Author Topic: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017  (Read 22122 times)

Offline input~2

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #40 on: 06/24/2017 02:24 PM »
Possible Volga reentry zone?

SOUTH PACIFIC.
1. HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS SPACE DEBRIS
231800Z TO 240800Z AND 241800Z TO 250800Z JUN
IN AREA BETWEEN
30-00S 60-00S AND 090-00W 175-00W.
2. CANCEL THIS MSG 250900Z JUN 17.//

Authority: NAVAREA XIV 55/17 192115Z JUN 17.


Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #41 on: 06/24/2017 02:33 PM »
Possible Volga reentry zone?

SOUTH PACIFIC.
1. HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS SPACE DEBRIS
231800Z TO 240800Z AND 241800Z TO 250800Z JUN
IN AREA BETWEEN
30-00S 60-00S AND 090-00W 175-00W.
2. CANCEL THIS MSG 250900Z JUN 17.//

Authority: NAVAREA XIV 55/17 192115Z JUN 17.


Volga or Second Stage.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #42 on: 06/24/2017 04:12 PM »
3 objects (satellite, Volga and 2nd stage(?)) found by NORAD; satellite in 660 km high, 98.05 deg. inclination SSO.
More details below:

2017-037A/42798 in 654 x 669 km x 98.05°
2017-037B/42799 in 652 x 669 km x 98.05°
2017-037C/42800 in 284 x 650 km x 98.06°
This is sun sync, or nearly-so.  Don't most geodetic satellites reside in other orbit types?

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Alter Sachse

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #43 on: 06/24/2017 05:41 PM »
3 objects (satellite, Volga and 2nd stage(?)) found by NORAD; satellite in 660 km high, 98.05 deg. inclination SSO.
More details below:

2017-037A/42798 in 654 x 669 km x 98.05°
2017-037B/42799 in 652 x 669 km x 98.05°
2017-037C/42800 in 284 x 650 km x 98.06°
This is sun sync, or nearly-so.  Don't most geodetic satellites reside in other orbit types?

 - Ed Kyle
I'm not sure it's a geodetic satellite.
see reply #36:
"The payload [for this mission] is equipment for remote sensing of the Earth and equipment to photograph objects in space".
sun sync is suitable for "remote sensing"
« Last Edit: 06/24/2017 05:51 PM by Alter Sachse »

Offline Alter Sachse

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #44 on: 06/24/2017 06:06 PM »
3 objects (satellite, Volga and 2nd stage(?)) found by NORAD; satellite in 660 km high, 98.05 deg. inclination SSO.
More details below:

2017-037A/42798 in 654 x 669 km x 98.05°
2017-037B/42799 in 652 x 669 km x 98.05°
2017-037C/42800 in 284 x 650 km x 98.06°
This is sun sync, or nearly-so.  Don't most geodetic satellites reside in other orbit types?

 - Ed Kyle
I'm not sure it's a geodetic satellite.
see reply #36:
"The payload [for this mission] is equipment for remote sensing of the Earth and equipment to photograph objects in space".
sun sync is suitable for "remote sensing"
Wikipedia (German version):
"The selected orbit height of the satellites depends on the application spectrum and is usually at least 800 km."
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geod%C3%A4tischer_Satellit

Offline Magic

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #45 on: 06/24/2017 06:35 PM »
With the Teledyne Brown 1980’s “Cosmos Calculator” it shows a flight with 98° - 600 x 660 km perimeters as Remote Sensing missions, but launched from Tyuratam (due to Cold War launch angle restrictions).
A military version of a Meteor-Priroda now using Plesetsk perhaps?
« Last Edit: 06/24/2017 06:37 PM by Magic »

Offline input~2

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #46 on: 06/24/2017 06:38 PM »
Possible Volga reentry zone?

SOUTH PACIFIC.
1. HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS SPACE DEBRIS
231800Z TO 240800Z AND 241800Z TO 250800Z JUN
IN AREA BETWEEN
30-00S 60-00S AND 090-00W 175-00W.
2. CANCEL THIS MSG 250900Z JUN 17.//

Authority: NAVAREA XIV 55/17 192115Z JUN 17.


Volga or Second Stage.
I would think Volga reentry is more probable in the timeframe indicated in the navigational warning above, since I would expect Volga to have conducted a deorbiting burn for reentry as was the case in past similar launches


Offline input~2

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #47 on: 06/24/2017 07:32 PM »
 Anatoly Zak‏ @RussianSpaceWeb 2 hours ago

Sources: Volga stage performed end-of-mission operations after #Soyuz-2-1v launch yesterday, data shows. DETAILS: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/napryazhenie.html#orbit

Offline Alter Sachse

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #48 on: 06/24/2017 07:39 PM »
Soviet/russian geodetic satellites

Online Phillip Clark

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #49 on: 06/24/2017 08:13 PM »
With the Teledyne Brown 1980’s “Cosmos Calculator” it shows a flight with 98° - 600 x 660 km perimeters as Remote Sensing missions, but launched from Tyuratam (due to Cold War launch angle restrictions).
A military version of a Meteor-Priroda now using Plesetsk perhaps?

Although retired, Nick Johnson will be delighted to know that this is still in use!

Online Liss

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #50 on: 06/24/2017 08:54 PM »
K2519 is almost in plane with 2013-028A. Don't know if this is intentional or not.

This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Alter Sachse

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #51 on: 06/24/2017 09:27 PM »
K2519 is almost in plane with 2013-028A. Don't know if this is intentional or not.
That was Kosmos 2486 ("Persona 2")
98.30° 99.76 min 714 km 733 km

Offline Alter Sachse

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #52 on: 06/24/2017 10:21 PM »
Kosmos 2519 98.05 97.97 654 669
Resurs-O1     98.05 97.98 661 663 (launched 4.11.1994)
Almost the same orbit ...

Offline Stan Black

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #53 on: 06/25/2017 08:58 AM »
fairing serial is 98 KS 1000-0 Launcher serial is No. 78072003
Payload is called Nivelir-ZU No.1 (14F150)

http://russianspaceweb.com/napryazhenie.html
Quote
...
The Nivelir project reaches launch pad?

The Russian government has released very little information about the upcoming flight, but it appears that it might be carrying the first of several 14F150 Napryazhenie geodetic satellites developed within the Nivelir-ZU project. The Russian word "napryazhenie" stands for voltage, while "nivelir" means level.
...

‘ZU’ is a component?

From Progress procurement plan of 2013 there are four entries:-
Quote
Поставка ЭРИ ОП и ЭРИ ИП в обеспечение комплектования ЗУ ОКР «Нивелир»
Изготовление и поставка модулей ЗУ для изделия 14Ф150 (ОКР «Нивелир-ЗУ»)
Поставка ЭРИ ИП в обеспечение омплектования ЗУ для ЭО КА «Напряжение»
Изготовление и поставка модулей ЗУ для ЭО КА «Напряжение»
ОКР - опытно-конструкторские работы
КА is the abbreviation for satellite.

‘Nivelir-ZU’ is the name of the work, not the satellite?

In 2014:-
Quote
Поставка модулей ХП-М, ЦСВВ, ЗУ в обеспечение комплектования ОКР «Нивелир-Л-ЗУ»
Поставка ЭРИ ОП и ЭРИ ИП в обеспечение комплектования ЗУ ОКР «Нивелир»
Поставка ЭРИ ИП в обеспечение комплектования ЗУ для ЭО КА «Напряжение»

From 2015:-
Quote
Модули ХП-М, ЦСВВ, ЗУ для изделия КА 14Ф155
Поставка модулей ХП-М, ЗУ, ЦСВВ для образца технологического блока ЗУ для стенда КА 14Ф150

Progress procurement plans can be found here:-
http://www.samspace.ru/zakupki/plany_zakupok/

Further indication Nivelir-L and Napryazhenie-L are different satellites:-
Quote
1.3. В целях расширения рынка сбыта выпускаемых приборов проводится согласование
протоколов разрешённого применения на применение приборов на КА «Спектр-РГ», «Нивелир-Л», «Напряжение-Л», «Резонанс», 14Ф01.
http://www.geofizika-cosmos.ru/assets/files/otchyotnost/godovoj-otchet-2013.pdf

Just to confirm Mr. Pillet’s information that 14Ф150 was a payload for a Soyuz rocket, comes from TSENKI procurement plan of 2015:-
Quote
Дооборудование СК 17П32-С4 под КА 14Ф150
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/223/plan/public/download/download.html?id=1677613 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26990.msg1339253#msg1339253

Also possibly the connection with Lavochkin can be found from this entry in Progress procurement plan:-
Quote
Изготовление и поставка модулей ХП-М, ЦСВВ, ЗУ для аппаратуры МКА-ФКИ

As to its function, the only piece of information is this:-
Quote
4 ЦНИИ МО РФ совместно с кооперацией подготовлена и представлена заказчику тематическая карточка на проведение базовой НИР «Нивелир-П» в 2014- 2015 годы «Комплексные исследования путей создания многоярусной космиче- ской системы мониторинга геодезических параметров Земли в интересах обеспечения стратегических сил и высокоточного оружия. Экспериментальная отработка ключевых элементов системы».
http://www.glonass-center.ru/aboutIAC/Report%20by%20Kosenko%20Zvonar_3.pdf

Is it possible there are two Nivelir projects?
« Last Edit: 06/25/2017 09:19 AM by Stan Black »

Online Liss

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #54 on: 06/25/2017 10:50 AM »
fairing serial is 98 KS 1000-0 Launcher serial is No. 78072003
Payload is called Nivelir-ZU No.1 (14F150)

http://russianspaceweb.com/napryazhenie.html
Quote
...
The Nivelir project reaches launch pad?

The Russian government has released very little information about the upcoming flight, but it appears that it might be carrying the first of several 14F150 Napryazhenie geodetic satellites developed within the Nivelir-ZU project. The Russian word "napryazhenie" stands for voltage, while "nivelir" means level.
...

‘ZU’ is a component?

From Progress procurement plan of 2013 there are four entries:-
Quote
Поставка ЭРИ ОП и ЭРИ ИП в обеспечение комплектования ЗУ ОКР «Нивелир»
Изготовление и поставка модулей ЗУ для изделия 14Ф150 (ОКР «Нивелир-ЗУ»)
Поставка ЭРИ ИП в обеспечение омплектования ЗУ для ЭО КА «Напряжение»
Изготовление и поставка модулей ЗУ для ЭО КА «Напряжение»
ОКР - опытно-конструкторские работы
КА is the abbreviation for satellite.

‘Nivelir-ZU’ is the name of the work, not the satellite?

In 2014:-
Quote
Поставка модулей ХП-М, ЦСВВ, ЗУ в обеспечение комплектования ОКР «Нивелир-Л-ЗУ»
Поставка ЭРИ ОП и ЭРИ ИП в обеспечение комплектования ЗУ ОКР «Нивелир»
Поставка ЭРИ ИП в обеспечение комплектования ЗУ для ЭО КА «Напряжение»

From 2015:-
Quote
Модули ХП-М, ЦСВВ, ЗУ для изделия КА 14Ф155
Поставка модулей ХП-М, ЗУ, ЦСВВ для образца технологического блока ЗУ для стенда КА 14Ф150
In my ineducated opinion, ХП-М, ЦСВВ, ЗУ modules are some low-level electronic components within ЗУ block which probably means запоминающее устройство (memory unit) and as such exists in different configurations within many spacecraft and ground support equipment items.
So it doesn't make sense to think that Nivelir-ZU may be a spacecraft name or a project name. Judging from the quotes above, it can me a name for a very small work of the larger Nivelir project. And NPP OPTEKS (Being a subsidiary of RKTs Progress) orders this ЗУ block to use in a larger assembly (maybe onboard computer or control system) to be delivered to a producer of a spacecraft.
« Last Edit: 06/25/2017 03:23 PM by Liss »
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #55 on: 06/25/2017 04:17 PM »
fairing serial is 98 KS 1000-0 Launcher serial is No. 78072003
Payload is called Nivelir-ZU No.1 (14F150)

http://russianspaceweb.com/napryazhenie.html
Quote
...
The Nivelir project reaches launch pad?

The Russian government has released very little information about the upcoming flight, but it appears that it might be carrying the first of several 14F150 Napryazhenie geodetic satellites developed within the Nivelir-ZU project. The Russian word "napryazhenie" stands for voltage, while "nivelir" means level.
...

‘ZU’ is a component?

From Progress procurement plan of 2013 there are four entries:-
Quote
Поставка ЭРИ ОП и ЭРИ ИП в обеспечение комплектования ЗУ ОКР «Нивелир»
Изготовление и поставка модулей ЗУ для изделия 14Ф150 (ОКР «Нивелир-ЗУ»)
Поставка ЭРИ ИП в обеспечение омплектования ЗУ для ЭО КА «Напряжение»
Изготовление и поставка модулей ЗУ для ЭО КА «Напряжение»
ОКР - опытно-конструкторские работы
КА is the abbreviation for satellite.

‘Nivelir-ZU’ is the name of the work, not the satellite?

In 2014:-
Quote
Поставка модулей ХП-М, ЦСВВ, ЗУ в обеспечение комплектования ОКР «Нивелир-Л-ЗУ»
Поставка ЭРИ ОП и ЭРИ ИП в обеспечение комплектования ЗУ ОКР «Нивелир»
Поставка ЭРИ ИП в обеспечение комплектования ЗУ для ЭО КА «Напряжение»

From 2015:-
Quote
Модули ХП-М, ЦСВВ, ЗУ для изделия КА 14Ф155
Поставка модулей ХП-М, ЗУ, ЦСВВ для образца технологического блока ЗУ для стенда КА 14Ф150

Progress procurement plans can be found here:-
http://www.samspace.ru/zakupki/plany_zakupok/

Further indication Nivelir-L and Napryazhenie-L are different satellites:-
Quote
1.3. В целях расширения рынка сбыта выпускаемых приборов проводится согласование
протоколов разрешённого применения на применение приборов на КА «Спектр-РГ», «Нивелир-Л», «Напряжение-Л», «Резонанс», 14Ф01.
http://www.geofizika-cosmos.ru/assets/files/otchyotnost/godovoj-otchet-2013.pdf

Just to confirm Mr. Pillet’s information that 14Ф150 was a payload for a Soyuz rocket, comes from TSENKI procurement plan of 2015:-
Quote
Дооборудование СК 17П32-С4 под КА 14Ф150
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/223/plan/public/download/download.html?id=1677613 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26990.msg1339253#msg1339253

Also possibly the connection with Lavochkin can be found from this entry in Progress procurement plan:-
Quote
Изготовление и поставка модулей ХП-М, ЦСВВ, ЗУ для аппаратуры МКА-ФКИ

As to its function, the only piece of information is this:-
Quote
4 ЦНИИ МО РФ совместно с кооперацией подготовлена и представлена заказчику тематическая карточка на проведение базовой НИР «Нивелир-П» в 2014- 2015 годы «Комплексные исследования путей создания многоярусной космиче- ской системы мониторинга геодезических параметров Земли в интересах обеспечения стратегических сил и высокоточного оружия. Экспериментальная отработка ключевых элементов системы».
http://www.glonass-center.ru/aboutIAC/Report%20by%20Kosenko%20Zvonar_3.pdf

Is it possible there are two Nivelir projects?
yes.
Nivelir-ZU (RKTs Progress with NPO Lavochkin) and Nivelir-MNK-OZS (ISS Reshetnev) are the two known projects at this time although a third project via RKK Energia is hinted in documentation from time to time.
http://russianspaceweb.com/napryazhenie.html
« Last Edit: 06/25/2017 04:19 PM by russianhalo117 »

Online Liss

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #56 on: 06/25/2017 05:06 PM »
http://www.glonass-center.ru/aboutIAC/Report%20by%20Kosenko%20Zvonar_3.pdf
Is it possible there are two Nivelir projects?
yes.
Nivelir-ZU (RKTs Progress with NPO Lavochkin) and Nivelir-MNK-OZS (ISS Reshetnev) are the two known projects at this time although a third project via RKK Energia is hinted in documentation from time to time.
http://russianspaceweb.com/napryazhenie.html
Well, you would then talk about six projects, namely:
Nivelir
Nivelir-ZU
Nivelir-L
Nivelir-L-ZU
Nivelir-P
Nivelir-MNK-OZS.
It's too many for me -- I persume there is one or two main project(s) and a lot of subprojects, both listed above and still unknown.
Also, I absolutely don't see any relation between Nivelir-L and Napryazheniye-L projects other than NPP OPTEKS ordered some electronic components for both.


This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #57 on: 06/25/2017 11:03 PM »
The NK-33A engine on this launch didn't blow up.

Would it be correct to say that the refurbishments on these old NK-33's appear to have been more successful than Aerojet's modifications of the engines purchased from the same stock to create their AJ-26's?

Or is it too soon/too small a sample to draw definitive conclusions?
« Last Edit: 06/25/2017 11:04 PM by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline edkyle99

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #58 on: 06/26/2017 03:15 AM »
The NK-33A engine on this launch didn't blow up.

Would it be correct to say that the refurbishments on these old NK-33's appear to have been more successful than Aerojet's modifications of the engines purchased from the same stock to create their AJ-26's?

Or is it too soon/too small a sample to draw definitive conclusions?
NK-33/AJ-26 didn't blow up during the first four Antares launches either, so too soon to say.

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Offline Alter Sachse

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Re: Kosmos 2519 - Soyuz-2.1v/Volga - Plesetsk - June 23, 2017
« Reply #59 on: 06/26/2017 10:38 AM »
Kosmos 2519 98.05 97.97 654 669
Resurs-O1     98.05 97.98 661 663 (launched 4.11.1994)
Almost the same orbit ...
Could it be optical reconnaissance?

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