Quote from: M.E.T. on 09/13/2017 06:41 amSilly question perhaps, but do they mean 7m in length or 7m diameter?It's length. Blue Origin's graphic clearly shows same width as rocket, just like previous 5.4m fairing.
Silly question perhaps, but do they mean 7m in length or 7m diameter?
Is the cost of a fairing mainly in the labor and tooling needed to make it or the material used to make it? A 7 meter fairing, while much larger, may not cost that much more to make than a 5 meter fairing.
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 09/13/2017 03:56 amNot needing to make satellite as compact for launch should add significant savings to build cost. A statement often spoken yet not proven, almost bordering on wishful thinking. But I hope you are right.
Not needing to make satellite as compact for launch should add significant savings to build cost.
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 09/13/2017 06:39 amBlue think it is a valid point, but comsat owners want redundant LVs. They would only build satellite for NG if there is alternative LV with 7m fairing.Would 9m do?
Blue think it is a valid point, but comsat owners want redundant LVs. They would only build satellite for NG if there is alternative LV with 7m fairing.
Quote from: notsorandom on 09/13/2017 01:38 pmIs the cost of a fairing mainly in the labor and tooling needed to make it or the material used to make it? A 7 meter fairing, while much larger, may not cost that much more to make than a 5 meter fairing.This fantasy where larger items don't cost much more (and the related one where larger payloads will somehow be cheaper) needs to end.Things don't become cheaper because you scale them up. They become cheaper through mass production. And even then you eventually run into raw material costs.
Presumably only if the 9m vehicle you are thinking of ... actually has a fairing...
Do we know the dimensions of the OneWeb constellation satellites? How many of them could fit in the 7m fairing?
Those five launches could accommodate as many as 400 satellites, OneWeb executive chairman Greg Wyler told The Wall Street Journal.
Quote from: 2552 on 09/13/2017 05:24 pmDo we know the dimensions of the OneWeb constellation satellites? How many of them could fit in the 7m fairing?80 of OneWebs per the five-launch announcement; Soyuz is launching 32-36 per flight.QuoteThose five launches could accommodate as many as 400 satellites, OneWeb executive chairman Greg Wyler told The Wall Street Journal.https://www.geekwire.com/2017/jeff-bezos-oneweb-satellite-blue-origin-new-glenn/
Quote from: Lars-J on 09/13/2017 03:56 pmQuote from: notsorandom on 09/13/2017 01:38 pmIs the cost of a fairing mainly in the labor and tooling needed to make it or the material used to make it? A 7 meter fairing, while much larger, may not cost that much more to make than a 5 meter fairing.This fantasy where larger items don't cost much more (and the related one where larger payloads will somehow be cheaper) needs to end.Things don't become cheaper because you scale them up. They become cheaper through mass production. And even then you eventually run into raw material costs.A 7 m fairing will cost about twice as much as a 5 m fairing, and mass producing it won't help much since most of the cost is the raw composite material.
This launcher already has a very large expendable stage, and now much larger fairing than any competitor... (Fairings aren't cheap, just as SpaceX) This adds to the costs of the launcher. So unless they really do have lots of constellation launches, this thing is going to be way over sized for almost any other payload than a LEO space station. Manufacturing 7m fairings for payloads that need much less is a big waste.But they could certainly pull it off... Eventually launching large pieces or bulk launches will IMO be the majority of launches, so perhaps he is timing this right after all. The future will tell...
Quote from: Lars-J on 09/13/2017 03:17 amThis launcher already has a very large expendable stage, and now much larger fairing than any competitor... (Fairings aren't cheap, just as SpaceX) This adds to the costs of the launcher. So unless they really do have lots of constellation launches, this thing is going to be way over sized for almost any other payload than a LEO space station. Manufacturing 7m fairings for payloads that need much less is a big waste.But they could certainly pull it off... Eventually launching large pieces or bulk launches will IMO be the majority of launches, so perhaps he is timing this right after all. The future will tell... Not a valid comparison. SpaceX needs to lift the fairing, payload adapter and payload rested on the fairing. If Blue does it differently, either through vertical integration or by lifting everything on the adapter and not on the fairing for integration with the second stage, the fairing can be significantly simpler, lighter and cheaper. However, I dont have numbers to do a complete trade-off and SpaceX must have reasons for their practice. But they may not apply for Blue Origin.Also, customer opinion ultimately wins the race. I see no reason to question BOs statement.
....Also, I don't have a good price for a Soyuz launch, but I'm guessing it's in the neighborhood of $60M. So in order to be a good deal at that many satellites, they've got to be talking a price of <$120M for a New Glenn flight in order to start to be tempting to someone like OneWeb. ....
Quote from: AncientU on 09/13/2017 05:49 pmQuote from: 2552 on 09/13/2017 05:24 pmDo we know the dimensions of the OneWeb constellation satellites? How many of them could fit in the 7m fairing?80 of OneWebs per the five-launch announcement; Soyuz is launching 32-36 per flight.QuoteThose five launches could accommodate as many as 400 satellites, OneWeb executive chairman Greg Wyler told The Wall Street Journal.https://www.geekwire.com/2017/jeff-bezos-oneweb-satellite-blue-origin-new-glenn/Interesting. That means that they're only using 1/3-1/2 the mass capacity of New Glenn for those launches. Makes sense though--I don't think you'd want to put 1/4 of your constellation up on single launch. That's just tempting fate.Also, I don't have a good price for a Soyuz launch, but I'm guessing it's in the neighborhood of $60M. So in order to be a good deal at that many satellites, they've got to be talking a price of <$120M for a New Glenn flight in order to start to be tempting to someone like OneWeb. ~Jon
Smith: in talks with nat’l security community and NASA on certifying New Glenn for their missions.