  possible old debris passing though the video.
 Graphically looking at the flash rates of the satellite as  the video  moved in time to the break up it seems clear the satellite started to spin up or tumble rapidly to the point of the break up. Just observations from the peanut gallery. Have been trying to observe AMC 9 since the problem started just can get out from under the clouds.
Regards
Thomas

Offline Thomas Dorman

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #11 on: 07/04/2017 04:57 AM »
Here are link to videos we made from the AMC 9 break up video by ExoAnalyic Solutions. These are not no were near the resolution we are using since most range in size from 9 Gb to more than 26 Gb and we do not have the storage on line to post such size videos. You can view them in the drop box and speed them up to 4 x speed but shuffling the videos is impossible in drop box they are also downloadable. All credit goes to ExoAnalyic Solutions. Any one using them that make money should should get permission from ExoAnalyic Solution to use them. This was done for research,education and for fun.  "Correct to link which now should be working."
https://www.dropbox.com/s/drswve8sx4vp7cn/AMC%209%20break%20up%20video%20d1%20inverted%20zoomed%20cropped.avi?dl=0
 here is the second one
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ptghidwchz9in3/AMC%209%20break%20up%20video%20d1cropped%20zoomed.avi?dl=0

Both are zoom in ,cropped the first is an inverted version the second is a black and white version.
If downloaded remember to adjust player screen size, contrast and brightness to best suits your viewing of the videos. We use Quick time and image J to shuffle and speed up the video. They will be some what blurry and pixelated because of the zoom. You decide what is going on! Regards Thomas
« Last Edit: 07/04/2017 05:17 AM by Thomas Dorman »

Offline Thomas Dorman

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #12 on: 07/04/2017 05:48 PM »
And the non-sense begins! :o ??? ::)


Regards
Thomas

Offline jgoldader

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #13 on: 07/05/2017 01:24 PM »
Can some one explain the motion in the video of the largest bright fragment from AMC 9 AKA GE 12. Having now taken the video apart and looked closely  this fragment is at first moving away from AMC 9 then makes what looks like a near 180 degree turn and moves back towards AMC 9.
Thomas

The video was tracking the satellite itself.  The motion of the fragment(s) is then relative to the main body of the satellite.  If some propulsive event moved the main body of the satellite in the direction of the largest fragment, it would give the appearance of the fragment moving back towards the satellite.  This is only one possible explanation, of course; I suppose the fragment itself might've experienced an impulse somehow.  It should be fairly easy for somebody with access to the raw data to tell if the satellite's motion changed during the observation.  I bet you could take a few frames on either side of the apparent change in motion of the fragment and check the motion of the main piece and fragment relative to the background stars before and after the event, see which one changed.
Recovering astronomer

Offline Thomas Dorman

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #14 on: 07/05/2017 01:48 PM »
jgoldader
One other issue with the video is the tracking of the satellite,while the imaging was taking place, it has a very apparent wobble or jumping which is coming from the tracking mount. It is not just  this fragment having strange looking motion. There is one of the other brighter fragments that comes off the lower left hand side which moves away from AMC 9 then makes what looks like an almost  90 degree turn and travels to the right just under the brightest fragment and then passes out of the field of the camera to the right side.
 In addition we believe there may and we must stress maybe a cloud like event showing on the video just as the break up event begins. This cloud, if it is not a image or video artifact, is right at the limit of being visible at the 12 to 3 O'clock position.
Regards
Thomas

Online eeergo

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #15 on: 07/17/2017 11:21 AM »
Update from Peter de Selding: https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/886906498986762240

Quote from: pbdes
SES regained telemetry of the craft on July 1st. AMC-9 continues to drift westward at approximately 0.2 deg/day with an apogee approximately 190 km above GEO, perigee 155 km below GEO, and a daily longitude variation of 1 degree in a stable and predictable orbit. We continue to monitor the orbit and attitude rates to identify conjunctions and facilitate further attitude and maneuver analysis as SES works with assistance from Thales on possible re-orbiting options for AMC-9.
-DaviD-

Offline Star One

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #16 on: 07/17/2017 11:33 AM »
Update from Peter de Selding: https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/886906498986762240

Quote from: pbdes
SES regained telemetry of the craft on July 1st. AMC-9 continues to drift westward at approximately 0.2 deg/day with an apogee approximately 190 km above GEO, perigee 155 km below GEO, and a daily longitude variation of 1 degree in a stable and predictable orbit. We continue to monitor the orbit and attitude rates to identify conjunctions and facilitate further attitude and maneuver analysis as SES works with assistance from Thales on possible re-orbiting options for AMC-9.

It's an old satellite wouldn't it be better that if possible they just put it into a standard retirement orbital position?

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #17 on: 07/17/2017 12:27 PM »
The question is whether the spacecraft still retains orbital adjustment authority. If the causative anomaly was a fault in the propellent system of either the RCS or MPS then the satellite may not be controllable beyond attitude control (if it has reaction wheels).
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Offline russianhalo117

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #18 on: 07/17/2017 02:04 PM »
Update from Peter de Selding: https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/886906498986762240

Quote from: pbdes
SES regained telemetry of the craft on July 1st. AMC-9 continues to drift westward at approximately 0.2 deg/day with an apogee approximately 190 km above GEO, perigee 155 km below GEO, and a daily longitude variation of 1 degree in a stable and predictable orbit. We continue to monitor the orbit and attitude rates to identify conjunctions and facilitate further attitude and maneuver analysis as SES works with assistance from Thales on possible re-orbiting options for AMC-9.

It's an old satellite wouldn't it be better that if possible they just put it into a standard retirement orbital position?
That is what it is sounds like they are referring to.

Offline Star One

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Re: SESís AMC-9 satellite drifting after anomaly
« Reply #19 on: 07/17/2017 07:09 PM »
Update from Peter de Selding: https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/886906498986762240

Quote from: pbdes
SES regained telemetry of the craft on July 1st. AMC-9 continues to drift westward at approximately 0.2 deg/day with an apogee approximately 190 km above GEO, perigee 155 km below GEO, and a daily longitude variation of 1 degree in a stable and predictable orbit. We continue to monitor the orbit and attitude rates to identify conjunctions and facilitate further attitude and maneuver analysis as SES works with assistance from Thales on possible re-orbiting options for AMC-9.

It's an old satellite wouldn't it be better that if possible they just put it into a standard retirement orbital position?
That is what it is sounds like they are referring to.

I did wonder but for myself that wasn't clear from the released statement.

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