SpaceX's proposed Mars Transport ship is so big that it would a good habitat for the Moon base. It is a village in its own right. It should be available in the early 2020s. The Moon would also be a good place to give it a long term test.
"Should" being operative here.
SpaceX's proposed Mars Transport ship is so big that it would a good habitat for the Moon base.
The Moon would also be a good place to give it a long term test.
I don't think a vehicle optimized for zero-G habitation would be good for 1/6th-G habitation. And from what I've been able to discern the ITS is not meant for habitation on Mars, just the transportation to/from.
QuoteThe Moon would also be a good place to give it a long term test.Not sure why. There is no atmosphere to test the re-entry systems, and the dust on the Moon is more of a problem than the dust on Mars, so that just adds more complications.Musk is committed to Mars, so doing all of their testing AT Mars makes sense. Trying to use the Moon would just delay things and add costs.
Similarly, there will be a need to perform tests under low-gravity conditions, and 1/6G is a decent enough test environment for 1/3G;
Quote from: Bob Shaw on 10/21/2016 11:24 pmSimilarly, there will be a need to perform tests under low-gravity conditions, and 1/6G is a decent enough test environment for 1/3G; I mostly agree with your post. Those tests are necessary. I diagree with using the moon for gravity testing. Mars gravity is more than twice the gravity of the moon. They are not comparable and doing such tests has the risk of showing up problems which then are falsely extrapolated to Mars.I have suggested before that tests with mice could be done on MCT/ITS in centrifuges. Two levels in the same centrifuge could even give the data for Mars and moon in parallel. Times would be long enough that a full generation of mice could be conceived, born and raised to maturity and another generation. They have the space, they have the time, they have the people to do it during test of the ITS systems.
It allows testing of the landing system and surface EVA equipment in a vaguely Mars-esque environment. No air, low gravity, unprepared landing surface.
Reentry systems testing is less critical because that can be done so extensively at Earth
With the moon, the test rate would be constrained only by how often they can refurbish and launch, and they can pre-position a tanker or 2 in lunar orbit to provide additional fuel during early attempts to increase margins, then gradually reduce fuel margins and increase payload to be somewhat more representative of a Mars landing.
Testing landing at Mars after only doing it at Earth is a bad idea because it takes so long to do each test and theres less margin for an off-nominal landing.
Development costs to adapt ITS for lunar landings should be minimal (especially if the only goal is short duration test flights), and Mars windows are only every 26 months so they might as well take full advantage of the schedule gaps.
I do think they will take trips to the Moon and around it, especially in early testing, since that simulates deep space so much better than LEO does (i.e. radiation environments, thermal control, psychological, etc.).
As Musk mentioned their plan is to have fleets of ITS leaving for Mars at the same time when they are in full operation, but in the early testing phase I think they will be more focused on being able to land on Earth and learning how to live/survive in space - and I think that will take up a lot of time between synods. I could certainly be wrong, but I don't see where landing on our Moon provides them with valuable information about Earth-Mars transportation systems...
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 10/23/2016 07:18 pmAs Musk mentioned their plan is to have fleets of ITS leaving for Mars at the same time when they are in full operation, but in the early testing phase I think they will be more focused on being able to land on Earth and learning how to live/survive in space - and I think that will take up a lot of time between synods. I could certainly be wrong, but I don't see where landing on our Moon provides them with valuable information about Earth-Mars transportation systems...I have a hard time taking that literally. A fleet departing together means a fleet touching down together as well. They will need some spacing done, I would think.
<snip>As Musk mentioned their plan is to have fleets of ITS leaving for Mars at the same time when they are in full operation, but in the early testing phase I think they will be more focused on being able to land on Earth and learning how to live/survive in space - and I think that will take up a lot of time between synods. I could certainly be wrong, but I don't see where landing on our Moon provides them with valuable information about Earth-Mars transportation systems...