Author Topic: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat  (Read 7015 times)

Offline lcasv

Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #40 on: 06/07/2017 01:52 PM »
Who knows what happen with astronaut's health after 500 day in zero gravity ?
No one, just guessing...

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #41 on: 06/09/2017 04:46 PM »
Who knows what happen with astronaut's health after 500 day in zero gravity ?
No one, just guessing...

No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Ten_longest_human_space_flights
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline RonM

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Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #42 on: 06/09/2017 05:15 PM »
Who knows what happen with astronaut's health after 500 day in zero gravity ?
No one, just guessing...

No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Ten_longest_human_space_flights

All of those are less than 500 days. So the answer is no one has done the research.

Offline TakeOff

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Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #43 on: 06/09/2017 11:43 PM »
Who knows what happen with astronaut's health after 500 day in zero gravity ?
No one, just guessing...

No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Ten_longest_human_space_flights

All of those are less than 500 days. So the answer is no one has done the research.
True. After 500 days maybe the adaptation is complete and the potential for negative health risks completely disappears. This is impossible to figure out theoretically. It has to be done in order to find out. But it should of course not be done Dr. Mengele style, but for a purpose that makes the risk of discovering the unknown worthwhile. Like spending the time on the Moon or Mars or Mars' moons. Not spending it in a nowhere Gateway.

Offline Paul451

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Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #44 on: 06/10/2017 01:00 PM »
But it should of course not be done Dr. Mengele style, but for a purpose that makes the risk of discovering the unknown worthwhile. Like spending the time on the Moon or Mars or Mars' moons. Not spending it in a nowhere Gateway.

So a space-station is like Auschwitz?

"Hyperbole. Not just for trajectories."

Offline TakeOff

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Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #45 on: 06/12/2017 01:21 PM »
But it should of course not be done Dr. Mengele style, but for a purpose that makes the risk of discovering the unknown worthwhile. Like spending the time on the Moon or Mars or Mars' moons. Not spending it in a nowhere Gateway.

So a space-station is like Auschwitz?

"Hyperbole. Not just for trajectories."
A space station that "tries out" how long humans can survive in it, really is! That's the profit from torturing people. It is completely different to send a crew out on a dangerous exploration mission that would return great discoveries if it works. The maximum potential loss is the same in both cases. The difference is that one of the cases has a possible upside. The other does not. It is a failure of design, and of humanity, to pick the latter.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #46 on: 06/12/2017 02:20 PM »
Who knows what happen with astronaut's health after 500 day in zero gravity ?
No one, just guessing...

No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Ten_longest_human_space_flights

All of those are less than 500 days. So the answer is no one has done the research.

Those are just single stays. For cumulative time in space, there are currently 19 people over 500 days (soon to be 20 with Peggy Whitson becoming the first woman to reach that mark), the current record holder is Gennady Padalka, who has spent 878 days in space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Total_time_in_space
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline TakeOff

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Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #47 on: 06/12/2017 03:21 PM »
Who knows what happen with astronaut's health after 500 day in zero gravity ?
No one, just guessing...

No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Ten_longest_human_space_flights

All of those are less than 500 days. So the answer is no one has done the research.

Those are just single stays. For cumulative time in space, there are currently 19 people over 500 days (soon to be 20 with Peggy Whitson becoming the first woman to reach that mark), the current record holder is Gennady Padalka, who has spent 878 days in space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Total_time_in_space
That's a Mars back and forth trip time.
Did that make Gennady Padalka lame, blind and mad? Because that is what the space hypochondriacs claim that he must be.

Online Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #48 on: 06/12/2017 03:51 PM »
Speaking as someone who has studied such "space hypochondriacs" issues formally, including the research at CERN on human models, and also active studies by SC from Mercury to past Pluto, I can tell you that not a one of them when asked would travel to Mars.

Offline RonM

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Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #49 on: 06/12/2017 05:45 PM »
Who knows what happen with astronaut's health after 500 day in zero gravity ?
No one, just guessing...

No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Ten_longest_human_space_flights

All of those are less than 500 days. So the answer is no one has done the research.

Those are just single stays. For cumulative time in space, there are currently 19 people over 500 days (soon to be 20 with Peggy Whitson becoming the first woman to reach that mark), the current record holder is Gennady Padalka, who has spent 878 days in space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Total_time_in_space

I knew someone would bring this up.  ::)

The question about adverse medical effects is continous time in less than Earth gravity. Obviously, cumulative time includes long periods on Earth between missions giving the body a chance to recover.

We only have data for Earth and microgravity with stays of less than 500 days. No data on lunar or Mars gravity.

Online Aussie_Space_Nut

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Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #50 on: 06/13/2017 10:23 AM »

Offline RDoc

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Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #51 on: 09/12/2017 06:27 PM »
I'm also one who is very doubtful about long term <1.0G human viability, however, I think it should be tested.

To start with, it would seem very useful to try establishing a long term mouse/rat/etc. colony on the ISS. I realize there are serious logistical issues with this, but we really do need to know more about this stuff.

It would be even more useful to have such colonies in a centrifuge so we could see what partial G does.

The notion that we should just go to Mars or the Moon and see what happens with human pregnancy seems like a very bad idea.

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #52 on: 09/13/2017 01:54 AM »
I think partial g research is something that needs to be looked into which is one reason I was really hyped about the Nautilus-X concept.
Also why I favor the SLS derived DSH as the larger diameter would allow for a larger centrifuge for exercising in or small animals could be placed in and observed.
« Last Edit: 09/13/2017 01:55 AM by Patchouli »

Offline dwheeler

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Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #53 on: 09/13/2017 04:29 AM »
I'm also one who is very doubtful about long term <1.0G human viability, however, I think it should be tested.

To start with, it would seem very useful to try establishing a long term mouse/rat/etc. colony on the ISS. I realize there are serious logistical issues with this, but we really do need to know more about this stuff.

It would be even more useful to have such colonies in a centrifuge so we could see what partial G does.

The notion that we should just go to Mars or the Moon and see what happens with human pregnancy seems like a very bad idea.

The ISS has such a facility already... the JAXA Mouse Habitat Unit or MHU. (http://spaceflight101.com/iss/mouse-habitat-experiment/). I believe it was installed in 2015 but I don't think the first mice arrived until CRS-12 just last month.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/08/16/station-crew-captures-dragon-supply-ship-gets-early-start-on-unpacking/

Quote
Twenty mice riding inside Dragon will be examined after their return to the ground to aid researchers studying how spaceflight affects vision and movement.

Quote
The mice will come back to Earth inside the Dragon capsule alive, and SpaceX will hand over their transporters to scientists upon return to port in Southern California.

From what I could tell in that article the centrifuge capability of the MHU wasn't needed for these particular experiments.

But anyways... a very small step in the right direction. Hopefully they have some experiments lined up that will use the centrifuge soon.

Online tdperk

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Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #54 on: 09/14/2017 03:01 PM »
I'm curious what you think the threshold is then? We have strong evidence that long term zero-gravity exposure is harmful long-term in spite of regular exercise, and three centuries of biology research will tell you these effects always exist on a sliding scale.

Actually it will show that for many things there is a threshold below which there are no discernible consequences.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Zero gravity and Deep Space Habitat
« Reply #55 on: 09/14/2017 03:39 PM »
I'm also one who is very doubtful about long term <1.0G human viability, however, I think it should be tested.

To start with, it would seem very useful to try establishing a long term mouse/rat/etc. colony on the ISS. I realize there are serious logistical issues with this, but we really do need to know more about this stuff.

It would be even more useful to have such colonies in a centrifuge so we could see what partial G does.

The notion that we should just go to Mars or the Moon and see what happens with human pregnancy seems like a very bad idea.

The ISS has such a facility already... the JAXA Mouse Habitat Unit or MHU. (http://spaceflight101.com/iss/mouse-habitat-experiment/). I believe it was installed in 2015 but I don't think the first mice arrived until CRS-12 just last month.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/08/16/station-crew-captures-dragon-supply-ship-gets-early-start-on-unpacking/

Quote
Twenty mice riding inside Dragon will be examined after their return to the ground to aid researchers studying how spaceflight affects vision and movement.

Quote
The mice will come back to Earth inside the Dragon capsule alive, and SpaceX will hand over their transporters to scientists upon return to port in Southern California.

From what I could tell in that article the centrifuge capability of the MHU wasn't needed for these particular experiments.

But anyways... a very small step in the right direction. Hopefully they have some experiments lined up that will use the centrifuge soon.

I think the first mice to live in JAXA's MHU were delivered on CRS-9 last year. IIRC CRS-4 was the first SpaceX delivery of mice to the ISS but I don't think they were in the MHU.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

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