Author Topic: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.  (Read 36215 times)

Offline redliox

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1666
  • Arizona USA
  • Liked: 311
  • Likes Given: 54
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #180 on: 04/28/2017 05:29 PM »
Our effort must be oriented to get artificial gravity. The following presentation is

 a new approach to get  1 G gravity.

Ah, elevator modules!  :)

Specific downside: what if something jams?  :(
"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
-Tigatron

Offline Dalhousie

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2050
  • Liked: 249
  • Likes Given: 300
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #181 on: 04/30/2017 11:47 PM »
Are there any papers out there on the proposal yet?
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10752
  • Liked: 2274
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #182 on: 05/20/2017 05:53 PM »
http://www.businessinsider.com/spidersuit-mars-astronauts-lockheed-nasa-2017-5

Astronauts may wear eight-legged 'spider' spacesuits to crawl on the moons of Mars


    Dave Mosher
    May 19, 2017, 3:21 PM 4,693

When the first astronauts reach Mars in the 2030s, they'll never set foot on the planet's surface. Instead, NASA wants its plucky human crew to orbit the desert world for about a year, then return home.

But that doesn't mean astronauts couldn't explore Phobos or Deimos two tiny and intriguing moons of Mars.

Lockheed Martin, a company that's building NASA's Orion spaceship, recently put forth a tantalizing pitch for a sortie mission: Put astronauts inside an eight-legged, rocket-powered spacesuit that can crawl, walk, or hop across a moon's surface.
« Last Edit: 05/20/2017 10:51 PM by Blackstar »

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10752
  • Liked: 2274
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #183 on: 05/21/2017 12:06 PM »
Are there any papers out there on the proposal yet?


Here:

Offline Dalhousie

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2050
  • Liked: 249
  • Likes Given: 300
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #184 on: 05/21/2017 11:56 PM »
Are there any papers out there on the proposal yet?


Here:

Thank you!
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline redliox

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1666
  • Arizona USA
  • Liked: 311
  • Likes Given: 54
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #185 on: 05/22/2017 05:26 AM »
http://www.businessinsider.com/spidersuit-mars-astronauts-lockheed-nasa-2017-5

Astronauts may wear eight-legged 'spider' spacesuits to crawl on the moons of Mars


I like this aspect of the orbiting lab, but I'm split between whether something like the SEV could do a better and safer job than an astronaut in a MMU 2.0.

Also, the MMU was sadly short-lived.  After Challenger, like so much of the STS' programs, it was deemed risky as opposed to just using the robotic arm or tethered spacewalkers.  Despite being pretty iconic, it wasn't used again after 1984.  I point this out because, just like with wishing to repeat/reuse/refly old probe designs (lookn' at you Blackstar  ;) ), the parts if not the blueprints for the MMU don't exist anymore and I doubt the Smithsonian will be thrilled for NASA to recall a museum piece for dissection.

Using an SEV as opposed to the walker will be heavier, but then again the walker option requires an airlock module alongside it; coupled with the heavy fuel needs of the orbiter mission nothing is going to be lightweight in the end.

Anyone have any thoughts about using a SEV as opposed to a walker option?
"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
-Tigatron

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10752
  • Liked: 2274
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #186 on: 05/22/2017 03:48 PM »
Also, the MMU was sadly short-lived.  After Challenger, like so much of the STS' programs, it was deemed risky as opposed to just using the robotic arm or tethered spacewalkers.

I don't think it was simply the risk that led to the MMU's retirement, it was experience with the arm that demonstrated that the MMU was not really necessary.

Plus, the MMU was expensive to operate. I vaguely remember reading that it used one-time batteries that were very expensive. So they had better options and they chose them instead.

Offline lcasv

This arrangement do not consider artificial gravity. The effects of zero gravity are reversible after 500 day ?
Please check this arrangement

Offline MATTBLAK

  • Elite Veteran & 'J.A.F.A'
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3674
  • 'Space Cadets' Let us; UNITE!! (crickets chirping)
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 671
  • Likes Given: 1236
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #188 on: 06/08/2017 11:29 PM »
I think Phobos and Deimos exploration is an excellent idea - getting people out to Martian orbit to explore those moons and open the road to Mars is definitely a good thing...

...However, this seems to be just more grandiose, romantic Powerpoints that will end up not happening. Again.
« Last Edit: 06/10/2017 09:23 AM by MATTBLAK »
"Those who can't, Blog".   'Space Cadets' of the World - Let us UNITE!! (crickets chirping)

Offline redliox

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1666
  • Arizona USA
  • Liked: 311
  • Likes Given: 54
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #189 on: 06/09/2017 03:14 PM »
I think Phobos and Deimos exploration is an excellent idea - getting people out to Martian orbit to explore the Moon and open the road to Mars is definitely a good thing...

I like to think of these moons as the underdogs of the inner solar system.  :)

They're worthy of being visited at least once during Martian endeavors, so long as it can be accomplished with a reasonable budget and architecture...neither of which has been achieved yet.

...However, this seems to be just more grandiose, romantic Powerpoints that will end up not happening. Again.

Pretty much, so we may as well let this thread and Lockheed's delusions die.
"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
-Tigatron

Offline raketa

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 199
  • Liked: 34
  • Likes Given: 22
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #190 on: 06/09/2017 03:38 PM »
I think that to make GPS satellites network just for the landing side it means probably eight satellites will be enough to help ITs to land. iI think they'll deployed thisnetwork in the first try to make it mars

Offline lcasv

QUESTION:
IF WE ARE GOING TO GO TO OTHERS PLANET IN THE FUTURE, LIKE JUPITER OR SATURN, AND THE JOURNEY IS GOING TO TAKE MUCH MORE THAN MARS, IS  IS NOT BETTER TO ORIENT OUR EFFORTS TO GET A.G. SO THE HEALTH PROBLEM CAN BE SOLVED AND WE DO NOT HAVE TO EXERCISE EVERY DAY 2 HOURS ?
I THINK THE PROBLEM IS NOT TO GET THERE, THE PROBLEM IS TO GET HEALTH ALL THE TIME       

Online mike robel

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2053
  • Merritt Island, FL
  • Liked: 162
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #192 on: 06/11/2017 08:54 PM »
No shouting please.

Offline guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6246
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1547
  • Likes Given: 1325
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #193 on: 06/11/2017 09:30 PM »
I think that to make GPS satellites network just for the landing side it means probably eight satellites will be enough to help ITs to land. iI think they'll deployed thisnetwork in the first try to make it mars

I think India uses just three for coverage of India. They are at GEO but not equatorial and perform an 8 shape.

But a combination of earth based tracking until entry, then inertial, then a homing beacon for final approach will do initially.

Offline MATTBLAK

  • Elite Veteran & 'J.A.F.A'
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3674
  • 'Space Cadets' Let us; UNITE!! (crickets chirping)
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 671
  • Likes Given: 1236
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #194 on: 06/11/2017 09:39 PM »
Artificial Gravity is always made to look easy in science fiction - but for the forseeable future is going to be hard. It's quite a challenge to keep a large zero-g spacecraft stable at all times, let alone a presumably rotating structure. The non-spinning craft challenges are well-understood, but it's still a major design component. Deep space craft will likely have control movement gyroscope sets to mostly keep things under control, allied with RCS sets. The moment you start adding rotating structures to the mix, it starts to get complicated, structural engineering-wise and then the software complexity climbs, center of mass management issues are introduced, the dynamics of speeding up, slowing or even stopping your artificial G systems every time you have to spacecraft change velocity, etc.

How the spacecraft responds to perpendicular mass and torque issues, the crew movements inside the craft, movement of all fluids including coolants, propellants, waste management. How are the power systems going to be arranged, how big does the craft have to be to avoid coriolis effects on the crew, how much stress on the structure has to be managed on a daily basis as the craft's mass changes and subtly shifts.... And so on and so forth.

They are not insurmountable challenges and if you want to go deeper into space than Mars - they may become crucial. But they are difficult to assess and master. People have and still are writing Phds about this and very similar subject matters. The jury's not out - but at least it's a well-informed and well-qualified jury.

« Last Edit: 06/12/2017 10:12 AM by MATTBLAK »
"Those who can't, Blog".   'Space Cadets' of the World - Let us UNITE!! (crickets chirping)

Offline lcasv

MATTBLACK : SEE MY PROPOSAL REPLY 187 IN DITAIL. THKS 

Offline MATTBLAK

  • Elite Veteran & 'J.A.F.A'
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3674
  • 'Space Cadets' Let us; UNITE!! (crickets chirping)
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 671
  • Likes Given: 1236
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #196 on: 06/12/2017 12:31 AM »
It's apparent that you have a more than adequate grasp of the problems and challenges. But don't forget - the non pursuance of artificial gravity by major Space players - even SpaceX - is probably because they view it as being a real headache, engineering-wise. We cannot make the systems involved too complex. This will lead to complicated design and potentially enormous cost. I liked the 'Mars Direct' relatively simple approach of having the Transit Hab/Lander vehicle be attached by strong tether to the spent Upper Stage and having them rotate around the common center of mass. It mystifies me why this isn't being pursued or practiced more.

I'm not a trained engineer and certainly no artist. But for an incomplete Science Fiction novel I've been messing around with - I drew crude diagrams for a trio of deep Solar System exploration vehicles that are long truss structures with a nuclear-thermal rocket engine and propellant tanks at one end and a Habitat module after that; with a long truss in front of that module. There is a long pressurized tunnel running up the middle of the truss with a docking hub at the end. The truss has a set of sliding ballast - reason being is that after major delta-v maneuvers, the three craft dock with the hub and form a 'Y-shaped' structure that spin up after establishing the correct position of the mass-stabilizers. This structure would then spin through the heavens, generating maybe one-third of a G. The idea could be that 2, 3 or 4 craft could form the spinning structure.

However it ends up being done, for really long missions out beyond Mars I think it's a challenge that is going to have to be cracked in the long run. Other options include having a centrifuge that crew members can exercise in several times a week going to and fro from their destinations. It may not be necessary to make the whole ship a great big carnival ride!

EDIT: Try to not use all-capital letters in postings; it comes across in internet vocabulary/protocol as shouting. If you are at all sight-impaired, look up how to adjust your monitor settings to present things in an easier-to-read way. Or like me - just get a bigger monitor! :)
« Last Edit: 06/12/2017 12:34 AM by MATTBLAK »
"Those who can't, Blog".   'Space Cadets' of the World - Let us UNITE!! (crickets chirping)

Offline scienceguy

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 727
  • Lethbridge, Alberta
  • Liked: 61
  • Likes Given: 92
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #197 on: 06/12/2017 04:19 AM »
I think artificial gravity will only be researched seriously once we get a cheaper way of getting into orbit: i.e. by a space elevator or high temperature superconductors repelling against Earth's magnetic field, or, perhaps some company out there will demonstrate full reusability of rockets!
e^(pi)i = -1

Offline MATTBLAK

  • Elite Veteran & 'J.A.F.A'
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3674
  • 'Space Cadets' Let us; UNITE!! (crickets chirping)
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 671
  • Likes Given: 1236
Re: Lockheed Martin Orbiting Mars Laboratory discussion thread.
« Reply #198 on: 06/12/2017 05:53 AM »
I think you'll see fully reusable rockets loooong before you would see a space elevator in this planet's gravity well...
"Those who can't, Blog".   'Space Cadets' of the World - Let us UNITE!! (crickets chirping)