Author Topic: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)  (Read 162854 times)

Offline t43562

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #680 on: 08/31/2017 11:13 PM »
Quote
A lot of people say kind things about me but it's not really an intellectual issue quite frankly but a matter a of being bold enough to challenge what people tell you.  If you think something can be done, well ... go away and work it out.
:-)
« Last Edit: 09/01/2017 01:26 PM by t43562 »

Offline CrewtaiL

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #681 on: 09/03/2017 11:57 AM »
This is a much better interview, I feel. He's a pretty interesting character


Offline JCRM

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #682 on: 09/13/2017 09:52 AM »
Of the 13 patents REL applied for just under 4 years ago (November 2013) a fifth has been granted: EP3055511 "rotational machine" which is a design for scavenging helium that leaks through the shaft seals on the various turbines.
I would imagine the better the seals the smaller such a device can be, leaving the task of optimising seal weight against scavenger weight against top-up weight.

Offline Ravenger

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #683 on: 09/14/2017 06:58 PM »
Here's a great animated video I found which goes into how both the Falcon 9 and Skylon (if it's ever built that is!) solve issues of reusability.

Stan Draws Spaceships Episode 2 Part 2: Falcon and Skylon


It's probably the best simplified explanation I've seen of how both launch systems work from a reusability point of view.

Offline john smith 19

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #684 on: 09/18/2017 07:30 AM »
I  came across this analysis of the effect of very large numbers of Skylon flights on the atmosphere for an SPS building programme.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2016EF000399/full

Most of them are less than 1/10 that due to natural variation, despite a total of 10^5 launches.

What I'm not clear about is wheather this involves the initial combustor design or the one they developed as part of the LAPCAT prgramme, whose results were simulated by their Italian partners as being 1% of the NOX levels of a conventional system.
"Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry Spencer 1/28/11  Averse to bold? You must be in marketing."It's all in the sequencing" K. Mattingly.  STS-Keeping most of the stakeholders happy most of the time.

Offline JCRM

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #685 on: 09/20/2017 02:02 AM »


What I'm not clear about is wheather this involves the initial combustor design or the one they developed as part of the LAPCAT prgramme, whose results were simulated by their Italian partners as being 1% of the NOX levels of a conventional system.

Quote from: Global atmospheric response to emissions from a proposed reusable space launch system
Detailed estimates of the NOX emissions have not yet been calculated by the rocket designers [R. Varvill, 2015, personal communication]. For this study, reliable estimates of NOX emissions from jet and rocket engines are scaled to the Skylon vehicle with the caveat that our estimates have high uncertainty. Lee et al. [2010], using the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) emissions databank
While the study is after the A2 work, it does not consider it.
I'm not certain whether the Scimitar NOx optimisations would apply to the SABRE engine.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #686 on: 09/20/2017 10:20 AM »
Quote
Reaction Engines Ltd‏ @ReactionEngines 39m39 minutes ago

Work progressing three months on from #SABRETF1 ground breaking @WestcottVP, an impressive 350m of embankment to complete!

https://twitter.com/ReactionEngines/status/910438179261620224

Offline JCRM

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #687 on: 09/21/2017 10:02 AM »
Well, the weather looks very British... I hope they're doing a time-lapse, but doubt it.

I like the way the Stan Draws' animation manages to convey the inlets pointing into the direction of travel.

Given the furore over the BAe linkup, and it dooming SABRE to military applications I'm surprised the 2014 linkup with Bayern-Chemie (for intakes and ramjets) hasn't been mentioned here, despite the reference in REL's 2015 progress update.

Offline john smith 19

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #688 on: 09/21/2017 11:37 AM »
Quote from: Global atmospheric response to emissions from a proposed reusable space launch system
Detailed estimates of the NOX emissions have not yet been calculated by the rocket designers [R. Varvill, 2015, personal communication]. For this study, reliable estimates of NOX emissions from jet and rocket engines are scaled to the Skylon vehicle with the caveat that our estimates have high uncertainty. Lee et al. [2010], using the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) emissions databank
While the study is after the A2 work, it does not consider it.
I'm not certain whether the Scimitar NOx optimisations would apply to the SABRE engine.
I think it was Richard Varville who mentioned it in a talk that they are planning to incorporate the low NoX design they came up with for LAPCAT in SABRE and Alan Bond said "I'll eat my underpants if it lives up to the low NoX level that the Italian group (U. Pisa?) have calculated."

Until then I was not sure if that was possible but they don't seem to have any doubts it is.
"Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry Spencer 1/28/11  Averse to bold? You must be in marketing."It's all in the sequencing" K. Mattingly.  STS-Keeping most of the stakeholders happy most of the time.


Offline JCRM

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #690 on: 09/25/2017 12:29 PM »
Interesting that it repeats the new precooler time of 1/20th of a second instead of 1/100th of a second.

I take it this is the same money as
A large amount of money is being made available by the US DoD for testing the precooler in a hypersonic wind tunnel.
This is the main bit of audio (59MB):
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwJNUxZZ7qItNWpmS3RiX2FKWG8

I had to start recording again during questions:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwJNUxZZ7qItMWRTMDBMelJyRlU

It's a little tricky to dig out the image:
« Last Edit: 09/25/2017 02:42 PM by JCRM »

Offline Star One

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #691 on: 09/25/2017 11:10 PM »
Reaction Engines now under contract with DARPA!

https://www.reactionengines.co.uk/reaction-engines-awarded-darpa-contract-to-perform-high-temperature-testing-of-the-sabre-precooler/

Yet more development work I suspect not unrelated to the so called SR-72 amongst other things.

Offline JCRM

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #692 on: 09/26/2017 12:30 AM »
Reaction Engines now under contract with DARPA!

https://www.reactionengines.co.uk/reaction-engines-awarded-darpa-contract-to-perform-high-temperature-testing-of-the-sabre-precooler/

Yet more development work I suspect not unrelated to the so called SR-72 amongst other things.
I thought it was phase II of AF161-074: Durable Pre-cooling Heat Exchangers for High Mach Flight, so more testing than development, I think
Quote
Fabricate a scaled prototype of the heat exchanger utilizing the proposed manufacturing approach. Conduct testing in a relevant laboratory environment. Develop and validate performance and lifting models based on the testing. Utilize this information to increase the understanding of how the heat exchanger integrates into a platform or platforms

Offline Star One

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The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #693 on: 09/26/2017 07:39 AM »
Reaction Engines now under contract with DARPA!

https://www.reactionengines.co.uk/reaction-engines-awarded-darpa-contract-to-perform-high-temperature-testing-of-the-sabre-precooler/

Yet more development work I suspect not unrelated to the so called SR-72 amongst other things.
I thought it was phase II of AF161-074: Durable Pre-cooling Heat Exchangers for High Mach Flight, so more testing than development, I think
Quote
Fabricate a scaled prototype of the heat exchanger utilizing the proposed manufacturing approach. Conduct testing in a relevant laboratory environment. Develop and validate performance and lifting models based on the testing. Utilize this information to increase the understanding of how the heat exchanger integrates into a platform or platforms

Well from what LM indicated earlier this year they are looking to getting a demonstrator flying for the program sooner rather than later. And DARPA are involved in those efforts.

Quote
"We've been saying hypersonics is two years away for the last 20 years, but all I can say is the technology is mature and we, along with DARPA and the services, are working hard to get that capability into the hands of our warfighters as soon as possible," Rob Weiss, Lockheed Martin's executive vice president and general manager for Skunk Works, told Aviation Week.

Quote
The advanced aircraft division also said that it was getting close to starting full scale development of a flight research vehicle (FRV) that could be piloted or operated remotely. This FRV is expected to be about the size of an F-22 and use a full combined cycle propulsion system, according to Aviation Week.

Lockheed Martin optimistically plans to fly an FRV in the early 2020s.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a26796/hypersonic-sr-72-aircraft/
« Last Edit: 09/26/2017 07:41 AM by Star One »

Offline Star One

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The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #694 on: 09/27/2017 04:33 PM »
Could I ask because I saw someone else wondering this elsewhere online but are certain aspects of REL’s engine technology classified? I know they’ve had a bit of an unfortunate history with the government classifying their technology in the past.
« Last Edit: 09/27/2017 04:34 PM by Star One »

Offline JCRM

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #695 on: 09/27/2017 10:09 PM »
Could I ask because I saw someone else wondering this elsewhere online but are certain aspects of REL’s engine technology classified? I know they’ve had a bit of an unfortunate history with the government classifying their technology in the past.
As I understand it:
Alan Bond patented his original precooled engine ideas and assigned them to Rolls Royce around 1983-4, at which point the UK government classified them.
Rolls-Royce pulled out of HOTOL, and Bond, Varvill, and Scott-Scott set up REL in 1989.
REL designed SABRE to work around the patents/classification and avoided applying for patents in the hope that they would not be classified again.
The patents were eventually granted in 1991 after a change in government policy set the bar for making secrets higher.
The RB545 details were published by Mark Hempsell in May 1993.
REL relied on keeping the SABRE technology a trade secret, until 2013 when they applied for patents on a number of key factors.

Parts of the work Reaction Engines Inc have done may be covered by ITAR

I am not aware of any aspects of SABRE/Skylon being classified, but if they were, would we know? I think Alan Bond would have complained about it if it had been

Offline Star One

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #696 on: 09/27/2017 10:22 PM »
Could I ask because I saw someone else wondering this elsewhere online but are certain aspects of REL’s engine technology classified? I know they’ve had a bit of an unfortunate history with the government classifying their technology in the past.
As I understand it:
Alan Bond patented his original precooled engine ideas and assigned them to Rolls Royce around 1983-4, at which point the UK government classified them.
Rolls-Royce pulled out of HOTOL, and Bond, Varvill, and Scott-Scott set up REL in 1989.
REL designed SABRE to work around the patents/classification and avoided applying for patents in the hope that they would not be classified again.
The patents were eventually granted in 1991 after a change in government policy set the bar for making secrets higher.
The RB545 details were published by Mark Hempsell in May 1993.
REL relied on keeping the SABRE technology a trade secret, until 2013 when they applied for patents on a number of key factors.

Parts of the work Reaction Engines Inc have done may be covered by ITAR

I am not aware of any aspects of SABRE/Skylon being classified, but if they were, would we know? I think Alan Bond would have complained about it if it had been

I thought things like how they stop the precooler icing up were not publicly known.

Offline JCRM

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #697 on: 09/28/2017 10:23 PM »
REL relied on keeping the SABRE technology a trade secret, until 2013 when they applied for patents on a number of key factors.

I thought things like how they stop the precooler icing up were not publicly known.
It was a closely guarded company secret for a long time. REL entered into the CRADA with USAF in early 2014. REL applied for patents on technologies, including frost control in late 2013.
SABRE4 probably doesn't need frost control.

Offline JCRM

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (6)
« Reply #698 on: 09/29/2017 09:29 AM »
Found this recent presentation given to RAL Space;

https://www.ralspace.stfc.ac.uk/Pages/MarkThomas-SABRE.pdf

Not heavy on detail but some new imagery;
Hmm, missed this at the time, but page 16 has an up-skirt shot of the Advanced Nozzle Test nozzle, showing the split bell (matching the recent animation), where (according to the patent) the annular air breathing combustion chamber uses the upper part of the rocket bell as the pintle for the E/D engine.

Offline knowles2

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)
« Reply #699 on: 10/03/2017 10:46 AM »
Good to progress on this project. With two new facilities being built. Hopefully the project will start to raise some serious capital after those are complete.


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