The proposal is that talk of "Raptor Upper Stage" be eliminated from any thread not dealing with "Raptor Upper Stage". So threads like those dealing with generic FH updates or discussion should have no posts regarding "Raptor Upper Stage". And that goes for any other generic pre existing threads. Also, new threads such as NASA's lunar RFI should have no discussion of "Raptor Upper Stage" since that is not in Spacex's plans. If you want to talk about "Raptor Upper Stage" wrt to another topic, then make a new thread
Quote from: Jim on 05/03/2017 05:55 pmThe proposal is that talk of "Raptor Upper Stage" be eliminated from any thread not dealing with "Raptor Upper Stage". So threads like those dealing with generic FH updates or discussion should have no posts regarding "Raptor Upper Stage". And that goes for any other generic pre existing threads. Also, new threads such as NASA's lunar RFI should have no discussion of "Raptor Upper Stage" since that is not in Spacex's plans. If you want to talk about "Raptor Upper Stage" wrt to another topic, then make a new threadMy only question is how do you know it is not in their plans? If Musk's update in 6 weeks time states that it IS in their plans, then what? Now, you might well have insight into information directly from SpaceX which others don't have, in which case the matter would be settled. But I don't think you have claimed that, have you?
If Musk's update in 6 weeks time states that it IS in their plans, then what?
Quote from: M.E.T. on 05/03/2017 05:59 pmIf Musk's update in 6 weeks time states that it IS in their plans, then what?Then.... there's this great thread to discuss it?
Quote from: abaddon on 05/03/2017 07:36 pmQuote from: M.E.T. on 05/03/2017 05:59 pmIf Musk's update in 6 weeks time states that it IS in their plans, then what?Then.... there's this great thread to discuss it?What event is going to be held around the middle of June?
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/858908487018926080Erik Cleven: I really enjoyed watching it! Can we expect an update on the ITS soon? Curious to learn more about the architecture and new developments.Elon: Yeah, will probably publish an update in six weeks or so
Can you perhaps explain (at least generally) why you're so certain a Raptor US for F9/FH is completely out of the question? Because the AF Press Release from last January seemed really specific.
I think the RUS [1] is polluting a lot of otherwise fairly nonwandery[2] threads. Clearly at least one other user does too, so they started this most meta of meta threads.How about this. When you see a RUS[1] post, don't let it bite you. Press the report to mod button. If you're feeling particularly helpful, include the thread number you think it belongs in (I just did a quick boo and didn't see a thread in the 19 seconds I searched or else I would have put it here). Mods will remove or delete.Because yeah. Also, don't start metathreads like this please... no matter how vexed you are. Or at least put it in the right section! http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=50.0 (the NSF internal help/questions section) Because, believe it or not, not every thread belongs in SpaceX general. I know, right? I might turn this thread into the actual thread we discuss RUS in from now on if I can't find a better one ... Jim'll LOVE it that HIS post is the thread starter (just wait till I edit it... LOL)1 - no, not Rodents of Unusual Size2 - what do you mean that's not a word?
2 - what do you mean that's not a word?
I might turn this thread into the actual thread we discuss RUS in from now on if I can't find a better one ... Jim'll LOVE it that HIS post is the thread starter (just wait till I edit it... LOL)
I've been converted to the "no raptor upper stage on falcon family" belief.It does provide some benifit, before ITS comes online.
But once ITS comes online it's entirely obsolite, which puts a cap on how much it can earn for SpaceX over what the Mvac stage can. And it's pretty clear that how much it can earn is less than how much it would cost to develop and build that stage
Quote from: rakaydos on 05/03/2017 09:18 pmI've been converted to the "no raptor upper stage on falcon family" belief.It does provide some benifit, before ITS comes online.It's not known when ITS would come online. 2022, say? That's 5 years from now.QuoteBut once ITS comes online it's entirely obsolite, which puts a cap on how much it can earn for SpaceX over what the Mvac stage can. And it's pretty clear that how much it can earn is less than how much it would cost to develop and build that stageA large fraction of the cost is in developing the engine, and know what? SpaceX is _already_ developing this engine. They already spending these money, they can not be "saved".Also, with Raptor upper stage, they can drop MVac (which is "three times more expensive than sea-level Merlins").
Quote from: gospacex on 05/04/2017 08:20 amQuote from: rakaydos on 05/03/2017 09:18 pmI've been converted to the "no raptor upper stage on falcon family" belief.It does provide some benifit, before ITS comes online.It's not known when ITS would come online. 2022, say? That's 5 years from now.QuoteBut once ITS comes online it's entirely obsolite, which puts a cap on how much it can earn for SpaceX over what the Mvac stage can. And it's pretty clear that how much it can earn is less than how much it would cost to develop and build that stageA large fraction of the cost is in developing the engine, and know what? SpaceX is _already_ developing this engine. They already spending these money, they can not be "saved".Also, with Raptor upper stage, they can drop MVac (which is "three times more expensive than sea-level Merlins").Yes, yes, "It wont cost THAT much to make" and "It does things Falcon heavy cant now." I get that.The problem is that the "things it does that falcon cant" isnt big enough to cover even "Doesnt cost that much," especially since infrastructure changes (fuel lines on the erector, ect) actually would -reduce- the number of paying flights compared to a kerlox-only falcon family.ITS cant use the falcon pads anyway, so there's no reason to shut down the falcon pads to add methlox.