Author Topic: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)  (Read 180116 times)

Offline deruch

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #580 on: 09/02/2017 12:25 AM »
And what propulsion tests could SpaceX be up to? Raptor?

Possibly RaptorVAC  upper stage variant development Raptor LCH4 for USAF?

No. Block 5 upper stage, most likely.

e.g. Extended duration loiter for direct GSO insertions.
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline Rogerstigers

Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #581 on: 09/11/2017 05:25 PM »
My latest article regarding SpaceX.  This one reflects on the recent OTV-5 mission, discusses the size of the landed booster, and speaks of the amazing things coming down the line. 

SpaceX and the Scale of Things to Come


I try to write approachable articles that can be enjoyed by non-experts and causal fans while avoiding the hyperbole and outright nonsense that is often exhibited in casual space articles.   

Also, if you missed it, check out my previous article: The SpaceX Steamroller

Offline Lar

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #582 on: 09/11/2017 06:37 PM »
I found this article and its predecessor very accessible, and full of great information that you don't get (or don't get accurately) in a lot of the casual press. These are good articles to share with folks who aren't quite as, should I say, **intense in our fandom**, as we are.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline rpapo

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #583 on: 09/12/2017 10:39 AM »
Nit:
Quote
After exiting most of Earthís atmosphere, the fairing is ejected and the space plane is released to fly on its own power.
An Apollo fanboy . . . fifty years ago.

Offline Req

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #584 on: 09/14/2017 07:31 AM »
FINALLY!  The first stage landing crash video we were promised!  ;D

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/908229340139323392
@elonmusk
Just posted a video https://www.instagram.com/p/BZA0s7EAmF1/

Edit:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/908254739825025025
@elonmusk
High res version at
« Last Edit: 09/14/2017 09:18 AM by Req »

Online woods170

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #585 on: 09/14/2017 08:32 AM »
FINALLY!  The first stage landing crash video we were promised!  ;D

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/908229340139323392
@elonmusk
Just posted a video https://www.instagram.com/p/BZA0s7EAmF1/

Edit:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/908254739825025025
@elonmusk
High res version at

And it is friggin' AWESOME!

Complete with unseen footage of the demise of F9R-Dev1. It somersaulted pretty good before they blew it up. Reminds me of how Ariane 501 met it's end.
Also plenty of different-angle views of previously seen explosions.
And includes footage of the very first attempt to land the F9 first stage in the ocean. Remember, the one that spun out of control and impacted hard? That one. Spectacular explosion on the ocean surface.
And that "dancing stage" is downright freaky to witness.

Some screenshots below.
« Last Edit: 09/14/2017 09:50 AM by woods170 »

Online zack

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #586 on: 09/14/2017 09:05 AM »
I think Instagram's one minute video limit cut the video short...  :'(

Offline Req

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #587 on: 09/28/2017 06:47 PM »
https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/913473999107014656

@SpaceX
Nine years ago today, Falcon 1 became the first privately developed liquid fuel rocket to orbit Earth.
http://www.spacex.com/gallery/2008-0#slide-1

Edit to add:
It is truly inspiring how far SpaceX has come in 9 years, SpaceX/Musk Time Dilationô included.
« Last Edit: 09/28/2017 07:33 PM by Req »

Offline Norm38

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #588 on: 10/13/2017 04:23 AM »
When do they expect to fly Block 5?  I've lost track.

Offline old_sellsword

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #589 on: 10/13/2017 04:27 AM »
When do they expect to fly Block 5?  I've lost track.

Possibly by the end of the year, and if not, then definitely early next year. We donít have a solid date, mission, or serial number though, hence the ambiguity.

Offline Geron

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #590 on: 10/13/2017 05:37 PM »
Shotwell stated that first Block 5 flight will be on the Demo 1 mission which is currently scheduled for March of 2018. The mission was originally scheduled towards the end of 2017 but has been pushed back.

Offline old_sellsword

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #591 on: 10/13/2017 05:45 PM »
Shotwell stated that first Block 5 flight will be on the Demo 1 mission which is currently scheduled for March of 2018. The mission was originally scheduled towards the end of 2017 but has been pushed back.

Block 5 first stages will be flying well in advance of DM-1. Where is this Shotwell quote?

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #592 on: 10/13/2017 06:50 PM »
When do they expect to fly Block 5?  I've lost track.

Possibly by the end of the year, and if not, then definitely early next year. We donít have a solid date, mission, or serial number though, hence the ambiguity.

We will be getting close when we see a tease on Elonís Instagram.  (I hope itís really soon)
Excited to be finally into the first Falcon Heavy flow, we are getting so close!

Offline cambrianera

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #593 on: 10/14/2017 08:55 AM »
Shotwell stated that first Block 5 flight will be on the Demo 1 mission which is currently scheduled for March of 2018. The mission was originally scheduled towards the end of 2017 but has been pushed back.

Block 5 first stages will be flying well in advance of DM-1. Where is this Shotwell quote?
Not Shotwell quote, but reference here:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/08/falcon-9-block-4-debut-success-dragon-station-berthing/
Oh to be young again. . .

Offline old_sellsword

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General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #594 on: 10/14/2017 04:04 PM »
Shotwell stated that first Block 5 flight will be on the Demo 1 mission which is currently scheduled for March of 2018. The mission was originally scheduled towards the end of 2017 but has been pushed back.

Block 5 first stages will be flying well in advance of DM-1. Where is this Shotwell quote?
Not Shotwell quote, but reference here:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/08/falcon-9-block-4-debut-success-dragon-station-berthing/

NASA specifically requested not to be the first flight of Block 5, and the first Block 5 S1 will be off the production line well before DM-1 eventually rolls around.

Edit: Currently looking for the document that specifies NASA not wanting the first Block 5.
« Last Edit: 10/14/2017 04:05 PM by old_sellsword »

Offline gongora

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #595 on: 10/14/2017 04:42 PM »
Edit: Currently looking for the document that specifies NASA not wanting the first Block 5.

That was for the TESS launch, mentioned in the annual GAO assessment of NASA projects.

Offline old_sellsword

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #596 on: 10/14/2017 04:52 PM »
Edit: Currently looking for the document that specifies NASA not wanting the first Block 5.

That was for the TESS launch, mentioned in the annual GAO assessment of NASA projects.

Right, thanks. Here's the full quote:

Quote
NASA has renegotiated its launch contract with SpaceX to account for these delays. SpaceX continues to upgrade the Falcon 9 and, as part of the negotiation process, NASA gained the right not to be the first launch on the planned Block 5 version of the vehicle.

Offline Geron

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #597 on: 10/15/2017 12:11 AM »
Edit: Currently looking for the document that specifies NASA not wanting the first Block 5.

That was for the TESS launch, mentioned in the annual GAO assessment of NASA projects.

Right, thanks. Here's the full quote:

Quote
NASA has renegotiated its launch contract with SpaceX to account for these delays. SpaceX continues to upgrade the Falcon 9 and, as part of the negotiation process, NASA gained the right not to be the first launch on the planned Block 5 version of the vehicle.

Shotwell in her SpaceShow interview with David Livingston states that for Block 5 they redesigned "major" parts of the rocket for block 5 and qualified the new parts to much longer durations/cycles.

I don't think any commercial customer is going to want to fly on such a major redesign. Demo 1 is uncrewed so if it blows up its not that big of a deal. I think that that is why they are waiting for Demo 1. Does that make sense?

Offline Req

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #598 on: 10/15/2017 12:16 AM »
Edit: Currently looking for the document that specifies NASA not wanting the first Block 5.

That was for the TESS launch, mentioned in the annual GAO assessment of NASA projects.

Right, thanks. Here's the full quote:

Quote
NASA has renegotiated its launch contract with SpaceX to account for these delays. SpaceX continues to upgrade the Falcon 9 and, as part of the negotiation process, NASA gained the right not to be the first launch on the planned Block 5 version of the vehicle.

Shotwell in her SpaceShow interview with David Livingston states that for Block 5 they redesigned "major" parts of the rocket for block 5 and qualified the new parts to much longer durations/cycles.

I don't think any commercial customer is going to want to fly on such a major redesign. Demo 1 is uncrewed so if it blows up its not that big of a deal. I think that that is why they are waiting for Demo 1. Does that make sense?

No, that doesn't make sense, because there's a lot more riding on commercial crew than on anything else at the moment.  SpaceX would sooner launch a wheel of cheese[edit - if there was any concern at all].  Beyond that, their commercial customers have been willing to take rides on previously flown boosters before any type of demo launch of one of those.
« Last Edit: 10/15/2017 12:25 AM by Req »

Offline Geron

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #599 on: 10/15/2017 12:26 AM »
Contractually whats the financial penalty if Demo1 doesn't make it to orbit?

Is it greater or less than penalty if expensive NRO, NASA, or a bunch of commercial birds don't make it to orbit?

If SpaceX wanted to play it safe all the time they would not be constantly upgrading everything. These upgrades are great but they come with some risk.

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