Author Topic: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3  (Read 95993 times)

Online whitelancer64

I wonder if Vulcan, since it will lack solids, will present a more benign environment. It would be funny if NASA would want to change to the newer launch vehicle (after the necessary trial period).

The Vulcan will be able to be fitted with up to six SRBs.

http://www.ulalaunch.com/products_vulcan.aspx
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Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #41 on: 05/12/2016 04:23 PM »
Weight problems eh? :o Now where have we seen this before?? ???
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Offline rcoppola

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #42 on: 05/12/2016 04:26 PM »
Weight problems eh? :o Now where have we seen this before?? ???
Yeh, I wasn't going there but Weight and Acoustics = Ares/Orion.
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Online PahTo

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #43 on: 05/12/2016 04:47 PM »
I wonder if Vulcan, since it will lack solids, will present a more benign environment. It would be funny if NASA would want to change to the newer launch vehicle (after the necessary trial period).

The Vulcan will be able to be fitted with up to six SRBs.

http://www.ulalaunch.com/products_vulcan.aspx

Not to speak for baldusi, but I suspect he refers to the expectation the Vulcan variant capable of lofting the CST-100 would not have (need for) SRMs.

Offline Ike17055

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #44 on: 05/12/2016 10:01 PM »
It is built to be able to fly on Falcon, but actually doing that defeats one of the major goals of the program: having better assurance of having a flying vehicle at all times by diversifying assets, not being vulnerable to a grounding on one launcher for instance.

Actually, it isn't. CST-100 was originally "launcher agnostic" but that is no longer the case. Boeing selected the Atlas V to launch the CST-100 back in 2011, and has designed it for that rocket since then.

http://www.ulalaunch.com/human-spaceflight-announcement--united.aspx

It would need, at the very least, an adapter section to fit on the Falcon 9 and be connected to its electronics.

It was designed to be adapted to delta, atlas or falcon. Key word is adapter. Yes, it currently relies on a launcher-specific adapter. To launch on another booster would indeed require a new adapter, as well as interface to the relevant emergency detection system of the booster. That's not an instant switchover, clearly, but that was never intended, nor did i state that as an option.  Boeing has said repeatedly that Atlas V is its "test vehicle" booster, and has reserved the ability to swap out a booster, as it presumably will when Vulcan arrives. I would guess it may well need a new adapter to whatever launcher, if any, replaces AtlasV, and eventually as the follow-on to Centaur rolls out.


Offline erioladastra

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #45 on: 05/13/2016 12:31 AM »
From the original report on Geek Wire: http://www.geekwire.com/2016/boeing-starliner-schedule-astronauts-slips-2018/

They listed another item, "In addition, NASA software updates have added more work for developers."

Software updated to what, for what? Human rating Atlas and the integration of the two vehicles WRT abort? Human Interface designs/control? Is this specific to Boeing or a Program wide request?

Mass and Acoustics? Isn't it a bit late to be hitting against these requirements? So it seems the un-crewed test flight will be pushed to the end of the year where the crewed test flight was supposed to be.

Combination of things.  For example, the interface control document between the vehicles was only draft at the time of the contract letting.  It was not finalized until recently which impacted the providers to code that area and begin testing - which was supposed to soon.  The NASA docking System documents were also not finalized until very recently.  Requirements have also continued to evolve with new ones being added.  Then you add in issues which you hope won't occur/know where they will occur during development like acoustics. 

Online yg1968

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #46 on: 05/15/2016 03:49 PM »
Weight problems eh? :o Now where have we seen this before?? ???
Yeh, I wasn't going there but Weight and Acoustics = Ares/Orion.

I wonder if the CST-100 is also too heavy for its parachutes.
« Last Edit: 05/16/2016 05:39 PM by yg1968 »

Offline The Amazing Catstronaut

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #47 on: 05/15/2016 04:20 PM »
/
Weight problems eh? :o Now where have we seen this before?? ???
Yeh, I wasn't going there but Weight and Acoustics = Ares/Orion.

I wonder if the CST-100 is also too heavy for its parachutes.

How did it get that heavy? It seems like an extremely basic miscalculation.
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Online TrevorMonty

LAS would be the most affected by an increase in weight. No simple fix either as service module would need more thrust (additional engines) and fuel, both would increase weight again.

At least Atlas has option of extra SRBs. 

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #49 on: 05/15/2016 05:25 PM »
LAS would be the most affected by an increase in weight. No simple fix either as service module would need more thrust (additional engines) and fuel, both would increase weight again.

At least Atlas has option of extra SRBs.
Add an extra SRB and all the design analysis must be redone:
1) structural forces analysis
2) acoustic/vibration analysis
3) abort escape scenarios acceleration requirements during SRB burn
4) launch trajectory design

Basically almost a complete redo of the CDR.

Offline jacqmans

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #50 on: 06/06/2016 10:36 AM »
The upper dome of a Boeing Starliner spacecraft inside the company’s Commercial Crew and Cargo Processing Facility at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The upper dome is part of Spacecraft 1, a Starliner that will perform a pad abort flight test as part of the development process of the spacecraft in partnership with NASA’s Commercial Crew Program. The Starliner is designed to carry up to four astronauts to the International Space Station for commercial crew missions.
Photo credit: Amber Watson

Offline slavvy

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #51 on: 06/06/2016 10:55 AM »
A dumb question: is the dome part on the pictures machined out a single block of aluminium or is it welded from several pieces?

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #52 on: 06/06/2016 12:49 PM »
I like how each port or other attachment area that is symmetrical about an axis has an indexing hole to ensure proper part alignment...
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Offline catdlr

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #53 on: 06/06/2016 04:09 PM »
Starliner Elements Arrive for Spacecraft 1

NASAKennedy

Published on Jun 6, 2016
The upper dome of a Boeing Starliner spacecraft arrived at the company’s Commercial Crew and Cargo Processing Facility at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The upper dome is part of Spacecraft 1, a Starliner that will perform a pad abort flight test as part of the development process of the spacecraft in partnership with NASA’s Commercial Crew Program. The Starliner is designed to carry up to four astronauts to the International Space Station for commercial crew missions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3G-KIuzguY?t=001



Tony De La Rosa

Offline arachnitect

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #54 on: 06/06/2016 09:48 PM »
A dumb question: is the dome part on the pictures machined out a single block of aluminium or is it welded from several pieces?

no welds.

They form a single piece of aluminum into the rough shape, then machine it the rest of the way.

CST-100 pressure vessels are made by Spincraft.

Offline arachnitect

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #55 on: 06/09/2016 02:45 AM »
From a NASA blog post: http://www.nasa.gov/feature/2016-advances-mark-commercial-crews-path-to-flight

Quote
Later this year, Boeing will test parachute components to be used on Starliner flights, in a series of progressively more flight-like drop tests, including high-altitude boilerplate releases from balloons.

Has anyone ever done drop tests like this via balloon before?

Offline GClark

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #56 on: 06/10/2016 09:48 AM »
Has anyone ever done drop tests like this via balloon before?

Mercury and Vostok both did balloon drop tests.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #57 on: 06/10/2016 04:24 PM »
So did Viking EDL around 1973, because Mars atmosphere is kind of Earth 90 000 ft high, and balloons were a cheap way to get there.

Online gongora

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #58 on: 06/27/2016 01:54 AM »
Apparently Boeing willl be toting around a 3.8M Ku-band antenna for their recovery ops...

FCC Filing by Boeing
Quote
File Number: SES-STA-INTR2016-01453
Description: Special Temporary Authority Request to initiate operations to support communications command and control for recovery operations for the Commercial Crew Transportation System (CCTS).

another FCC filing
Quote
File Number: SES-LIC-20160426-00373
Description: To provide communications Command and Control (CCISR) for 2 (ea) temporary fixed ground stations operating in the US during recovery operations.
« Last Edit: 06/27/2016 01:57 AM by gongora »

Offline arachnitect

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #59 on: 06/27/2016 04:30 PM »
Training and simulator news:

Reach for the STAR: New facility houses upgraded Starliner training devices
Quote
Just like the North Star, Boeing’s new Space Training, Analysis and Review Facility, also known as STAR, will serve as a guide for explorers. The opening of the facility on June 21 is the latest step for Boeing as it prepares to transport NASA astronauts to the International Space Station aboard the Crew Space Transportation (CST)-100 Starliner spacecraft.

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